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Old 08-01-2008, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Burns336 View Post
Sophomore slump for Bowe. You heard it hear first. haha.

In all seriousness, with LJ back he should be able to improve. I imagine LJ is going to have a crappy season though.
I think people are sleeping on LJ big time, but I still don't think the Chiefs will be good.
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Old 08-01-2008, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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i think LJ is done, like another injury, but Jamaal Charles is gonna step up big times
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Old 08-01-2008, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to go ahead and say John Elway was a better prospect than Calvin Johnson.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to go ahead and say John Elway was a better prospect than Calvin Johnson.
Not as a WR. :D


Seriously though, Calvin is in that category of just absolutely can't miss elite prospects.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Bowe was my favorite player in that draft. God, I wanted him on the Cowboys SO BAD.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Bowe was my favorite player in that draft. God, I wanted him on the Cowboys SO BAD.
At least you didn't settle for Buster Davis hoping some Bowe had rubbed off on him. He's fallen behind Legedu Naanee (beast!!!) on the depth chart in addition to waiting in line behind Gates, Chambers, Jackson, and of course LT.

I'm normally all for defending Charger players but I have a suspicion that Eric Parker, absurdly clutch for us for so many years, got cut so that Buster could at least compete for a spot in the rotation, and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Randy Moss?
Calvin was a better prospect that Moss, no doubt. Moss had no where near the build and total package that Calvin came in with. Moss wasn't a slouch, but Calvin came in with the build of a man who could take the beating, and handle defenders, versus Moss with his thinner build who didn't have near the muscle
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Old 08-01-2008, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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The Chiefs are going to be a bad team again this year but I think Bowe will actually improve. Improved offensive line and healthy LJ will mean more opportunities for Bowe.

As far as Calvin Johnson goes, dude is a BEAST and will continue to be a beast for a while. Bowe did have a better rookie year but Calvin was injured. He's going to explode this year imo.
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Old 08-01-2008, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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I hate the lions seems like every draft they take my fav player cj, sims, mike williams, yes i said mike williams.
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Old 08-01-2008, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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y the hell is mike williams one of ur fav players i would rather have charles rogers babysit my kids
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Old 08-01-2008, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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I think CJ is gonna be pretty valuable to this Lions team.

But this is dependent on how the RBs shape up. Kitna delivers for a ton of yards and a bunch of TDs, but his problem, at least in Detroit, has always been his INTs. That shouldn't affect Johnson much.

I suspect that the team wants to eventually deal Williams, so they need to test Johnson and see how good he is in terms of a number one receiver. CJ will continue to grow and learn, even if he is a Lion.
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Old 08-02-2008, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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y the hell is mike williams one of ur fav players i would rather have charles rogers babysit my kids
i ment during draft time i wanted mike, and i thought like others he was gonna be a beast
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Old 08-02-2008, 01:02 AM    (permalink
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Not as a WR. :D


Seriously though, Calvin is in that category of just absolutely can't miss elite prospects.
Elway had the complete package for a QB back in the day and he was also at one time considered the can't miss prospect. His hype was insane too.
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Old 08-02-2008, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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You know which other WR continues to tear up camp?

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Old 08-02-2008, 01:22 AM    (permalink
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You know which other WR continues to tear up camp?

Yes, as I've heard. One of the more talented yet least talked about star receivers in the game today imo.
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Old 08-02-2008, 02:51 AM    (permalink
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Bowe had the upside of being the only explosive option on that offense, while Calvin Johnson was battling back pain all year. Not to say that Bowe wasn't easily the best rookie wideout, but even with the injury Johnson made some plays that I don't think Bowe will ever make.
Ever heard of Tony Gonzalez? Hell, even if Bowe was the only explosive option that would just mean he could be double teamed every play since nobody else would scare a defense. I'm not sure how that argument would hurt his case.

And Bowe made plenty of great plays of his own. He made some of the most acrobatic catches I have ever seen.

