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Old 07-08-2008, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Renji View Post
so ur talking about WRs making QBs better...why not way around?

did anyone ever answer that?
Patriots' receiving corps wasn't very good all-round, Hasselbeck had a few good targets.
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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Branch/Givens/Brown is an underrated trio. They're not the bums that Tom Brady revisionist history makes them out to be. Just because one of them didn't catch 1K yards, don't let that fool you into forgetting how effective they could be in the postseason. Brown had the experienced route-running, Givens could play against press coverage and score touchdowns for red zone offense, and Branch could play from the slot and find open zones.

Brown got old, Givens tore his ACL before playing a full game with the Titans (derailed his career as he's yet to come back from it), and we've seen what has happened with Branch in Seattle.
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Branch/Givens/Brown is an underrated trio. They're not the bums that Tom Brady revisionist history makes them out to be. Just because one of them didn't catch 1K yards, don't let that fool you into forgetting how effective they could be in the postseason. Brown had the experienced route-running, Givens could play against press coverage and score touchdowns for red zone offense, and Branch could play from the slot and find open zones.

Brown got old, Givens tore his ACL before playing a full game with the Titans (derailed his career as he's yet to come back from it), and we've seen what has happened with Branch in Seattle.
They're still not nearly as good as Harrison/Wayne/Stokley etc...
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Old 07-08-2008, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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The 22 coaches must just be idiots. I'm surprised more people from NFLDC don't hold Front Office Jobs with their favorite teams. 22 is an overwhelming number. It isn't like it was split, or only a difference of a few votes. Tom Brady got the clear majority.

I fail to see how so many people can have a problem with this.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Branch/Givens/Brown is an underrated trio. They're not the bums that Tom Brady revisionist history makes them out to be. Just because one of them didn't catch 1K yards, don't let that fool you into forgetting how effective they could be in the postseason. Brown had the experienced route-running, Givens could play against press coverage and score touchdowns for red zone offense, and Branch could play from the slot and find open zones.

Brown got old, Givens tore his ACL before playing a full game with the Titans (derailed his career as he's yet to come back from it), and we've seen what has happened with Branch in Seattle.
Exactly...people act like Brady was throwing to a bunch of turds for years...yet all of those guys were good enough to start for and produce on a SB winning team. Do they have the name recognition a Harrison or Wayne has? No.

Name recognition is a fan thing, not something a coach actually gives two craps about. They caught the ball and obviously did their job within the Pats offensive system...so why they're treated like trash while their QB is put on some God-like pedestal is beyond me.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Once again, two Pro Bowl targets> one Pro Bowl target.
True...Moss is the only guy Brady had...forget Welker, Watson, and Stallworth...Tom Brady gets by on pure GUTS and WILL and CLUTCH and TOUGH and LEADERSHIP...things Peyton Manning so obviously lacks.

Forget the dominant O-line...forget everyone but Randy Moss catching the ball...forget the play calling...forget all that stuff...it's all Brady, all the time. Thats really the only reason the Pats do anything really. Without Brady that franchise might not even exist...they'd be THAT lost without him.

When did Tom Brady get mythical powers? It's almost as annoying as the Jeter crap during the Yankees run.

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Old 07-08-2008, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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i'm constantly amazed how many people make this garbage argument and still think it's even remotely relevant.

"ZOMG u shld b in tha front offis!!!1oneshiftone" remains a crappy, unoriginal argument that only gets thrown around by people who don't have any business taking part in the discussion.
Except that's not what he said. Or at least he didn't say it immaturely, like yourself.

Fact is, as much as us arm-chair QBs want to think we're experts on everything NFL, we're not. Head coaches know a hell of a lot more than we can ever dream of knowing.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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who cares? that's still a garbage argument. or are you suggesting that head coaches are always right in every judgement they make? i guess i'm an idiot for thinking mike shanahan was wrong to take maurice clarett. what a great pick!

get real. "some guy with an actual job in the nfl said it so it must be true" is a lazy, untrue argument no matter how "maturely" you try to present it.
When a clear majority of NFL coaches say something that isn't even in the least bit far-fetched, I tend to buy it. But hey, I don't have the insight into the play of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning like you do. Clearly you know more than the NFL coaches who have been studying these two players for the better part of a decade.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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This is a load of crap, everyone knows Osi Umenyiora is ten times the QB Jason Taylor is...

oh and Eli>>>Brady cuz lyke Eli iz super bowl MVP!!!!!!!!1111111!!!!!! so Peyton is avenged and shiznat-izzle dawg.

