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Old 07-13-2008, 01:01 PM    (permalink
Burns336
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Originally Posted by Mr.Regular View Post
You're an idiot.

Is Favre in the top 5 ever? Debatable.

I say yes. I think his durability, records, championship, MVP awards, and longevity help prove that.

Of course you could rank players like Montana, Elway, Unitas, Graham etc, etc, ahead of him. Everyone's list is different. And if you had him outside the top 5, than that would be understandable since so much is up to personal preference, time period, etc, etc. But to bash someone for putting him in the discussion is just plain stupid.

Why not criticize the joker who put Terry Bradshaw in their list? Now that I have a problem with!
I'm the idiot? Like I said, take a history lesson before you let Favre get anywhere near your top 5.

He can have all the awards he wants, that doesn't mean anything. To me, he is known as someone who always made the big mistake in the critical situation. I just wont put that guy in the top 5 greatest QB's ever.

you're a bit of a cry baby. Discussions and debates take place here, if you can't handle it, I suggest you leave.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr.Regular View Post
You're an idiot.

Is Favre in the top 5 ever? Debatable.

I say yes. I think his durability, records, championship, MVP awards, and longevity help prove that.

Of course you could rank players like Montana, Elway, Unitas, Graham etc, etc, ahead of him. Everyone's list is different. And if you had him outside the top 5, than that would be understandable since so much is up to personal preference, time period, etc, etc. But to bash someone for putting him in the discussion is just plain stupid.

Why not criticize the joker who put Terry Bradshaw in their list? Now that I have a problem with!
dude, no personal attacks, it's a difference of opinion for crying out loud.

Besides, Favre did make a lot of numbskull plays, sure it was partly why he was so charming (that gunslinger mentality) but at the same time it cost his team dearly when push came to shove.

And yes, when you mention career records, amount of games played does put it into perspective.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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1A. Johnny Unitas
1B. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Dan Marino
5. Brett Favre

I didn't include Brady and Peyton since theyre not done with their careers yet, but most likely theyll be in the top 5 surpassing Elway, Marino and Favre by the time their careers are over.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, the attack wasnt meant to be hurtful. It was more of a response to a comment that was made to me through the rep system. I shouldnt have posted the idiot comment, especially publically. I apoligize.

And also, I can handle it lol. Were just debating here, Im not bent out of shape about anything. I think its all in good fun. And though I respect your opinion, I do have to tell you I know lots of the history of the NFL and still rank Favre as top 5. Your comment about him screwing up on the big stage does have merit though and I understand your stance, just disagree with how you find my stance so wrong.
No harsh feelings here!
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Burns336 View Post
Winning only 1 superbowl in the nineties is not domination. Especially considering he had some of the most stacked teams in the league through out that time.
John Elway only won two and somehow its not controversial to have him on the list.

Quote:
With the exception of the 1 year they won, Brett ALWAYS made the big mistake.
so do most QBs.Brady choked in the playoffs so did Manning,Elway,Marino,all the greats choked at times.

Quote:
And again, 3 MVP's, big deal -- It's all about the post season right? I mean that seemed to be the case when everyone was talking about Peyton not being great. Why Romo isn't anything yet. Why some question Marino's place on the list.
Again the fact of the matter is only Montana is ahead of him in terms of TDs,yards,completions,and attempts in career playoff games.
Quote:
Winning a superbowl is great, but with some of the rosters he was surrounded with he should of had at least 2 or 3.
You could say this about Elway,marino,Young,Unitas,and most great QBs.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by doingthisinsteadofwork View Post
John Elway only won two and somehow its not controversial to have him on the list.

so do most QBs.Brady choked in the playoffs so did Manning,Elway,Marino,all the greats choked at times.

Again the fact of the matter is only Montana is ahead of him in terms of TDs,yards,completions,and attempts in career playoff games.
You could say this about Elway,marino,Young,Unitas,and most great QBs.
Again, one of my biggest sticking points is that he had some of the most stacked teams in the league. Throughout the 90's he was handed top 3 teams in terms of talent on both sides of the ball for 4 or 5 consecutive years and came away with 1 ring.