I guess I shouldn't expect an intelligent argument from an ignorant Oakland fan.
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Old 08-02-2008, 02:54 AM    (permalink
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i think LJ is done, like another injury, but Jamaal Charles is gonna step up big times
Wow, LJ has his first major injury throughout his entire college or NFL career and now he is injury prone? Give me a break. His injury was not at all related to his 400+ carry season in the first place. It was a freak injury.

LJ is completely healthy and looks great in camp. Sorry to burst your bubble.
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Old 08-02-2008, 03:09 AM    (permalink
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Ever heard of Tony Gonzalez? Hell, even if Bowe was the only explosive option that would just mean he could be double teamed every play since nobody else would scare a defense. I'm not sure how that argument would hurt his case.

And Bowe made plenty of great plays of his own. He made some of the most acrobatic catches I have ever seen.

I guess I shouldn't expect an intelligent argument from an ignorant Oakland fan.
Eloquently put.

No matter how you look at it, Bowe played healthy last year and Johnson played hurt. If Bowe is the better receiver, and I don't want to take anything away from him, because he's a great receiver, then using last year as a barometer would be a mistake, because the guy you're measuring him against wasn't 100% for the only action he's seen in the NFL to date. And even with being injured and targeted 28 times less than Bowe, Calvin Johnson caught one less score and had a higher yards per catch.

Let's just sit and wait and see how they perform this year.

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Wow, LJ has his first major injury throughout his entire college or NFL career and now he is injury prone? Give me a break. His injury was not at all related to his 400+ carry season in the first place. It was a freak injury.

LJ is completely healthy and looks great in camp. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Someone doesn't understand what constitutes a freak injury. Landing on your arm funny with a 400 lbs. man on top of your and breaking it is a freak accident. Placing a fairly normal amount of stress upon a section of the body which has been run into the ground the previous season to a degree that no player has ever done before, is not a freak injury. It's something giving out.

Add in that Johnson passed a mark which, when passed, has historically meant that the player never returns to his previous form (except with one player, Eric Dickerson), and there's little reason to assume that Johnson can return to his peak form, and a million good reasons to think he can't.
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Old 08-02-2008, 03:50 AM    (permalink
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Eloquently put.

No matter how you look at it, Bowe played healthy last year and Johnson played hurt. If Bowe is the better receiver, and I don't want to take anything away from him, because he's a great receiver, then using last year as a barometer would be a mistake, because the guy you're measuring him against wasn't 100% for the only action he's seen in the NFL to date. And even with being injured and targeted 28 times less than Bowe, Calvin Johnson caught one less score and had a higher yards per catch.

Let's just sit and wait and see how they perform this year.



Someone doesn't understand what constitutes a freak injury. Landing on your arm funny with a 400 lbs. man on top of your and breaking it is a freak accident. Placing a fairly normal amount of stress upon a section of the body which has been run into the ground the previous season to a degree that no player has ever done before, is not a freak injury. It's something giving out.

Add in that Johnson passed a mark which, when passed, has historically meant that the player never returns to his previous form (except with one player, Eric Dickerson), and there's little reason to assume that Johnson can return to his peak form, and a million good reasons to think he can't.
AJ Hawk tackled LJ from behind and his body landed on the back of LJs foot. I don't quite understand your previous point. This is not something giving out. This is a 250 pound manbeast landing his body on the back of your leg, heh.

Ladanian Tomlinson is considered the best back in the league, and for good reason. When it's all said and done, he'll probably go down as one of the (if not the) greatest back to ever play this game, but let's look at some stats. Feel 100% absolutely free to challenge these stats as it's almost 4am and I've been up almost 24 hours at this point.

He has 2,365 career carries which ranks 20th in NFL history. Of the 45 running backs with the most rushing attempts in the history of the NFL, Tomlinson has played by far the fewest number of seasons. He's been worked extremely hard. Tomlinson has also averaged (roughly) 338 carries over the past seven seasons and is coming off of an MCL injury.

