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Old 07-07-2008, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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I disagree. I've seen Jackson play and his accuracy leaves a lot left to be desired. Alex Smith's pocket presence is the only huge issue I've seen wrong with him. His decision making isn't great, but it's not that bad. Jackson's is terrible in my opinion.


Jackson is not a good QB. At all. But Alex Smith is in no way any better, he is horrible. He has been given more than enough chances. His pocket presence is his only issue? HA!
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Old 07-07-2008, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Jackson is not a good QB. At all. But Alex Smith is in no way any better, he is horrible. He has been given more than enough chances. His pocket presence is his only issue? HA!
Didn't smith have 4 OCs in 4 years? If so, then I understand why he would have some trouble, if stuff keeps changing on him. Eli had that as well. We had an idiot for the first 2 years, and finally fired him, only to have Gilbride take over. This year will be the 2nd full year where we have good coordinators.

Smith needs to step up and show something, but I can't totally fault him because he needs consistency in one system.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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People are quick to bash Smith and call him horrible, oh how fast people forget how well Norv Turner had him playing with Antonio Bryant a few years ago...If he was still working under Norv, with a respectable target like he had in Bryant, I don't think he would be catching as much flack.


Obviously he has struggled but he has shown flashes, and thats all you can ask out of a young QB, things were really clicking for him with Norv, and the constant instability he has had around him shows...I don't know if he gets back to that level or not, but its way too early to write him off, this was not that long ago he was playing really well and alot of people were back on his bandwagon.
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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When he had a solid receiver (Bryant is so underrated) he was a good player.

If his cast finally clicks like the Browns last year he could surprise imo.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Jackson is not a good QB. At all. But Alex Smith is in no way any better, he is horrible. He has been given more than enough chances. His pocket presence is his only issue? HA!
Yeah unless you'd call a horrible offensive line (opposed to Jackson's superb one), an inept offensive coordinator (4th in 4 years), and a shoulder injury issues. I'm not here to make excuses because I'm one of those fans that if losing patience with Smith but to say Jackson is better than Smith (not taking into consideration the circumstances) is pretty dumb on your part
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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Antonio Bryant is god.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Jackson is not a good QB. At all. But Alex Smith is in no way any better, he is horrible. He has been given more than enough chances. His pocket presence is his only issue? HA!
If you mean enough chances with four different coordinators in just as many seasons, sure. And since when does three seasons denote that you're any good or not? Do you know how long it took guys like Dan Fouts or Terry Bradshaw to become the legends they are today? Or how about Aikman? They didn't accomplish it in their first three seasons I'll tell you that.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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Yeah unless you'd call a horrible offensive line (opposed to Jackson's superb one), an inept offensive coordinator (4th in 4 years), and a shoulder injury issues. I'm not here to make excuses because I'm one of those fans that if losing patience with Smith but to say Jackson is better than Smith (not taking into consideration the circumstances) is pretty dumb on your part

I never said he was better. I said Jackson wasn't any worse. You tell me what the hell Smith has done to prove that he is any better than Tavaris Jackson.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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I never said he was better. I said Jackson wasn't any worse. You tell me what the hell Smith has done to prove that he is any better than Tavaris Jackson.
Apples and oranges. Jackson has had a better opportunity to prove himself.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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Apples and oranges. Jackson has had a better opportunity to prove himself.


Yes, with Bobby Wade as his number one receiver. Great opportunity.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:06 AM    (permalink
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When he had a solid receiver (Bryant is so underrated) he was a good player.

If his cast finally clicks like the Browns last year he could surprise imo.
I don't think he's underrated at all, everyone knows AB is good and has crazy potential to be one hell of a WR, but he is a headcase and finds a way to ruin every opportunity, but everyone knows he has elite talent.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Yes, with Bobby Wade as his number one receiver. Great opportunity.
Yeah that line and running game with the same coaching staff for at least two years didn't boost his chances at all.
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:45 AM    (permalink
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I don't think he's underrated at all, everyone knows AB is good and has crazy potential to be one hell of a WR, but he is a headcase and finds a way to ruin every opportunity, but everyone knows he has elite talent.
What is his deal anyway? It seems every year he pops up somewhere plays really well and then is either released, traded or doesn't have his contract renewed.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:28 AM    (permalink
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If you mean enough chances with four different coordinators in just as many seasons, sure. And since when does three seasons denote that you're any good or not? Do you know how long it took guys like Dan Fouts or Terry Bradshaw to become the legends they are today? Or how about Aikman? They didn't accomplish it in their first three seasons I'll tell you that.
Lol you purposely picked three players who started off with rocky careers. Why don't you pick the 2 great Niner's QBs to compare him to.

