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Old 07-07-2008, 10:19 PM    (permalink
princefielder28
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Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
Nope. Goalies in hockey have more of an impact on the game than QBs do.
ahhh sorry...a QB touches the ball on every snap of every play, and he must know the responsibilities of the other ten individuals with him, and every deicison he makes is a deciding factor in the outcome for the team
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
QB is the most important position in all of team sports, though...so the impact of the QB is far greater than any other positional player....a QB like Tom Brady is the heart and soul of that dynasty and has deserved everything he's gotten. He has played on some very talented, but as time has gone on he has been the reason for thier success.
a.k.a- the potential scapegoat and collector of model ass at the same time.

On a serious note though I get what you are saying. I just do not want championships to be in the equation. I don't think its fair to those great QBs whose supporting casts and supporting defenses never measured up.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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a.k.a- the potential scapegoat and collector of model ass at the same time.

On a serious note though I get what you are saying. I just do not want championships to be in the equation. I don't think its fair to those great QBs whose supporting casts and supporting defenses never measured up.
Agree...the eyeball test is a far better judgment of talent than statistics will ever be
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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ahhh sorry...a QB touches the ball on every snap of every play, and he must know the responsibilities of the other ten individuals with him, and every deicison he makes is a deciding factor in the outcome for the team
Great. Every time the goalie makes a mistake, a big red light comes on, 20K boo him and the score changes.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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But he won, which is the only thing that matters. Check out Peyton's line from the Super Bowl. Nothing amazing. But do you care that he was ok or that he won the game?
I thought he did pretty well, other than the early interception he threw early trying to make something happen that wasn't there. Final stat line was 25/38 (65.8%)-247-1-1, considering the rainy conditions throughout the game.

I wouldn't have had a problem with Addai and Rhodes being co-MVPs though, which I think is the point you're making.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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I think this Peyton Manning vs Tom Brady discussion may go down in history as the discussion between the greatest QB of all time and the second greatest QB of all time.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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I too believed that after this past post season eli manning had put it together. I was telling people that he was finally going to be what he was supposed to be.

After re-watching the Giants playoff games on NFLN, I changed my mind. He missed plenty of check downs in the Tampa game in which he threw the ball into the ground. He was solid, but not spectacular against Dallas and GB, and he almost threw the pick to end the super bowl. Asante Samuel could of locked that game up.

The Giants got away from their vertical pass game and allowed Eli to more or less "manage" the game with short to intermediate throws. He deserves credit for cutting back on turnovers and taking care of the ball, but lets give credit to the defense for that superbowl.

That D-line was one of the most disruptive ever and they carried the team through the playoffs. They shut down Dal, GB, and NE -- the Top 3 offenses in the league!!!

Eli may continue to play solid, but he certainly isn't better than brady and definitely isn't even a top 5 QB.

Lets not forget that Brady played with scrubs at WR for years before moss. Givens? Troy Brown? Branch? what have any of those guys done since they left (excluding brown)?

What did Welker do before he came to NE?

Brady is definitely the best in the league.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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I really want to see Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne on a different team. I myself think that Peyton Manning has made Harrison and Wayne and that all star cast. Their line is one of the best because they give up the lease sacks, but I think Peyton Manning's makes great drops and is able to get the ball out of his hands so quickly. I wonder how the receivers would do without Manning changing the plays or exploiting coverages.

Thats just my opinion. Tom Brady has the better intangibles with his leadership ability and clutch factor, but I think when it comes to mechanics and the ability to place a ball somewhere, I would say Manning would take that.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:22 PM    (permalink
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Am I the only one who is sick of Manning/Brady debates? The fact that the debate happens so frequently and gets so much response indicates to me that the two players are a lot closer than people (on both sides of the debate) think.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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Am I the only one who is sick of Manning/Brady debates? The fact that the debate happens so frequently and gets so much response indicates to me that the two players are a lot closer than people (on both sides of the debate) think.
You want sick? Try listening to someone trying to justify Eli Manning being a better quarterback than Tom Brady. LOL
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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you mean the audibles? most people think its dribble.
If you think all manning does at the line is audibles you're insane.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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If you think all manning does at the line is audibles you're insane.
I threw all of "all manning does" into one word.

