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Old 02-28-2007, 11:53 AM    (permalink
D-Unit
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Default Why cornerback?

Can somebody explain to me the high desire for CB in Round 1? I just don't see it as a Need to Have. It's more like a Nice to Have. Is it time to replace Henry or Newman? Are we that concerned with depth? Are we talking spending the pick on Nickel back? I agree that value will be there, but is that all? I'm ready and willing to be convinced if your points make sense. Thank you.
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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More likely than not Henry is moving to FS. So, there in lies the need for a CB.
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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More likely than not Henry is moving to FS. So, there in lies the need for a CB.
Jerry said it himself that Henry is more than likely staying at corner. But ok... you're saying it's based off that assumption? Anything else?
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Jerry said it himself that Henry is more than likely staying at corner. But ok... you're saying it's based off that assumption? Anything else?
He said he was trying to resist the urge to move him to safety.

Quote:
"We know it's been written possibly moving Henry to safety," Jones said. "But, when I evaluated it as we've gone along the last few weeks and months, that might be hard to do because he had a lot of snaps in there, got pretty tired near the end so that may not be the best way to use his ability. His cornerback skills are very good, and it's not a given at all that that move is there."

Still, if the Cowboys acquire a top corner, and there are several in the draft, it might be a situation he revisits, Jones said.
I guess you could say, I'm basing my reasoning on assumption but, I still think the move will happen. He hasnt completly shut the door on it, i'm hoping it happens. I guy like Meriweather could really help with that versatility.

Also, it is easy as a cowboys fan/observer to go CB or Safety in the draft. What other need can we actually address at 22? (WR is a want more than a need IMO)
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Old 02-28-2007, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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To me it's based on several factors.

The first is that Other than LT and QB, CB and DE / WOLB's have the most impact on a team and thus command the highest prices / are the most scarce.

The second is that since, FA's of high caliber at CB are so expensive, you have to build that position through the draft more often than not. Therefore, since the value is there at 22 for CB, but not at LT or QB or WOLB for us, it makes the most sense to draft one at that spot.

Third is that unlike say OL, a backup CB will get significant playing time. CB's play ST, may or may not be able to return punts / kickoffs, they can play in the nickle or as a starter if a change to Henry's position were to be made.

Fourth is that unlike say OL or even DL or some other positions, high quality CBs typically are early draft picks. This is because, although technique is important, speed is not something you can coach up. You just don't find alot of guys running 4.4 or less in the second day of the draft.

Last is that DB's make up almost 40% of your defense and in many cases a DB can play several positions. WOLB for instance plays ONE position. Versatility is always valuable. (ALSO do not forget that DB is the position in the NFL with the second most injuries **RB being the most likely to be injured). This means you can never have too many quality DBs, but you can have too many quality QB, WOLB or LT's.
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Old 02-28-2007, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Exactly, we have NO need for a CB. I agree with you 100% D. Henry is satying, there for no need. Day 2 if anything. Although if anyone I would take Chris Houston, I love that kid. Henry is still in his prime, 30 is still young for a CB, and Newman is still pretty young, although he is 29, he has plenty of pro-bowl years left, atleast 5. If we take a D-Back in round 1 it better be Reggie Nelson. End of stroy.
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Exactly, we have NO need for a CB. I agree with you 100% D. Henry is satying, there for no need. Day 2 if anything. Although if anyone I would take Chris Houston, I love that kid. Henry is still in his prime, 30 is still young for a CB, and Newman is still pretty young, although he is 29, he has plenty of pro-bowl years left, atleast 5. If we take a D-Back in round 1 it better be Reggie Nelson. End of stroy.
TNewFan41, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having to read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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How? You make no sense.

I said if we took any CB, I would like Chris Houston. Although we shouldn't take one at all because we DON'T NEED ONE. How does that make no sense?
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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How? You make no sense.

I said if we took any CB, I would like Chris Houston. Although we shouldn't take one at all because we DON'T NEED ONE. How does that make no sense?
We need a more physical press CB for Phillips' 3-4. I have said over and over. Henry is the perfect man to slide over and play the centerfiled position becuse of his height and coverage skills. Plus Watkins can develop even further. Watkins will be learning a new defense in only his second year, essentially making him a rookie again. Henry has the awareness to slide over and learn the new defense and help Watkins along the way. That is why we NEED an NFL ready press corner like Hall, Ross, or Revis in the first round to step in and start next season. Now the rookie CB will have Aaron Glenn to tutor him along during training camp. Theres no sense in keeping Glenn and Henry together at the same position, with a total of 21 years of NFL experience. And meanwhile(like you said we draft Reggie Nelson to play FS), we have a total of 1 year of NFL experience between Watkins and a rookie safety like Nelson. Does not make sense. Any questions?
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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We don't NEED a CB. I don't care about Watkins. Nelson is a beast. If we pick a DB in round 1, it should be Nelson.
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Old 02-28-2007, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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We don't NEED a CB. I don't care about Watkins. Nelson is a beast. If we pick a DB in round 1, it should be Nelson.
What do you mean you dont care about Watkins? That is the mose unintelligent post I have ever seen. We have to make something of last years draft. Watkins has the potential to be a starter someday under the right tutelage. You can't let your love for one prospect disrupt the process of building a powerhouse defense. Not intelligent.
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Old 02-28-2007, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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To me it's based on several factors.