Either way. He doesn't sniff my top 5. Some might have him, I just dont see him that way.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Sorry, the attack wasnt meant to be hurtful. It was more of a response to a comment that was made to me through the rep system. I shouldnt have posted the idiot comment, especially publically. I apoligize.

And also, I can handle it lol. Were just debating here, Im not bent out of shape about anything. I think its all in good fun. And though I respect your opinion, I do have to tell you I know lots of the history of the NFL and still rank Favre as top 5. Your comment about him screwing up on the big stage does have merit though and I understand your stance, just disagree with how you find my stance so wrong.
No harsh feelings here!
No worries, If I was a packer fan he would be in my top 5 as well. Even non-packer fans have put him top 5. It's personal preference, I just dont agree with it.

I'm sure I overrate Tony Romo in my own mind.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Why do people continue to put Elway in their top 5? He is arguably the most overrated Quarterback in NFL history. He was never that great of a passer, never passed for a lot of TDs in a season. In fact, Elway's highest passing TD total in one season was 27. There have been over 100 Quarterbacks to pass for more TDs in a season. He averaged 18 TDs and 14 INTs per season, Other then 93 Elway never led the league in any major passing category.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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Again, one of my biggest sticking points is that he had some of the most stacked teams in the league. Throughout the 90's he was handed top 3 teams in terms of talent on both sides of the ball for 4 or 5 consecutive years and came away with 1 ring.
And you can say that about just any QB.Marino,Elway,Unitas,Staubach,and Young are all good examples.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Why do people continue to put Elway in their top 5? He is arguably the most overrated Quarterback in NFL history. He was never that great of a passer, never passed for a lot of TDs in a season. In fact, Elway's highest passing TD total in one season was 27. There have been over 100 Quarterbacks to pass for more TDs in a season. He averaged 18 TDs and 14 INTs per season, Other then 93 Elway never led the league in any major passing category.
I think its safe to say that Bradshaw wins that award, but feel free to argue Elway at number 2 if you'd like.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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And you can say that about just any QB.Marino,Elway,Unitas,Staubach,and Young are all good examples.
Young is a great example, I feel the same about him. I'm not familiar enough with the others rosters off the top of my head to comment to be honest.

I know when Unitas played when the power balance in the league was really uneven and I don't doubt his team probably over matched anyone they played.

Staubach didn't play on a team that was a clear powerhouse either. He went to 4 superbowls, winning 2 of them, and losing 2 of them to the Steel Curtain, which isn't anything to be sour over. Especially considering he passed for 230 yards and 3 td's in the second loss. If his Defense could have help stallworth/swan just a little bit, Staubach would have another ring or 2.

He lost 2 superbowls to the Steelers by a combined 8 points and played in an era with other big powerhouses like the Radiers, Steelers, and Dolphins.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr.Regular View Post
Sorry, the attack wasnt meant to be hurtful. It was more of a response to a comment that was made to me through the rep system. I shouldnt have posted the idiot comment, especially publically. I apoligize.

And also, I can handle it lol. Were just debating here, Im not bent out of shape about anything. I think its all in good fun. And though I respect your opinion, I do have to tell you I know lots of the history of the NFL and still rank Favre as top 5. Your comment about him screwing up on the big stage does have merit though and I understand your stance, just disagree with how you find my stance so wrong.
No harsh feelings here!
I understand, I was just poiting out that you can't do that on the boards.

Also, I'm not denying Favre is a great QB. However, I feel his ways have cost his team superbowl and playoff victories, rather than winning it. Now I know Marino never won the SB, but he never had much of a defense, whilst Favre has been on a few loaded Packer teams.

In the end, in most cases, a good team + a great QB = success in the playoffs, even the superbowl. In Favre's 17 years as a Packer, he's only managed to win 1 SB, which isn't a very good score. The fact threw 29 int's on a weak team shows that Favre was very much relying on his team for production.

Other than that, I can't argue against three (straight) MVP awards. He has truly been a great QB and I suppose one could put him in a top 5 of all time, I just would have some questions about that.

