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Old 06-04-2008, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat420 View Post
Did you happen to see the Chiefs OL last year?

Barry Sanders in his prime would have had trouble behind that line.

LJ has had 1315 less carries then the best RB in the NFL LT no way is LJ done is he still top five that is up for debate but to say he is done is a bit much.
false

Barry Sanders doesn't need a line, the ref just hands him the ball and let's him have at it...and yet he is still 3rd in yardage
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by OSUGiants17 View Post
How is Bradshaw not on that list?
woah, didn't even notice that first time i read it. huge oversight IMO, should be around #40.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
A great RB produces no matter what his situation is, he just produces more with help. See: Frank Gore
So Frank Gore would have threw off the three players that meet LJ in the back field the second he got the snap?
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat420 View Post
Did you happen to see the Chiefs OL last year?

Barry Sanders in his prime would have had trouble behind that line.

LJ has had 1315 less carries then the best RB in the NFL LT no way is LJ done is he still top five that is up for debate but to say he is done is a bit much.
It's not a matter of total carries, it's a matter of intensity of carries. 400 carries in one season is exponentially more damaging than 300 carries a season for 4 years, even though the latter will have 3 times as many carries, the former will be much worse off.

No one survives a 400 carry season. Why do you think LJ is special, especially after he's already begun to break down?
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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Jerious Norwood behind DeAngelo Williams and Warrick Dunn?! Preposterous.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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No one survives a 400 carry season. Why do you think LJ is special, especially after he's already begun to break down?
Last year was the first time he has got hurt in the NFL I would not call that breaking down.

He has had all of the off season and half of last season to rest up all the talk from camp is he is full go and looking great.

I'm not saying he will be a pro bowler but if Jamal Lewis can have three 1000 yard seasons after his 2000 yard season and 387 carries I don't see why LJ can't?
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat420 View Post
Last year was the first time he has got hurt in the NFL I would not call that breaking down.
Weak performance combined with a wear and tear injury is classic evidence of breaking down.

Quote:
He has had all of the off season and half of last season to rest up all the talk from camp is he is full go and looking great.

I'm not saying he will be a pro bowler but if Jamal Lewis can have three 1000 yard seasons after his 2000 yard season and 387 carries I don't see why LJ can't?
Because Jamal Lewis and LJ are essentially the same age, but Lewis' 387 carry season came 3 years beforehand, and he really just got back to being a good starter this past season. With LJ, that translates to the 2010 season. At that point, he'll be fighting history by winding up on the wrong side of 30.

Then there's the fact that 416 carries is uncharted territory, but no one with over 400 carries was ever gone back to form, although Eric Dickerson got back to being great, he was never trancendent like he was in his early career, and he still dealt with multiple injuries. Every one else never got above mediocre afterwords.

You're a Chiefs fan, and you're trying to grasp at the hope that LJ will buck history and save your season. It's irrational love, the same that drives Dolphins fans into believing that Ronnie Brown will be the same explosive runner he was last season. But you need to come to terms with the fact that it isn't going to happen.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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because his career as an effective starter is for all intents and purposes over?
I'm sorry, what? Back to back 1700+ seasons and he got injured and his career is over? Give me a break.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Weak performance combined with a wear and tear injury is classic evidence of breaking down.



Because Jamal Lewis and LJ are essentially the same age, but Lewis' 387 carry season came 3 years beforehand, and he really just got back to being a good starter this past season. With LJ, that translates to the 2010 season. At that point, he'll be fighting history by winding up on the wrong side of 30.

Then there's the fact that 416 carries is uncharted territory, but no one with over 400 carries was ever gone back to form, although Eric Dickerson got back to being great, he was never trancendent like he was in his early career, and he still dealt with multiple injuries. Every one else never got above mediocre afterwords.

You're a Chiefs fan, and you're trying to grasp at the hope that LJ will buck history and save your season. It's irrational love, the same that drives Dolphins fans into believing that Ronnie Brown will be the same explosive runner he was last season. But you need to come to terms with the fact that it isn't going to happen.
I'm sorry, do you even know how he got injured? It wasn't wear and tear. He was tackled from behind by AJ Hawk and Hawk landed on his foot. That is an injury anyone would be hurt from. Why is it that LJs career is now over because of it?