Mike Teel>>>>every QB to grace the earth btw
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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Nope. Goalies in hockey have more of an impact on the game than QBs do.
Well hockey needs to be a sport before we recognize goalies.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Well hockey needs to be a sport before we recognize goalies.
I would argue pitchers in baseball are more important than QBs in football.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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I would argue pitchers in baseball are more important than QBs in football.
It's a push imo.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Well hockey needs to be a sport before we recognize goalies.
genius statement.... you impress everyone with your hilarious humor... your right hockey isn't a sport. that's why Hossa will pull in 7.1 million dollars next year. its not a sport that's why hockey players are some of the most respected athletes by other athletes. before you make another hockey joke just realize that American sports fans aren't the only people whose opinions matter. In Europe after soccer hockey is the most popular sport. Out of Western countries America is the only one in which hockey isn't top 3 in popularity. ive had a bad day and i dont like reading ignorant statements
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Nope. Goalies in hockey have more of an impact on the game than QBs do.
yeah because a football team can be good with a below average QB. there are other things they can do to cover for him (such as run the ball and simplify the offense). in order to win the cup your goalie has to be good.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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genius statement.... you impress everyone with your hilarious humor... your right hockey isn't a sport. that's why Hossa will pull in 7.1 million dollars next year. its not a sport that's why hockey players are some of the most respected athletes by other athletes. before you make another hockey joke just realize that American sports fans aren't the only people whose opinions matter. In Europe after soccer hockey is the most popular sport. Out of Western countries America is the only one in which hockey isn't top 3 in popularity. your an asshole. go to hell... ive had a bad day and i dont like reading what an ignorant fool has to say.
Your sarcasm radar is off. Get your panties out of a bunch.
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Old 07-08-2008, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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i'm constantly amazed how many people make this garbage argument and still think it's even remotely relevant.

"ZOMG u shld b in tha front offis!!!1oneshiftone" remains a crappy, unoriginal argument that only gets thrown around by people who don't have any business taking part in the discussion.
Alright Mod. You're ridiculous with how you troll and just wait to pounce on people with your coy attitude. Guess it happens when you live a bigger percentage of your life online. Throwin attitude at everyone. Mr. Almighty.
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Old 07-08-2008, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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who gives a crap?
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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who gives a crap?
Apparently quite a few people.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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i don't recall suggesting anywhere in this thread that i know better than anyone. i DO recall suggesting that it's borderline idiotic to suggest that a headcoach's opinion is defacto worth more than anyone else's simply because he's a head coach. if you'd like supporting evidence, we can certainly pull up a FA/draft bust list and you can tell me how all of the decisions were perfect.

i said something along that lines. big deal if its a head coach. juts another OPINION
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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i don't recall suggesting anywhere in this thread that i know better than anyone. i DO recall suggesting that it's borderline idiotic to suggest that a headcoach's opinion is defacto worth more than anyone else's simply because he's a head coach. if you'd like supporting evidence, we can certainly pull up a FA/draft bust list and you can tell me how all of the decisions were perfect.
What do free agent and draft busts have to do with a comparison between 2 proven commodities?

Everyone knows what they are getting from both guys, they understand the game better than any of us, and they overwhelmingly prefer Brady to Manning.

I fail to see how that isn't significant.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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i don't recall suggesting anywhere in this thread that i know better than anyone. i DO recall suggesting that it's borderline idiotic to suggest that a headcoach's opinion is defacto worth more than anyone else's simply because he's a head coach. if you'd like supporting evidence, we can certainly pull up a FA/draft bust list and you can tell me how all of the decisions were perfect.
Assuming they must tell the absolute truth, who's opinion is more relevant when talking about a company's stock:
a) the CEO's
b) a random joe who just watches the market like the rest of us

Any intelligent person would say the CEO's opinion is more relevant.

Who's opinion do I care about more when it comes to players? Some random 16-year old on a draft message board? Or perhaps a coach who spends 12+ hours per day studying football and football players?

Nobody is saying that coaches are infallible. But they are certainly more knowledgeable than us when it comes to football knowledge.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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it's ironic when a poster (you) in an internet forum accuses another poster (me) in an internet forum of having no life. but hey, maybe someday you'll make an actual argument in response instead of whining about how unfair everything is.
I've just noticed you argue with people and rip down arguments without actually getting in the discussion. You aren't giving an opinion, you are just ripping others and the way they go about it. Why don't you choose a side and support it instead of being negative and critical with others?
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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1. I don't believe I have seen an honest Brady yet, we shall see who is better this next season, I'm pretty sure Manning would be god like if he knew exactly what the opposing D was going to do, Oh wait he does that by spending time in the video room.
2. This was which player would you rather draft... I'm a Manning fan and id rather have Brady so I don't have to eat Manning's salary, I'd have more room under the cap for other players.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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genius statement.... you impress everyone with your hilarious humor... your right hockey isn't a sport. that's why Hossa will pull in 7.1 million dollars next year. its not a sport that's why hockey players are some of the most respected athletes by other athletes. before you make another hockey joke just realize that American sports fans aren't the only people whose opinions matter. In Europe after soccer hockey is the most popular sport. Out of Western countries America is the only one in which hockey isn't top 3 in popularity. ive had a bad day and i dont like reading ignorant statements
Oh god, cry me a ******* river.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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2. This was which player would you rather draft... I'm a Manning fan and id rather have Brady so I don't have to eat Manning's salary, I'd have more room under the cap for other players.
Tom Brady has a cap number of 14.626 million dollars this season. Who can tell me what Peyton Manning's cap number is for 2008?
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