My point is this. I don't get how people can look at LJ and think he's done, that his career is over. He has a lot less mileage than many backs in this league and his injury wasn't as severe as some others, yet these other backs are talked about as if they're bulletproof, no amount of carries will phase them, etc. but LJs career is in decline. After two and a half years starting. I just don't get it.

While I will agree that this "magic number" has a very negative history associated with it, how many of the previous backs that you mentioned have played as little as LJ has? What's their starting experience like? How many years did they play before reaching that milestone?

That was all jumbled and probably didn't flow very well but it's 4am and I'm going to sleep!
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Old 08-02-2008, 04:18 AM    (permalink
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As for the injury thing, my main irk is the idea that all injuries can be called "freak" injuries. They all happen on one play because something that stressed something on that play. But stress over a long period makes those things much easier.

As for your question about the magic number, I'll take the closest example.

Jamaal Anderson at 25 - 536 carries, 2218 yards (4.1 YPC)
Larry Johnson at 26 - 476 carries, 2416 yards (5.1 YPC)

Jamaal Anderson's next season - 410 carries, 1846 yards (4.5 YPC)
Larry Johnson's next season - 416 carries, 1789 yards (4.3 YPC)

Both players had very disappointing follow up campaigns (Johnson was inconsistent beyond simply Kansas City's offensive line woes even before he went out in the Green Bay game). Anderson had a resurgence in the year following that, but was essentially out of football by the age of 29. I don't wish a ruined career on Larry Johnson, not even close. But to act like there's not substantial reason to be very worried about Larry Johnson is ignoring the reality of the situation.
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Old 08-02-2008, 05:00 AM    (permalink
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Especially since he has 2 really promising young RBs right behind him. The FO wouldnt have went out there and picked a RB if there werent at least concerned about the position. Its not like they didnt have other holes to fill
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Old 08-02-2008, 06:15 AM    (permalink
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Especially since he has 2 really promising young RBs right behind him. The FO wouldnt have went out there and picked a RB if there werent at least concerned about the position. Its not like they didnt have other holes to fill
Can never have to many RB's, its arguably the most desperate position for depth in all of football. With the beating these guys take and the run style some teams like to use right now, I don't believe any team is completely settled on the RB position nor will they ever be. Not to mention, a lot of people think Jammal Charles was really good value for where KC got him.
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Old 08-02-2008, 06:56 AM    (permalink
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yes so why shouldnt we be concerned for LJ if he is already injured. "With the beating" he will get, it could turn out the way i said
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Old 08-02-2008, 10:13 AM    (permalink
OzTitan
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I never really understand the whole 400 carry thing. So a back who does 399 carries is safe? 389? 379? where is the cut off point? I know there is history, but the Madden curse has history too. With that said, it seems more like a curse than a true issue.

And LJ had 13 carries in the playoffs that year, being beat in the WC round. I'm sure there are players who went above LJ's 06 season total across regular season and playoffs and they were ok. Or at least, I'm sure there have been backs who went over 400 into the playoffs and were ok. Is condensing it into 2, 3 games less like LJ did really that big a deal?
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Old 08-02-2008, 10:23 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Johnson may not put up fancy stats this year if Marinelli decides Smith is good enough to use to pound the ball on offense. This isn't Martz's offense any longer and Johnson may well find himself playing second fiddle to Roy Williams on the few occassions Detroit decides to throw the ball.

As for Oakland drafting Russell over Johnson, it was a no brainer. Talent wise Russell has a real shot at being among the top 5 QB's in the league within 3 years if he can be committed to being great which is unknown just yet. Russell has the best raw skills of any QB since Palmer was drafted but of course that doesn't guarantee success unless he has the mind and determination to reach his potential.
A successful career by Russell and within 3 yeasrs Okland will be a serious Super Bowl contender. A successful career by Johnson and Detroit is still a last place team, so tell me again who you would draft.
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