I also love the argument about his 416 carry season and the fact no one has been as good as they were before. That automatically means his career is over. Lets just release him now. There is no hope for him.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry, what? Back to back 1800+ seasons and he got injured and his career is over? Give me a break.
LJ never topped 1800 yards.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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So Frank Gore would have threw off the three players that meet LJ in the back field the second he got the snap?
I don't know if you noticed, but Frank Gores offensive line was just as bad as LJ's and his passing game was worse. Frank also played most of the season on a sprained ankle. Yet he still put up very respectable numbers....THAT is what a great RB does.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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LJ never topped 1800 yards.
Oops, I meant to type 1700. It's fixed! :)
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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This list all credibility by ranking a ROOKIE, especially that high. If your a rookie you start at the bottom, you are worse than everyone, your college stats dont count for anything, all you have in the stat collumn is big goose eggs.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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By the way, it's not hard to see why people look at Larry Johnson with some doubt. Runners who top 400 rushing attempts in a season have dubious results afterwards. Jamaal Anderson managed to top 1000 yards two seasons after he ran the ball 410 times, but with a 3.6 YPC average, and the season right after that was his last in the NFL. James Wilder ran the ball 407 times but only managed 1544 yards, managed 1300 yards the next year, and never completed a full NFL season again. The great Eric Dickerson ran the ball 404 times, missed time the next season, posted another great year, and then was never healthy enough to play a full 16 games again.

Does this mean Larry Johnson is doomed? Absolutely not. But he looked the worse I've ever seen him last year. He looked like he had lost a step. And while some may claim that his injury was a chance, all injuries are related to stress you put on your ligaments. If Larry Johnson comes back and has a full career with many more seasons that would warrant placing him as a top five runner, he will be the first guy to ever do so. So people have a right to be worried.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Oh yeah...#12 & #43 for Baltimore =D.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry, what? Back to back 1800+ seasons and he got injured and his career is over? Give me a break.
Read my earlier posts. As good as LJ is, he's only human..

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Originally Posted by vidae-KC View Post
I'm sorry, do you even know how he got injured? It wasn't wear and tear. He was tackled from behind by AJ Hawk and Hawk landed on his foot. That is an injury anyone would be hurt from. Why is it that LJs career is now over because of it?

I also love the argument about his 416 carry season and the fact no one has been as good as they were before. That automatically means his career is over. Lets just release him now. There is no hope for him.
When I mean not as good as before, I mean, Dickerson aside, the best of them was Eddie George in twilight. That's the best case scenario for LJ at this point, you might get 1,100 yards out of him, but it's going to be on below 4.0 yards per carry, think LJ or Shaun Alexander before the injuries this season. That's the future. Worst case? Jamal Anderson, out of the league in three seasons, and he was younger than LJ too.

Let's look at it like this, ignoring the injury, can you honestly say that LJ looked the same as he did in 05 and 06? Even without the blocking issues on the line, did he show the same CoD, the same explosion, the same top end speed as he did during his previous years? Hell no.

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James Wilder ran the ball 407 times but only managed 1544 yards, managed 1300 yards the next year
It's worth noting that Wilder only managed 3.6 ypc the 1985 season.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:26 PM    (permalink
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you guys should start voting http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/for...ad.php?t=23008
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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Read my earlier posts. As good as LJ is, he's only human..



When I mean not as good as before, I mean, Dickerson aside, the best of them was Eddie George in twilight. That's the best case scenario for LJ at this point, you might get 1,100 yards out of him, but it's going to be on below 4.0 yards per carry, think LJ or Shaun Alexander before the injuries this season. That's the future. Worst case? Jamal Anderson, out of the league in three seasons, and he was younger than LJ too.

Let's look at it like this, ignoring the injury, can you honestly say that LJ looked the same as he did in 05 and 06? Even without the blocking issues on the line, did he show the same CoD, the same explosion, the same top end speed as he did during his previous years? Hell no.



It's worth noting that Wilder only managed 3.6 ypc the 1985 season.
I will agree that LJ did not look at good as he did the year before, but without being a homer, it was the offensive line.

You have Roaf and Shields anchoring your line and LJ has great seasons. Roaf retires, LJ has a great season. Shields retires, garbage. The offensive line is very important for every runner; some do more with bad ones than others do, but they're important. We gave up a ton of sacks, couldn't run the balls.. was that LJs fault? Not completely, no. With a fixed line, I honestly think you will see LJ return to form. That's all I'm saying.

It might not happen, but he hasn't played football very long, he has one big injury (that was sort of a freak injury) and our offensive line is being rebuilt. I hardly think his career is over, not by a long shot. That was my argument!
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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Jaguars > All

But seriously, Maurice Jones-Drew "can't block consistently"? Tell that to Merriman.