The first is that Other than LT and QB, CB and DE / WOLB's have the most impact on a team and thus command the highest prices / are the most scarce.

The second is that since, FA's of high caliber at CB are so expensive, you have to build that position through the draft more often than not. Therefore, since the value is there at 22 for CB, but not at LT or QB or WOLB for us, it makes the most sense to draft one at that spot.

Third is that unlike say OL, a backup CB will get significant playing time. CB's play ST, may or may not be able to return punts / kickoffs, they can play in the nickle or as a starter if a change to Henry's position were to be made.

Fourth is that unlike say OL or even DL or some other positions, high quality CBs typically are early draft picks. This is because, although technique is important, speed is not something you can coach up. You just don't find alot of guys running 4.4 or less in the second day of the draft.

Last is that DB's make up almost 40% of your defense and in many cases a DB can play several positions. WOLB for instance plays ONE position. Versatility is always valuable. (ALSO do not forget that DB is the position in the NFL with the second most injuries **RB being the most likely to be injured). This means you can never have too many quality DBs, but you can have too many quality QB, WOLB or LT's.
Here's my point of view...

In regards to your first point, I can accept the rationale there. I would also include RB as a high impact position with high costs tied to the position. But that's besides the point. I agree with you about a cornerback's impact and expense. What I want to point out is that we are already at that point. We already have invested a lot of money into the position with Henry. He's got the big contract. We already have spent big time first round pick money on Newman and he's due for another big extention after this season. We're at the point where we are in the prime of receiving a return on our investment. If we didn't have a big FA signing (Henry) or a first round pick investment (Newman), then yeah, I could see us using our first pick on a CB. But by selecting another first round pick on CB, when we have already invested a lot, we are divying up more resources than I think we need to or can afford to. It's too big of a chunk out of the pie in this salary cap age.

You second point is similar to your first point in regards to expense and commanding high prices... but in regards to limiting those positions as being first round draft worthy because of impact, I would have to slightly disagree once again. Yes, they are worthy, but no, it should not be limited to them. I think that an impact player can come from any position. It really depends on the skill level of the player and his fit in the team's scheme and his role/playing time. ...and Safety can certainly fit in that mix of being first round worthy. Look at Bob Sanders impact with the Colts... Troy Polamalu - Steelers, Rodney Harrison -Pats, John Lynch - Tampa, Ed Reed - Baltimore... all of whom were huge impacts on their SB winning teams and still are for the most part... In the past teams were able to find good safeties in the second round and beyond, but today's NFL is different and so must our mindset on the position change as well. It can't be so cookie cutter that we just say, here are the positions that deserve a first round pick. If you got a chance to get a big time playmaker, you take him because he will provide an impact.

As to your third point, I get that back up corners get a decent amount of playing time, but mostly every back up has a role on special teams or they simply don't suit up. Do they really get more playing time than say a guy in a RB by committee? more than a #3 WR? more than along the DL? LB? I really think that the positions that don't get a lot of rotation during the games are QB and OL... other than that, guys are running in and out of games pretty frequently. ...and one thing I'd have to say is that in the last few years where we've had Jacquez Reeves and Nate Jones sitting on the sidelines, they really haven't gotten that much playing time unless Henry was injured. Glenn got a lot of PT at Nickel Back... but we shouldn't be spending our first round pick on a Nickel Back.

#4, I agree you can't teach speed, but look at the guys who are projected in Round 3 or later... Johnathan Wade (4.36), Fred Bennett (4.46), Tarrell Brown (4.45), David Irons (4.44), DeAndre Jackson (4.49), CJ Gattis (4.45)... Even Round 2 guys like McCauley, Josh Wilson, Eric Wright ran just as fast if not faster than the Round 1 projected prospects.... You just don't have to draft a corner in Round 1 to make sure you get a fast guy.

5th... well... can't injuries occur at any position? It's good to have depth everywhere. I'm all for adding depth to corner... but not with a first round pick investment.

So that said, I'm still not convinced that we have to go corner with our first pick.
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Old 02-28-2007, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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D-Unit,

I agree with alot of what you are saying. I'm inclined to still disagree based on the notion that at 22 there is alot of value at CB, more so than at any other position for the Dallas Cowboys. By value I mean I think the CB talent will be better than at S. I also think the difference between a good corner and an average corner affects your team more than the difference between a good safety and an average safety.

And yes, injuries can happen at any position. But, historically they happen to a greater degree to DB's than any other position than RB.