Oh and wherever he goes, doesn't matter. It's just like Joe Montana, nobody will remember him as anything but a 49er, even though he played for the Chiefs late in his career. Favre will always be remembered as a Packer.
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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Why do people continue to put Elway in their top 5? He is arguably the most overrated Quarterback in NFL history. He was never that great of a passer, never passed for a lot of TDs in a season. In fact, Elway's highest passing TD total in one season was 27. There have been over 100 Quarterbacks to pass for more TDs in a season. He averaged 18 TDs and 14 INTs per season, Other then 93 Elway never led the league in any major passing category.
I think you make a very good point. When you look into his stats he doesn't look great.

20+ TD seasons- 6/16
60%+ compleation rate seasons- 3/16
3500+ yard seasons- 5/16
4000+ yard seasons- 1/16
Career QB rating- 79.9

Those are far from what you'd expect from a top 5 QB in NFL history.

When you figure out his season averages they would look like this:
TDs: 18
INTs: 14
yards: 3217
completion%: 56.9
QB rating: 79.9

That's very unimpressive. If you match up his career averages to a 2007 QB Philip Rivers comes closest and Rivers is better in 3 of those 5 categories above.
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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1.Kyle Boller
2.Rex Grossman
3.Trent Dilfer
4.Kordell Stewart
5.Elvis Grbac

Last edited by trkaline : 07-13-2008 at 03:15 PM. Reason: I forgot Trent Dilfer
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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How can Marino be the best of all time? He no longer holds any of the major records and he didn't win a Superbowl. What's your argument for him being the best?
1. Favre as all his records because he has played more games than marino
2. Marino would play for another few years if he was not hurt so much and Jimmy Johnson was not an idiot.
3. Marino played hurt
4. Super bowls are overrated(you need a great team to win a super bowl marino had no talent around him).
5. you put marino on a team with talent he would have many Super bowl rings
6. marino carried that team to the playoffs by himself year after year.
7. still holds passing yards record in a season(5,084 yards)
8. records take a look!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Mar..._by_Dan_Marino
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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so are we suggesting then, that stats are the only way to measure a qb? should we ignore the fact that, until his final years in the league, he never ONCE had a decent offense? that he basically carried the team to multiple super bowls? that denver was even leading washington before the defense fell apart and gave away the win? perhaps we should also ignore how good he was in the 4th quarter.

gale sayers, over his career, averaged 973 yards per season. by 2007 standards, that puts him 19th total, behind such luminaries as ryan grant and marion barber. i guess gale was really a pretty crappy running back if he was only a bit better than ryan grant.
No, not at all. Actually I'm kind of suggesting the opposite. I find it amazing how mediocre his stats look when you break it down, but he is still worthy of being called a great QB because of all the other factors.
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Old 07-13-2008, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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Why do people continue to put Elway in their top 5? He is arguably the most overrated Quarterback in NFL history. He was never that great of a passer, never passed for a lot of TDs in a season. In fact, Elway's highest passing TD total in one season was 27. There have been over 100 Quarterbacks to pass for more TDs in a season. He averaged 18 TDs and 14 INTs per season, Other then 93 Elway never led the league in any major passing category.
I'd seriously have to agree to disagree with you, hb.

Elway is tied with Unitas at the top of my list, as best QB ever. No one had the talent and ability, and fulfilled that talent and ability, like Elway imo. The man could do everything and literally carried the Broncos offense/franchise, he wasn't a fraud the media incorrectly labeled as clutch, the man was a warrior who could lead a game-winning touchdown drive at the end of the game. His greatness wasn't solely dependant on being in a particular system and have failure otherwise, like some other great quarterbacks including all-time great Joe Montana (who I would put at #3).
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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The fact threw 29 int's on a weak team shows that Favre was very much relying on his team for production.
I was trying to stay away from talking about Favre in this thread, but here is where I have to stand in. This quote shows me you know absolutely nothing about that because you couldn't be more wrong. Put any QB in their prime in that situation and they wouldn't do much better.

To start we lost our two starting guards to free agency. Marco Rivera was a probowler the three previous seasons, Mike Wahle was a probowler with the Panthers immediately after we lost him. We didn't have any options and replaced them with scrubs. Adrian Klemm and Will Whitticker were our starters. Klemm was career backup and Whitticker was our 7th round pick that year. Neither of them have been on an NFL roster since we released them after the 2005 season. Favre had no protection in the middle and very little time to throw. They also didn't help at all in providing a run game.

