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Old 07-10-2008, 05:27 PM    (permalink
661rep
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if there is anyone else you might think is a good measuring stick, let me know.
I'm really curious about Jammer & Cromartie as a Raider fan. I wanna see how good they both really were. Also you could probably list Rashean Mathis & Nate Clements.
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Old 07-10-2008, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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I'm really curious about Jammer & Cromartie as a Raider fan. I wanna see how good they both really were. Also you could probably list Rashean Mathis & Nate Clements.
I'd assume that Mathis' numbers aren't very good. He had an off year last season, as he was playing through nagging a hamstring and shoulder injury all season.
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Old 07-10-2008, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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if there is anyone else you might think is a good measuring stick, let me know.
I'm not sure if this counts as a measuring stick, but I'd love to see Al Harris' numbers versus those of Charles Woodson.
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Old 07-10-2008, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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I wanna see Vashers/Tillmans Numbers :D
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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Success rate is defined as this: The percentage of plays targeting this player on which the offense DID NOT have a successful play. This means not only incomplete passes and interceptions but short completions which do not meet our baselines for success (45 percent of needed yards on first down, 60 percent on second down, 100 percent on 3rd and 4th down) Defensive pass interference is counted as a failure as is a successful completion or first down.

Adam Jones: Targeted 69 times, Success rate of 63%, 5.4 YPC (Avg. yards per completion given up)

Nathan Vasher: Unavailable due to missing 12 games caused by injury

Charles Tillman: Targeted 93 times, Success rate of 52%, 5.9 YPC

Champ Bailey: Targeted 67 times, Success rate of 59%, 6.7 YPC

Charles Woodson: Targeted 62 times, Success rate of 58%, 7.7 YPC

Al Harris: Targeted 74 times, Success rate of 40%, 9.4 YPC

Rashean Mathis: Targeted 61 times, Success rate of 47%, 6.5 YPC

Nanmdi Asomugha: Targeted 38 times, Success rate of 61%, 5.8 YPC

DeAngelo Hall: Targeted 92 times, Success rate of 52%,
7.2 YPC

Asante Samuel: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 51%, 6.3 YPC

Ike Taylor: Targeted 111 times, Success rate of 53%, 7.2 YPC

Quentin Jammer: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 53%, 6.4 YPC

Antonio Cromartie: Targeted 57 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.2 YPC

Nate Clements: Targeted 109 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.0 YPC


SIDE NOTE: Charles Woodson and Al Harris were ranked 1 and 2 in defensive penalties with 12 and 11 respectively.

Last edited by Burns336 : 07-10-2008 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:22 AM    (permalink
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Asomugha is beastly.
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:25 AM    (permalink
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Success rate is defined as this: The percentage of plays targeting this player on which the offense DID NOT have a successful play. This means not only incomplete passes and interceptions but short completions which do not meet our baselines for success (45 percent of needed yards on first down, 60 percent on second down, 100 percent on 3rd and 4th down) Defensive pass interference is counted as a failure as is a successful completion or first down.

Adam Jones: Targeted 69 times, Success rate of 63%, 5.4 YPC (Avg. yards per completion given up)

Nathan Vasher: Unavailable due to missing 12 games caused by injury

Charles Tillman: Targeted 93 times, Success rate of 52%, 5.9 YPC

Champ Bailey: Targeted 67 times, Success rate of 59%, 6.7 YPC

Charles Woodson: Targeted 62 times, Success rate of 58%, 7.7 YPC

Al Harris: Targeted 74 times, Success rate of 40%, 9.4 YPC

Rashean Mathis: Targeted 61 times, Success rate of 47%, 6.5 YPC

Nanmdi Asomugha: Targeted 38 times, Success rate of 61%, 5.8 YPC

DeAngelo Hall: Targeted 92 times, Success rate of 52%,
7.2 YPC

Asante Samuel: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 51%, 6.3 YPC

Ike Taylor: Targeted 111 times, Success rate of 53%, 7.2 YPC

Quentin Jammer: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 53%, 6.4 YPC

Antonio Cromartie: Targeted 57 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.2 YPC

Nate Clements: Targeted 109 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.0 YPC


SIDE NOTE: Charles Woodson and Al Harris were ranked 1 and 2 in defensive penalties with 12 and 11 respectively.
Wouldn't a team's pass rush effect a corner's success though?
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:37 AM    (permalink
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Wouldn't a team's pass rush effect a corner's success though?
Yes. Although, two of the best CB's in league Aso & Champ haven't had good pass rush the last two years.
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:39 AM    (permalink
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Wouldn't a team's pass rush effect a corner's success though?
well obviously any stat you look at should be taken into consideration along with the players system. Even the most basic stats such as yards for a running back depend on the system. Look at all of the Bronco RB's. You're basically guaranteed 1000 yards...