Alex Smith over 3 years: completion / attempts: 435 / 800, yards: 4,679, average: 5.8 yards, TDS: 19, INTS: 31, Rating: 63.5

Joe Montana over 3 years: completion / attempts: 500 / 784, yards: 5456, average: 6.9. TDS: 35, INTS: 21, Rating: 85ish

Steve Young over first 3 years: completion / attempts: 304 / 570, yards: 3,787, average: 6.6. TDS: 21, INTS: 21. Rating: 81ish.

I'm not hopping on the "Omg Alex Smith is a bust" band wagon, but my point is, I can pick random QB's to compare Alex Smith against too, it doesn't prove anything though. Aikman, Bradshaw and Fouts were special QBs and all legends in their own right, but I doubt that many teams today would have given them as much time to develop as their respective teams did back then - its pretty cliche but its a "what can you do for me now" league, and teams want instant results.

Also, I think Alex Smith has a huge ceiling and he can be the guy for the niner's if he has the determination to work hard and make the best of every opportunity he can.

P.S. no one is asking Alex Smith to be a legend by his third year in the league, they just want start seeing positive results on his development.
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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I never said he was better. I said Jackson wasn't any worse. You tell me what the hell Smith has done to prove that he is any better than Tavaris Jackson.
It sounded that way since you didn't call Jackson good but you called Smith horrible, like Jackson isn't.. Smith has already shown he can play when the pieces are put in place. Two seasons ago under Norv, Alex showed flashes of being a good QB and had a decent season. Just expect good things when he's under the man that created the greatest show on turf.
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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I don't call myself a Romo basher but when Romo wins a playoff game, it will be then that I might consider him the best in the NFC.

As for Alex Smith, the homer in me feels the need to at least defend him some. While I agree he's be awful, I'll that his rookie year, he never should have seen the field, that team had players starting that couldn't even get a roster spot on most teams this season. When Norv was there, he was learning an entirely new offense for the second year in a row. Same with last year, except there was a guy calling plays that couldn't tell the difference between 1st-and-ten and 3rd-and-1. As for this year, Martz is there and Alex is on his fourth playbook in four years. That's a bit ridiculous. I don't think all the blame should be on him for being thrust into a situation that really wasn't that nurturing for a young QB. Also, if I am not mistaken, he's still younger than some/all of the 1st round QBs from this year.

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Also, I think Alex Smith has a huge ceiling and he can be the guy for the niner's if he has the determination to work hard and make the best of every opportunity he can.
He's supposed to be one of the hardest workers according to Martz, and he's there so I assume he knows better than we do.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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If you mean enough chances with four different coordinators in just as many seasons, sure. And since when does three seasons denote that you're any good or not? Do you know how long it took guys like Dan Fouts or Terry Bradshaw to become the legends they are today? Or how about Aikman? They didn't accomplish it in their first three seasons I'll tell you that.
Troy Aikman completed 65% of his passes and threw more TDs than INTs on his way to the pro bowl his 3rd year.

Bradshaw was pretty terrible his first three years, but to be honest, he was pretty terrible his whole career. If the Steelers didn't win 4 super bowls on his watch, he'd be a vauge memory right now.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Troy Aikman completed 65% of his passes and threw more TDs than INTs on his way to the pro bowl his 3rd year.

Bradshaw was pretty terrible his first three years, but to be honest, he was pretty terrible his whole career. If the Steelers didn't win 4 super bowls on his watch, he'd be a vauge memory right now.
That's a pretty monstrous IF. It might be the biggest IF I've ever seen, really.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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That's a pretty monstrous IF. It might be the biggest IF I've ever seen, really.
Not really. Many people acknowledge that fact that Bradshaw sucked, in fact he was pretty Grossmanesque.