Then there is the mass amount of injuries we suffered throughout the season. Here was our projected supporting players for Favre:

RB: Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, Tony Fisher, Walt Williams
WR: Javon Walker, Donald Driver, Robert Ferguson, Terrence Murphy
TE: Bubba Franks, David Martin, Donald Lee

Now let's go over how these players dissapeared.

WR: Terrence Murphy our second round pick that year suffered a career ending neck injury before the season. Javon Walker coming off of a 1300 yard, 12 TD, probowl season held out all offseason and preseason. He decided to come back and play for us, but injured his knee week one against Detroit, out for the season. Robert Ferguson a second round bust was pushed into the starting role week 2 he started 7 games before being lost for the year due to injury.

RB: Walt Williams our 4th RB was lost for the season after week 3, sounds insignificant right now but keep reading. Nejeh Davenport who had been a very good #2 (hehe) back in 2003 and 2004 lost for the season in week 5 against the Saints. That was a blown, but didn't seem to be huge. That is until Ahman Green destroyed his knee the next game, also out for the season. Tony Fisher our third string back then became the starter. He was ineffective and also got injured though it wasn't season ending like all the other players so far.

TE: Bubba Franks coming off a 7 TD season the previous year was lost for the year after 8 starts. David Martin was then put in the starting role, where he was a half decent receiving option, but couldn't block which hurt our already inexpierenced and weak offensive line even more. Donald Lee became the #2 TE where he showed flashes, but he was far from the player he was last year at the time.

So a quick recap, just from that we lost the following offensive players for the season: #1 WR (Walker), #1 RB (Green), #1 TE (Franks), #2 RB (Davenport), #3 WR (Ferguson), #4 WR (Murphy)

At the half way point the only WRs we had left remaing on our roster that were projected to be there were Donald Driver and Antonio Chatman who wasn't even supposed to be a receiver but rather exclusively a returner. We filled those open spots with the great players Rod Gardner and Andrae Thruman, each of which started at some point. Gardner was acuired during the season which meant that he didn't have any chemistry with Brett, and he didn't know the playbook or the offense. Favre's receiving corps was made up of one established player in Donald Driver, a kick returner in Chatman, a bust in Gardner, and a practice squad player in Thurman. None of those last three have any business being a starter and only Chatman deserved/s to be on a roster, but even then that's as a KR and 5th WR. That's a god awful group of WRs and add to that the loss of Franks who had been a reliable target for Favre in the past especially in the redzone. Other than Driver there was no one to throw to.

The RBs left at the half way point was just Tony Fisher. He was good as a #3, but is not a guy that you want getting more than 5 carries a game. As I said earlier he also got injured, but I don't remember for how long. To replace the lost RBs we picked up Noah Herron off waivers from Pittsburgh, signed undrafted free agent out of Liberty college Samkon Gado, and promoted Reshard Lee from the practice squad. Herron would devolop into a good #3 back in the 2006 season, but wasn't much in 2005 and shouldn't ever have that much of a role in an offense. Reshard Lee was horrible, how he was even in the NFL is beyond me. He's the worst RB to ever start a game for the Packers. Samkon Gado had some success, but he was more of a feel good story and really wasn't that good of a RB. I never liked him, but he did provide more of a running game than we had before rushing for 500 yards and 6 TDs. I laughed my ass off when I saw someone in a Gado jersey. He was decent for when we had him, but trading him for Morency was a steal.

That doesn't prove that he was relying on his team for production. It proves that what he had around him in 2005 was garbage. When you lose that many offensive players and have to work with scrubs that were picked up midseason you're not going to have a great season. The fact that he was able to put up 3881 yards and 20 TDs with that team speaks more than throwing 29 INTs.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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so are we suggesting then, that stats are the only way to measure a qb? should we ignore the fact that, until his final years in the league, he never ONCE had a decent offense? that he basically carried the team to multiple super bowls? that denver was even leading washington before the defense fell apart and gave away the win? perhaps we should also ignore how good he was in the 4th quarter.

gale sayers, over his career, averaged 973 yards per season. by 2007 standards, that puts him 19th total, behind such luminaries as ryan grant and marion barber. i guess gale was really a pretty crappy running back if he was only a bit better than ryan grant.
Honestly, Terry Bradshaw reminds me of Rex Grossman with his style. He would just hang it up there and let Swan/Stallworth go and get it. Winning 4 superbowls with that defense behind you and 2 receivers who were head and heels above the rest isn't saying a whole lot. He was surrounded by a lot of talent to be putting up such bad numbers.