Or you can say an O-line makes or breaks a RB, or QB.

Same with defense, Maybe they play a lot more zone, maybe more man to man, maybe they have more/less of a pass rush with other guys.

These are simply the best stats available for CB's, but to answer your question, yes the system in which the player plays in should be taken into consideration.

But you still must consider that the success rate is only affected and taken into account when a player is directly targeted on a play. So, while the pass rush may help to force a crappy pass in the direction of the defender, it certainly isn't happening on every play.

I'd argue that the top pressure producing team in the league is san diego -- as you can see, even with that pressure, Jammer and Cro aren't as good as some guys who dont get any help at all (Aso)
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:45 AM    (permalink
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Anyway, the whole point of me posting these is to show that Adam Jones was one of the top cb's in the league statistically speaking in 2006 and could end up forming the top duo in the league along side Terence Newman, who had a down year by his standards, mostly due to the injury which he had in his plant foot for a majority of the season.

Rashean Mathis down year can be attributed to injury as well.

Newman: Targeted 68 times, Success rate of 47%, 6.9 YPC
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:51 AM    (permalink
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well obviously any stat you look at should be taken into consideration along with the players system. Even the most basic stats such as yards for a running back depend on the system. Look at all of the Bronco RB's. You're basically guaranteed 1000 yards...

Or you can say an O-line makes or breaks a RB, or QB.

Same with defense, Maybe they play a lot more zone, maybe more man to man, maybe they have more/less of a pass rush with other guys.

These are simply the best stats available for CB's, but to answer your question, yes the system in which the player plays in should be taken into consideration.

But you still must consider that the success rate is only affected and taken into account when a player is directly targeted on a play. So, while the pass rush may help to force a crappy pass in the direction of the defender, it certainly isn't happening on every play.

I'd argue that the top pressure producing team in the league is san diego -- as you can see, even with that pressure, Jammer and Cro aren't as good as some guys who dont get any help at all (Aso)
Are those the most recent metrics from each player based on the most recent season they played?
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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Does it say how many TD's they allowed??
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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Are those the most recent metrics from each player based on the most recent season they played?
yeah, these are from the past season with the exception of adam jones, his are from the last season he played in.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Does it say how many TD's they allowed??
unfortunately no. I can't figure out why they wouldn't. That is pretty important to me.

I think I read that the rational behind it was that if a DB gives up a huge pass and makes the tackle down at the 2 yard line, then the opposing offense rushes the ball in, the DB should be held somewhat accountable for that TD. Since you can't actually put a number on how many td's they should be held accountable for, they just do successes and failures.

That being said, I would still love to see an exact number for TD's. Maybe KC Joyners book will have it.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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call me a homer but what about r.barber and b.kelly
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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call me a homer but what about r.barber and b.kelly
Ill throw them up when I get home
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Hate to keep bugging you for stats, but I'd also like to see Fabian Washington, Marcus Trufant, and Terrance Newman if you get a chance.
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Old 07-11-2008, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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I posted newmans a few posts up where I was talking about he and mathis putting up below avg. numbers which can probably attributed to injuries.

Ill throw up trufant and washington when I get home.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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Ronde Barber: Targeted 53 times, Success rate of 47%, 6.5 YPC

Brian Kelly: Targeted 34 times, Success rate of 55%, 4.8 YPC

Marcus Trufant: Targeted 113 times, Success rate of 53%, 6.8 YPC

Fabian Washington: Targeted 50 times, Success rate of 46%, 9.3 YPC <<
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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Can you do Lito Sheppard/Sheldon Brown maybe?
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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the whole "Deion with anyone else" thing was funny. Funny, but true. Deion was amazing.
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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I'd argue that the top pressure producing team in the league is san diego -- as you can see, even with that pressure, Jammer and Cro aren't as good as some guys who dont get any help at all (Aso)
Ask any Charger fan and they'll probably tell you the secondary outperformed the pass rush in 2007. QBs had way too much time against us, even though Merriman and Phillips got their numbers.
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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Ask any Charger fan and they'll probably tell you the secondary outperformed the pass rush in 2007. QBs had way too much time against us, even though Merriman and Phillips got their numbers.
I live here, I watch every game. If Castillo is healthy and Merriman isn't suspended the front 7 is def better than the secondary. But Jammer finally came around and played well and Cro was only in his first full year. They can be even better this year.

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Old 07-11-2008, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Lito Sheppard: Targeted 61 times, 36% Success rate, 8.5 YPC

Sheldon Brown: Targeted 83 times, 53% Success rate, 7.4 YPC
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