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Old 07-07-2008, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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If you think all manning does at the line is audibles you're insane.
I'm not sure what else you could do. The term "audible" in football means a change due to what you see from the defense, or just because you damn feel like it.

If what you're saying is that he does more than just change the play, then yes, of course it's just more than that. But people here are smarter than to just assume all he does is change the play or the side where the run is going to. Lots of blocking scheme changes and duties switch around as he moves the play around to what he sees from the defense.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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Am I the only one who is sick of Manning/Brady debates? The fact that the debate happens so frequently and gets so much response indicates to me that the two players are a lot closer than people (on both sides of the debate) think.
Thank you, PL. Thank you.

May this debate not come up again until at least midway through the next season.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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Last year I saw Brady surpass Manning TD record without all of the BS at the line. Call it spygate, call it the Colts inferior gameplan, whatever.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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Last year I saw Brady surpass Manning TD record without all of the BS at the line. Call it spygate, call it the Colts inferior gameplan, whatever.
If you think Brady does nothing at the line then you are, in fact, insane.

When Brady was putting up crazy numbers, I heard Charlie Weis on the radio with Colin Cowherd, and they kept talking on how Belicheat specifically told Weis to always call in three plays to Brady. One would be the main one from the OC, and the other two would be in case Brady saw something odd in the defense.

Now a days, more and more QB's are being given freedom to switch around plays at the line. It really became popular with Manning, but he sure as hell isn't the only one that does it.
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:45 AM    (permalink
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Thank you, PL. Thank you.

May this debate not come up again until at least midway through the next season.
I think the real debate should be...

Who is a better QB, David Carr or Gus Ferotte???
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I don't have to watch it to know it was not interesting.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:00 AM    (permalink
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Last year I saw Brady surpass Manning TD record without all of the BS at the line. Call it spygate, call it the Colts inferior gameplan, whatever.
I'd call it getting 81 pass attempts more. In 04 Manning threw a TD on 9.9% of his passes, Brady in 07 did it on 8.4% of his passes.
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Old 07-08-2008, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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I'd call it getting 81 pass attempts more. In 04 Manning threw a TD on 9.9% of his passes, Brady in 07 did it on 8.4% of his passes.
Not to mention Manning having a RIDICULOUS 9.2 YPA compared to Tom Brady's pedestrian seeming 8.2 (which is crazy because Tom Brady had Randy Moss).
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Old 07-08-2008, 02:46 AM    (permalink
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I don't really get the surrounding cast debate. People act like because Brady had ****** Wide receivers that all the sudden it makes him a better QB. Over the course of Brady's career I would say the pats had a better D than the colt's did over the course of Manning's career - but who cares? they both have had great teams around them. Manning has a great O-line - Brady has a great O-line. Manning has a good RB in Addai, Brady has a good RB in Maroney. Manning has Wayne, Brady has Moss. Both have good defense now too.

The talent levels of both teams have changed so much over the years due to guys having break out seasons then wanting better contracts that their team can't afford. To say because Brady simply lacked in one area that he's a better QB seems absurd - you don't think his defense keeping the game close was important?

Anyways, point being - both teams are talented and should be reviewed past the receiver corps.

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Old 07-08-2008, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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I know I'd rather sit around a BBQ and drink a beer with Peyton then I would with Brady.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:18 AM    (permalink
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id rather sit around a BBQ and drink a beer with Gisele thats what i know
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
QB is the most important position in all of team sports, though...so the impact of the QB is far greater than any other positional player....a QB like Tom Brady is the heart and soul of that dynasty and has deserved everything he's gotten. He has played on some very talented, but as time has gone on he has been the reason for thier success.
So...what about...the rest of the team?

Tom Brady = The Derek Jeter of the NFL...
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by d34ng3l021 View Post
Not to mention Manning having a RIDICULOUS 9.2 YPA compared to Tom Brady's pedestrian seeming 8.2 (which is crazy because Tom Brady had Randy Moss).
Once again, two Pro Bowl targets> one Pro Bowl target.
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:02 AM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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so ur talking about WRs making QBs better...why not way around?

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Originally Posted by DragonFireKai View Post
When Matt Hasselbeck got Deon Branch last season, his numbers were superior to anything Brady put up with Branch. So Hasselbeck is better than Manning?
did anyone ever answer that?
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