I watched a program the other day where the great Chuck Knoll talked about always butting heads with Terry because he couldn't stand his decision making. The two never became friends, even after retirement. I know even when Terry was embedded as the starter a few years into his career, Knoll would still bench him for entire half's at a time just to get the point across to him.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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I was trying to stay away from talking about Favre in this thread, but here is where I have to stand in. This quote shows me you know absolutely nothing about that because you couldn't be more wrong. Put any QB in their prime in that situation and they wouldn't do much better.

To start we lost our two starting guards to free agency. Marco Rivera was a probowler the three previous seasons, Mike Wahle was a probowler with the Panthers immediately after we lost him. We didn't have any options and replaced them with scrubs. Adrian Klemm and Will Whitticker were our starters. Klemm was career backup and Whitticker was our 7th round pick that year. Neither of them have been on an NFL roster since we released them after the 2005 season. Favre had no protection in the middle and very little time to throw. They also didn't help at all in providing a run game.

Then there is the mass amount of injuries we suffered throughout the season. Here was our projected supporting players for Favre:

RB: Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, Tony Fisher, Walt Williams
WR: Javon Walker, Donald Driver, Robert Ferguson, Terrence Murphy
TE: Bubba Franks, David Martin, Donald Lee

Now let's go over how these players dissapeared.

WR: Terrence Murphy our second round pick that year suffered a career ending neck injury before the season. Javon Walker coming off of a 1300 yard, 12 TD, probowl season held out all offseason and preseason. He decided to come back and play for us, but injured his knee week one against Detroit, out for the season. Robert Ferguson a second round bust was pushed into the starting role week 2 he started 7 games before being lost for the year due to injury.

RB: Walt Williams our 4th RB was lost for the season after week 3, sounds insignificant right now but keep reading. Nejeh Davenport who had been a very good #2 (hehe) back in 2003 and 2004 lost for the season in week 5 against the Saints. That was a blown, but didn't seem to be huge. That is until Ahman Green destroyed his knee the next game, also out for the season. Tony Fisher our third string back then became the starter. He was ineffective and also got injured though it wasn't season ending like all the other players so far.

TE: Bubba Franks coming off a 7 TD season the previous year was lost for the year after 8 starts. David Martin was then put in the starting role, where he was a half decent receiving option, but couldn't block which hurt our already inexpierenced and weak offensive line even more. Donald Lee became the #2 TE where he showed flashes, but he was far from the player he was last year at the time.

So a quick recap, just from that we lost the following offensive players for the season: #1 WR (Walker), #1 RB (Green), #1 TE (Franks), #2 RB (Davenport), #3 WR (Ferguson), #4 WR (Murphy)

At the half way point the only WRs we had left remaing on our roster that were projected to be there were Donald Driver and Antonio Chatman who wasn't even supposed to be a receiver but rather exclusively a returner. We filled those open spots with the great players Rod Gardner and Andrae Thruman, each of which started at some point. Gardner was acuired during the season which meant that he didn't have any chemistry with Brett, and he didn't know the playbook or the offense. Favre's receiving corps was made up of one established player in Donald Driver, a kick returner in Chatman, a bust in Gardner, and a practice squad player in Thurman. None of those last three have any business being a starter and only Chatman deserved/s to be on a roster, but even then that's as a KR and 5th WR. That's a god awful group of WRs and add to that the loss of Franks who had been a reliable target for Favre in the past especially in the redzone. Other than Driver there was no one to throw to.

