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Old 07-15-2008, 04:18 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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And because Hamlin was a probowler he is just as good as Sanders? Alright, lets crown Roy Williams DPOY, he made it too last year
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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LMAO...Ken Hamlin better than the DPOY. You've said some crazy things before D, but this might top them all.
I'm ready for you to back that up.

Don't tell me because he gets more hype. LOL.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Ken Hamlin: 62 tackles
Bob Sanders: 97 tackles
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I don't have to watch it to know it was not interesting.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
I'm ready for you to back that up.

Don't tell me because he gets more hype. LOL.
...because he won defensive player of the year? and Hamlin didn't?

Seriously, this is like comparing Derek Anderson to Tom Brady because they both made the pro bowl. One is FAR AND AWAY better than the other. Turtle beat me to the stats.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:23 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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But Tom brady wishes he was half the ball hawk Anderson is
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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And because Hamlin was a probowler he is just as good as Sanders? Alright, lets crown Roy Williams DPOY, he made it too last year
Seriously... DPOY just goes to the most valuable defensive player on a good overrated defense. It by no means says he the best overall defensive player in the league. LOL.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Wow, just wow, what about the tackle stats D? Also, remember Bob played less games as well won't you? Bob > Ken.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Seriously... DPOY just goes to the most valuable defensive player on a good overrated defense. It by no means says he the best overall defensive player in the league. LOL.
How about YOU back up your statement that he is overrated?
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Turtlepower View Post
Ken Hamlin: 62 tackles
Bob Sanders: 97 tackles
Total Tackles? HAHAHAHA

You realize that stat is relative? Cowboys had better tacklers up front than Colts. Could also mean Sanders was targeted more because he is an easier target. Etc etc...

Hamlin had 98 tackles his rookie year! More than Sanders has ever had, so what? Hamlin was better as a rookie than Sanders was last year as DPOY? Yeah buddy, nice logic.

I dare you to show me the rest of the stats like Interceptions and Pass Deflections... Stats that are more indicative of individual play and ability.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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I just think that with a top-flight quarterback like Romo, Choice and Jones are more than enough talent at RB imo, I'd rather invest in Ware and the WRs. Give Romo the receiving options and he can shine.

Wide receiver-wise, I would have waited for Roy Williams to have reached free agency soon, or try and pry Anquan Boldin from Arizona. I agree though, this is why I would have liked the Cowboys to draft (Devin Thomas!) or at least trade for a receiver now, to start developing him now and building a dynamic with Romo. By putting it off and depending on what happens, they may reach the point where they have to use free agency instead of the Draft.

But maybe they can pick up some servicable, underrated veterans to help hold the fort. New Orleans locked up David Patten for two years, but Bobby Engram is great and is in his contract year with Seattle. Joe Horn has been brought up already. Or look for guys who haven't panned out in lesser offenses, maybe a guy like Michael Jenkins of the Falcons could do better things in a potent offense such as the one the Cowboys have.

Torry Holt plans on leaving St. Louis in two years, but obviously it's no secret that I'm not a fan of him and wouldn't pay him what he's seeking. TJ Houshmandzadeh will command too much money when he's a FA after this season, I think Chad Johnson actually is the one to stay in Cincy.
I, as well as other Cowboy fans are high on Miles Austin as a guy who could end up being a number 1.

I personally am not a Roy Williams fan. He is going to command top 3-5 money, which I don't think is reasonable for a guy who has only broken 1000 yards ONCE, has NEVER had double digit touchdowns, and has only made it through a full season ONCE.

I would like to have a receiver, but no way do I trust using Felix Jones and Tashard Choice.

Overall, too much emphasis is being put on the Cowboy offense. For now, and probably for next year, we are fine. It is the defense that has let the team down time and time again.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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Total Tackles? HAHAHAHA

You realize that stat is relative? Cowboys had better tacklers up front than Colts. Could also mean Sanders was targeted more because he is an easier target. Etc etc...

Hamlin had 98 tackles his rookie year! More than Sanders has ever had, so what? Hamlin was better as a rookie than Sanders was last year as DPOY? Yeah buddy, nice logic.

I dare you to show me the rest of the stats like Interceptions and Pass Deflections... Stats that are more indicative of individual play and ability.
That's a double edged sword. If you want to argue he got more tackles because of worse play up front, that also has an effect on QB pressure. Which of course has an effect on interceptions.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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How about YOU back up your statement that he is overrated?
Where did I say that? He deserves respect, but to say Dallas overpaid for Hamlin by comparing it to Sanders' contract is where I had to step in. If Sanders is deserving of his contract, Hamlin is most certainly deserving of his.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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That's a double edged sword. If you want to argue he got more tackles because of worse play up front, that also has an effect on QB pressure. Which of course has an effect on interceptions.
So basically, you have nothing to prove to me to substantiate your claim except that he won the DPOY award? LOL. Cute.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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So basically, you have nothing to prove to me to substantiate your claim except that he won the DPOY award? LOL. Cute.
If you want to refute the other evidence like tackles and actually watching the two people play, then sure.

I still find it funny that you're even arguing this because it's arguing a fringe pro bowler against possibly the best defensive player in the game. Just so happens the fringe player is on your favorite team...
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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I just think that with a top-flight quarterback like Romo, Choice and Jones are more than enough talent at RB imo, I'd rather invest in Ware and the WRs. Give Romo the receiving options and he can shine.