And Fred Taylor is (currently) >>> Addai.
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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How does Larry Johnson go from top 3 back in many peoples minds to not even top seven in one year?
well, the fact that he ran like a little girl last year doesn't help his cause. The first half of the season, he was basically a one man to take him down guy.....combine that with his poorer offensive line not opening a whole lot of holes, we were able to see his lack of shake and bake to avoid tacklers. Then the injuries played into him not having good production. Welcome to the world of what have u done for me lately. Its not just LJ that this happens to, it happens to players at all positions. He has to prove he is healthy and that he is capable behind an average line and that $ hasn't gone to his head
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JT Jag View Post
And Fred Taylor is (currently) >>> Addai.
The overkill of equality signs makes you look bad. :D

Let's not forget this is from ESPN's Scouts Inc., guys. Put bluntly, they suck.
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:51 AM    (permalink
JT Jag
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The overkill of equality signs makes you look bad. :D

Let's not forget this is from ESPN's Scouts Inc., guys. Put bluntly, they suck.
You gotta admit. Addai is a system player, a poor-man's Edgerrin James. Addai is a straight-line runner who doesn't have much power or burst. His only worthwhile trait is that he can log a lot of carries without injury.

He's a better blocker then Fred, too. But Freddy, even if he's no longer a 25-carry-a-game guy, is just a difference-maker.
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Old 06-05-2008, 01:00 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't call Addai a system player, I think that term applies to a different situation (say Tatum Bell in Denver), but definitely he benefits playing in the system/offense. It's a great situation for him.

But I'm not sure there's anyone else in the league I'd rather have on a third down than Addai. He's a great pass protector and has a knack for just getting to the marker. And let's not overlook that just because he plays with Manning, that the finesse offensive line is built to pass protect. Now that Jake Scott is gone and the Colts have drafted some bigger/better prospects to replace aging Jeff Saturday though, hopefully that will change.
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Old 06-05-2008, 01:34 AM    (permalink
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Willie Parker doesn't have the size to carry the load?

Did they forget last season? The guy was the leading carries and yardage leader to a freak accident. It wasn't like he tore a ligament/muscle.. he broke his fibula.

How he's not top 10 is mind boggling.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:09 AM    (permalink
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I will agree that LJ did not look at good as he did the year before, but without being a homer, it was the offensive line.

You have Roaf and Shields anchoring your line and LJ has great seasons. Roaf retires, LJ has a great season. Shields retires, garbage. The offensive line is very important for every runner; some do more with bad ones than others do, but they're important. We gave up a ton of sacks, couldn't run the balls.. was that LJs fault? Not completely, no. With a fixed line, I honestly think you will see LJ return to form. That's all I'm saying.
So you say it's exclusively the line? Then you know what that makes LJ? It makes him what people think Shaun Alexander is. And it doesn't help your cause that Kolby Smith performed better than LJ did, last season, even though LJ thoroughly outplayed his backups in 05 and 06. If you need two potential hall of famers on your line to play well, then you aren't a great running back. LJ was a great running back, but he's not the same back anymore.

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It might not happen, but he hasn't played football very long, he has one big injury (that was sort of a freak injury) and our offensive line is being rebuilt. I hardly think his career is over, not by a long shot. That was my argument!
Comming off his 416 carry 2006 season LJ had 892 carries, and was 28 years old.

Coming off his 410 carry 1998 season, Jamal Anderson had 973 carries, and was 27 years old, he was out of the league in 3 seasons.

coming off his 407 carry 1984 season, James Wilder had 758 carries, and was 27 years old, he was never a decent starter again.

Coming off his 404 carry 1986 season, Eric Dickerson had 1,465 carries, and was 27 years old, he went from the best running back the league had ever seen, to merely a very good running back.

Coming off his 403 carry 2000 season, Eddie George had 1,767 carries, and was 28 years old. He was reduced to a soulless husk of a player who never broke 3.5 ypc again.

Coming off his 397 carry 1985 season, Gerald Riggs had 928 carries, and was 26 years old. He had one season scraping the bottom of mediocrity in 1986, and was never a decent player again.

Coming off his 392 carry 2003 season, Ricky Williams had 1,589 carries, and was 27 years old. You know what happened next.

Coming off his 392 carry 1998 season, Terrell Davis had 1,343 carries, and was 27 years old. He was out of the league three injury crushed seasons later.

I'm not talking about old mofos on the wrong side of 30. Of the running backs who went over 390 carries LJ is the oldest. several of them had very similar number of career carries, but the career carries aren't as important as peak carries.
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