Truth be told, I don't think that ANY player we draft at 22 is going to start on day 1. I think for that reason, we should draft the BPA UNLESS it's at a position of strength and youth for us. Those positions are RB, QB and arguably DE. I say DE because we have 3 young guys who are all physically talented enough to play the position. They may just not be as developed as we need. To me the BPA will be a CB. Now, things change and FA may adress this as could a player dropping in the draft could change things. But as of right now, CB makes the most sense to me.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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TNewFan41, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having to read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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Old 02-28-2007, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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I Agree with D-UNIT 100 friggin %. CB is far down my list on needs. Reggie Nelson or bust.
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Old 02-28-2007, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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I Agree with D-UNIT 100 friggin %. CB is far down my list on needs. Reggie Nelson or bust.
I don't mind CB after round 1.
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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Here's my question. What position do you want other than Safety?
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Old 03-01-2007, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Here's my question. What position do you want other than Safety?
I, Myself would want(in order):
OG
WR
K
CB/OT

Now of course if we take care of some of these in FA, then CB would be...Slightly more attractive in the 1st.
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Old 03-01-2007, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Paul View Post
I, Myself would want(in order):
OG
WR
K
CB/OT

Now of course if we take care of some of these in FA, then CB would be...Slightly more attractive in the 1st.
I think drafting a Wr is pointless and I dont see us going Guard because, we the team is already talking about signing such vets as Leonard Davis or Steinbach. I'd be pretty surprised if we dont go CB or S. Lets say Hall fell to 22, you wouldnt want us to take him?
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Old 03-01-2007, 12:53 AM    (permalink
bigmac076
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I think drafting a Wr is pointless and I dont see us going Guard because, we the team is already talking about signing such vets as Leonard Davis or Steinbach. I'd be pretty surprised if we dont go CB or S. Lets say Hall fell to 22, you wouldnt want us to take him?
I would take Hall at 22, no question. that is a steal. Its a fact that Hall is not a popular guy on this board, because in the Fantasy Off-Season Mock Draft, he actuallly DID fall to us at #22, with the Giants taking Ross as the first CB. Too bad in real life, NFL team scouts won't be as ignorant to let him slide that far.
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Old 03-01-2007, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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I would take Hall at 22, no question. that is a steal.
If Brady Quinn is there, I would take him too.
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:07 AM    (permalink
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There is actually a possibility that Hall could fall. Either him or Revis could see himself slipping in this draft. Of course, I was speaking hypothetically before.

In all honesty, I cant see any other pick other than S or Cb that makes any sense. We're already looking at FA guards, We have some nice youth at WR... in Crayton, Austin, and Hurd. (Wasnt a problem area last season either) Say a guy like Levi is some how available, I could see us passing on him... Flozell still has got a few years left in the tank and we're about to lock up Colombo. We're stacked at LB, there is no NT worth taking in the first, and with Spears, Canty, and Hatcher a 1st DE would be another wasted selection. It has to be Corner or Safety.
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:18 AM    (permalink
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I think drafting a Wr is pointless and I dont see us going Guard because, we the team is already talking about signing such vets as Leonard Davis or Steinbach. I'd be pretty surprised if we dont go CB or S. Lets say Hall fell to 22, you wouldnt want us to take him?
Oh I want a safety, thats for sure. But he asked what other position other then S would we want in the 1st. But If Hall and Nelson were still on the board at 22, It's all about Nelson for me.

As for WR, I'm not in love with Miles and Hurd as others are. IF we could get Allison, C Davis and etc in the 1st day, I'm all for that.
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Old 03-01-2007, 02:41 AM    (permalink
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Here's my question. What position do you want other than Safety?
Easy. OLB. Easy. There should be some outstanding players available for us at that position. Jarvis Moss would be a tremendous pick up for us. Moss on one side and Ware on the other would be absolutely sssssssssick! Oooooohhhwee!! If he's not there, we could find great value if Anthony Spencer or Charles Johnson are on the board. I highly doubt all 3 will be gone.

Greg Ellis is in the twighlight of his career, coming off season ending injury, fresh off learning a new position. Fact of the matter is our season tanked when he went down because we had no answer there. Even if he's ready for the beginning of the season, Moss will have some time to groom behind him.

Carpenter's role should continue to be inside. He's got a year under his belt at the position and his skill set is suited nicely inside. I expect him to be able to give us the blitz pressure up the middle on passing downs and be able to stuff the run while withstanding constant hitting. His instincts, range and ability to shed blockers makes him a nice fit at Strong Side Inside Linebacker.

So if not Safety? SOLB. ...and I wouldn't be upset with Tyler either.
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Old 03-01-2007, 02:54 AM    (permalink
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I guess that's where we differ. I think that Bobby Carpenter is the SOLB. I see no other reason why. If he's not, then why did we draft him last year?

If we want speed inside I think Burnett should move inside more than Carp. I think an OLB would be a waste of a pick in the first round.

I don't see how you can say that we're better off at CB than at OLB. None of our starting LB's is over 30 (Assuming either Carp or Burnett is the starter next year) and 2 of our top 3 CB's are 30+.
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