Wide receiver-wise, I would have waited for Roy Williams to have reached free agency soon, or try and pry Anquan Boldin from Arizona. I agree though, this is why I would have liked the Cowboys to draft (Devin Thomas!) or at least trade for a receiver now, to start developing him now and building a dynamic with Romo. By putting it off and depending on what happens, they may reach the point where they have to use free agency instead of the Draft.

But maybe they can pick up some servicable, underrated veterans to help hold the fort. New Orleans locked up David Patten for two years, but Bobby Engram is great and is in his contract year with Seattle. Joe Horn has been brought up already. Or look for guys who haven't panned out in lesser offenses, maybe a guy like Michael Jenkins of the Falcons could do better things in a potent offense such as the one the Cowboys have.
Nah. Romo needs protection and a guy like Barber who can block the blizter, run the ball and catch out of the backfield as a safety net.

As for Devin Thomas. That makes me :( I wanted Mike Jenkins and Devin Thomas in Round 1 and Jamaal Charles in Round 2. That would've been perfection, imo.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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Seriously... DPOY just goes to the most valuable defensive player on a good overrated defense. It by no means says he the best overall defensive player in the league. LOL.
there so overrated that they were in the top 2 in th league for pass defense, even with the lost of their best pass rusher, and 3rd in total defense.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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They both played different roles as Safeties. Bob Sanders is in the box (like Roy Williams is supposed to be) and Hamlin is Deep most of the time.

Hamlin has to stay deep to not only watch his side of the field, but to cover for Williams fat ass when he blows a play.

Even with the deep roaming ballhawk role, Hamlin mad an impact in the run game. I'm satisfied with him. Although I think the contract could have been 3-4 mil less and he still would have signed.

I don't know yet about Bob Sanders as the all mighty Safety in the league though. They seem to change year in, year out.

One year its Ed Reed, The next its Polumalu, Then Sean Taylor, Now Sanders.

I personally believe Ed Reed is still the best safety in the game, but public opinion changes every year. If this years top defense has a good safety, he could easily be vaulted to the top of the list.

I have no doubt that if the jets or cardinals somehow put together a top 3 defense that both Kerry Rhodes and Adrian Wilson would be "the best safetiezz in the game!!!!!"

None of this is meant to take away from Sanders either. I think he is great. I would kill to have him as part of my team. He makes the colts defense what it is. Just pointing out the pattern that is the NFL hype machine.

EDIT: I don't think D is bashing Sanders either. He is good in his role. Both got contracts that were deserving of their play. That is all he is trying to point out.

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Old 07-15-2008, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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If you want to refute the other evidence like tackles and actually watching the two people play, then sure.

I still find it funny that you're even arguing this because it's arguing a fringe pro bowler against possibly the best defensive player in the game. Just so happens the fringe player is on your favorite team...
Well I did watch Hamlin intercept 5 passes and break up 15 passes last year. Sanders had what? 2 INTs and a measley 6 PBs? No wonder he is so elite. LMAO. Total tackle numbers doesn't substantiate your point. It's too reliant on other factors.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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there so overrated that they were in the top 2 in th league for pass defense, even with the lost of their best pass rusher, and 3rd in total defense.
Did he have to play next to Roy Williams??? OOh got you there. ;)

But what about the Colt's offense eating up so much clock that the Defense hardly needed to see the field? These stats are all so fickle.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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and interceptions arent? everything is reliant on other factors...
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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and interceptions arent? everything is reliant on other factors...
Yeah, but look at their careers at a whole. Hamlin's numbers significantly better than Sanders. As far as being a ballhawk in INTs and PBUs, Hamlin is undoubtedly better. As far as being good tacklers, they're both in the same league. Sanders plays a bigger role as far as being an emotional leader for the team, so more attention is brought on to him. Hamlin is an unsung leader on a team full of media attention grabbers.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Did he have to play next to Roy Williams??? OOh got you there. ;)

But what about the Colt's offense eating up so much clock that the Defense hardly needed to see the field? These stats are all so fickle.
So that makes NE, SD, and your own Cowboys' defense overrated? You saw how terrible their defense was and what a big difference it made once Sanders was back on that field.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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So that makes NE, SD, and your own Cowboys' defense overrated? You saw how terrible their defense was and what a big difference it made once Sanders was back on that field.
Cowboys actually won a lot of games in which we lost TOP. Quick strike offense and ****** defense will help that.
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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I won't pretend to have watched near as much of Hamlin as I have of Sanders, there's no doubt that I have not. But having watched every snap Sanders has taken the last three years, he has a penchant for making a big play that can affect the rest of the game and his presence on the field uplifts the rest of the defense. I thought Sanders deserved the DPOTY award last year, if Haynesworth had played more games and played them at the level he displayed, he would have likely won.

Sanders can still get better, as noted he's mainly used opposite to a ballhawk role so pass coverage probably represents the greatest area of improvement left in his game. And just staying healthy of course.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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So that makes NE, SD, and your own Cowboys' defense overrated? You saw how terrible their defense was and what a big difference it made once Sanders was back on that field.
Actually, yes. If anyone overrated the Cowboys defense last year, shame on them. I thought the defense was especially soft and we battled injuries without good detph. I think Zach Thomas will raise the D to another level. His impact for us will be huge... at least I think so. Pacman and Mike Jenkins should also do wonders to help us generate more pass rush from our DEs.
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