The only difference if that Bradshaw had 2 of the best WR in the game who were far superior to everyone they matched up against, a great defense, and a run game.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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That's a pretty monstrous IF. It might be the biggest IF I've ever seen, really.
Look at Bradshaw's performance. He never broke 4,000 yards in a season. He only threw for 20 or more TDs 4 times, however, he threw for 20 or more INTs 5 times. He never completed more 60% of his passes. He has a career passer rating of 70.9. He fumbled 84 times. He only made 3 pro bowls and only made the All Pro team once.

You need to stop thinking that the QB is the sole reason a team wins. There are 4 QBs in the Hall of Fame right now who really don't deserve it, but because of a boast, or being really old, or happening to have one of the greatest protracted defenses in history, or having one of the greatest running backs in history, got in somehow. That shouldn't be criteria for induction. That should be for a plaque somewhere in the museum, next to the shoes Ed Reed wore on his INT return.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Lol you purposely picked three players who started off with rocky careers. Why don't you pick the 2 great Niner's QBs to compare him to.

Alex Smith over 3 years: completion / attempts: 435 / 800, yards: 4,679, average: 5.8 yards, TDS: 19, INTS: 31, Rating: 63.5

Joe Montana over 3 years: completion / attempts: 500 / 784, yards: 5456, average: 6.9. TDS: 35, INTS: 21, Rating: 85ish

Steve Young over first 3 years: completion / attempts: 304 / 570, yards: 3,787, average: 6.6. TDS: 21, INTS: 21. Rating: 81ish.

I'm not hopping on the "Omg Alex Smith is a bust" band wagon, but my point is, I can pick random QB's to compare Alex Smith against too, it doesn't prove anything though. Aikman, Bradshaw and Fouts were special QBs and all legends in their own right, but I doubt that many teams today would have given them as much time to develop as their respective teams did back then - its pretty cliche but its a "what can you do for me now" league, and teams want instant results.

Also, I think Alex Smith has a huge ceiling and he can be the guy for the niner's if he has the determination to work hard and make the best of every opportunity he can.

P.S. no one is asking Alex Smith to be a legend by his third year in the league, they just want start seeing positive results on his development.
Yes that was the point of my post. I'm trying to show others that not all good quarterbacks start out as Pro Bowlers after their first three seasons. Why would I compare him to Steve Young and Joe Montana? It's not like Smith plays in the same system they did or had the same personnel. And even if I wanted to, I could even make the case. Steve Young was not very good in Tampa Bay or when he first came to the 49ers. He was very hot and cold. I find it amusing that you're amused because you simply misunderstood the intention of my post.

And yes it does prove something when I compare Alex to other quarterbacks that have been in a similar situation. It proves that not all good quarterbacks start off as megastars after three seasons. Doesn't matter if this is a "I want it now" league. It takes more time for some others. To not expect that is ridiculous. You can't always get instant results.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Troy Aikman completed 65% of his passes and threw more TDs than INTs on his way to the pro bowl his 3rd year.

Bradshaw was pretty terrible his first three years, but to be honest, he was pretty terrible his whole career. If the Steelers didn't win 4 super bowls on his watch, he'd be a vauge memory right now.
Yes Troy Aikman threw 11 touchdowns compared to 10 interceptions. Big whoop. Steve Young had a better year than Aikman did and he wasn't in Hawaii.
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Yes Troy Aikman threw 11 touchdowns compared to 10 interceptions. Big whoop. And he didn't deserve his Pro Bowl spot that year. That was bogus. Steve Young must have opted out of his spot because he had a better year in one less start than Aikman did. Or he was injured.
The guy that you should be hoping Alex Smith follows is Drew Brees. He started out terrible in SD.
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The guy that you should be hoping Alex Smith follows is Drew Brees. He started out terrible in SD.
Yup. He started out slow, but soon blossomed.
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I am not a smith fan, but we will see in Martz's system. His system has alot of shall/cross concepts in them, which he used with the Rams as well. I am sure Davis will get used in that kind of concept as well, and also will take pressure off of SMith. Smith is a smart kid, and in that concept you run so many different types of stuff with. I am very interested in seeing how much of the '00 Rams playbook is installed in this current system with Alex Smith.
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