The RBs left at the half way point was just Tony Fisher. He was good as a #3, but is not a guy that you want getting more than 5 carries a game. As I said earlier he also got injured, but I don't remember for how long. To replace the lost RBs we picked up Noah Herron off waivers from Pittsburgh, signed undrafted free agent out of Liberty college Samkon Gado, and promoted Reshard Lee from the practice squad. Herron would devolop into a good #3 back in the 2006 season, but wasn't much in 2005 and shouldn't ever have that much of a role in an offense. Reshard Lee was horrible, how he was even in the NFL is beyond me. He's the worst RB to ever start a game for the Packers. Samkon Gado had some success, but he was more of a feel good story and really wasn't that good of a RB. I never liked him, but he did provide more of a running game than we had before rushing for 500 yards and 6 TDs. I laughed my ass off when I saw someone in a Gado jersey. He was decent for when we had him, but trading him for Morency was a steal.

That doesn't prove that he was relying on his team for production. It proves that what he had around him in 2005 was garbage. When you lose that many offensive players and have to work with scrubs that were picked up midseason you're not going to have a great season. The fact that he was able to put up 3881 yards and 20 TDs with that team speaks more than throwing 29 INTs.


I think he was trying to do too much with not enough talent around.

Everyone relies on their team in one way or another. No QB or any player for that matter can be individually critiqued. You must factor in who they played with, the scheme, and the era when trying to break down players.

Favre is a great example. Great QB's can be very average without talent surrounding them. When they have talent ( like Favre did in his MVP years) they can be truly amazing.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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I was thinking that exact thing about Favre this past week. How impressive it is that he did what he did, with the majority of receivers, backs, and also worth mentioning, coaches too! The best he had was ... Chimura? Oy.

If Holmgren had spent his Seattle years sticking with Green Bay, and/or Ron Wolf stayed with the franchise, what could have been.

Granted, it's probably the best situation now of Favre's career, even if he is making these guys look better. Driver and Jennings can play, Jones might develop further, and they added Jordy Nelson (all jokes aside) this past April. Donald Lee is a promising tight end who fits in the above. Quantity over quality, but there's quality in this quantity, if that makes sense.

Favre all but delivered a motivated Randy Moss to the Packers last offseason, it's not his fault it didn't happen.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Passer Rating is my go to stat. Let me compare the popular QBS
Baugh- Led league in passer rating 4 times(37,40,45,47).
Graham- Led League 4 times(47,49,52,55) 47, 49 AAFC
Unitas- Led League 3 times (57,58,65)
Starr- Led league 3 times(62,64,66)
Staubach- Led league 4 times(71,73,78,79)
Montana- Lead league twice(87,89)
Marino- Lead league once(84)
Elway- None
Young- Six times (91,92,93,94,96,97)
Favre- None
Manning- Three times(04,05,06
Brady- Once(07)
Take that how you want it.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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I'm not a big Marino guy, myself.

Although I wish I had seen him play his first few years in the league, in his prime.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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Montana, Favre, Marino, Unitas, and Elway with Manning, Brady, and Graham in the conversation. Right now I like to think that in some order those first five are the definite big 5 but by the end of their careers Manning and Brady will push one or two guys out - probably Favre and Marino. Otto Graham was probably a little before the brand the of football we know today, he was from the 40s and 50s and his accomplishments dont have common ground as the other QBs in the discussion.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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First off, who determined he was the 3rd best QB last year or in recent years?

Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisbergr, Carson Palmer, and Drew Brees could all be argued as better than Favre recently.

Second, this isn't who is currently the best and what age they played at. It's top 5 QB's, which he is not.

Favre is good, Favre is exciting, he's great for football, and he took a lot of unnecessary risks and he lost a lot of games by making stupid decisions.

He is nowhere near as good of a QB as Elway, Montana, Marino, Unitas, Starr, etc....

Too many of you don't know any history of the game. You swear the guys you have watched for the past 5-10 years is what the league is made out of.

Favre didn't even dominate his era. He was one of the best in his era, but didn't dominate it like some others had in the past. Learn a thing or two before you post. You're like the people who pick Champ over Deion because Champ is the only one you've seen play.
Ok, Romo better than Favre over the past 3 years or so? this is where this just becomes a major homer fest. Come on. And before you spew stats at me, remember that Romo played on a better Dallas team than what Favre had over the past few years. I'm no Favre fan, and yes, aot of his records came due to playing a lot, but what did you want him to do? Sit while mildly injured? Not throw TD's while playing or being hurt? There's quite a bit of stretching going on to hate on Favre. A guy who I think is ******* his team over currently, so ya can't call me a Favre fan
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