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View Poll Results: Who is the worst of these teams?
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 6 5.88%
Philadelphia Eagles 0 0%
New Orleans Saints 1 0.98%
Houston Texans 31 30.39%
Buffalo Bills 29 28.43%
Tennessee Titans 24 23.53%
Washington Redskins 4 3.92%
Green Bay Packers 3 2.94%
Minnesota Vikings 1 0.98%
Cleveland Browns 3 2.94%
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-05-2008, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ALD View Post
Just wondering how much of Trent Edwards you watched last season? I know he was a rookie but he was one of the most impressive rookie QBs I've seen. He made quick decisions, moved very well in the pocket to buy time and was very careful and accurate with the ball. I have a lot of confidence in him succeeding, especially if Turk opens the passing game up a little more. Plus you can't ignore what a quality oline and running game can do for a young QB.

Hardy doesn't even need to be good to have a big impact on the passing attack. The simple fact that he's over 5' and can jump changes the whole dynamic of that passing game, playing buffalo you used to never have to worry about someone actually coming down with a jumpball, now teams do, that'll be huge in terms of changing the spacing for the other receivers, which is why I expect Hardy to have very tame numbers outside the redzone, but for Evans to explode.

You know who started in their secondary last year? A converted WR, Wilson, and 23 pound Jabari Greer. Having Ko back to start next to Whitner and having a corner who isn't thinner than my left leg will mean a significant upgrade. Add to that the increased depth due to so many different guys getting PT due to injuries and performing, again 8-8 with the most season ending injuries and games missed by starters, the D should be around middle of the pack.

The Pass rush is still in need of a stud, but they were productive last season and McCargo should have even more of impact as a pass rusher now that Stroud's there to eat up double teams. It's not as good as my gmen, but it's solid and the bills have a bunch of high motor guys to rotate and keep people fresh.

Plus they should be able to blitz their LBs more unless they get murdered by injuries again.
My only issues are that we were 7-9, not 8-8, last year, and that Jabari Greer is probably still going to start, and he's not that bad. Some trouble tackling and he got abused by Moss, yes, but he's not the worst option. George Wilson was bleh, he was good for not blowing gimme interceptions. Ko should be a big improvement. Hopefully with Stroud (who has been looking very good) and Posluszny in there, Crowell won't have to make every tackle, that's what I'm excited for. That and Lynch/Jackson, of course.
I can't fault people for voting us now, mostly just because of Edwards. There's too much yet to be seen with him. But I've been saying Houston for a little while now, and really think they should drop before us.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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My only issues are that we were 7-9, not 8-8, last year, and that Jabari Greer is probably still going to start, and he's not that bad. Some trouble tackling and he got abused by Moss, yes, but he's not the worst option. George Wilson was bleh, he was good for not blowing gimme interceptions. Ko should be a big improvement. Hopefully with Stroud (who has been looking very good) and Posluszny in there, Crowell won't have to make every tackle, that's what I'm excited for. That and Lynch/Jackson, of course.
I can't fault people for voting us now, mostly just because of Edwards. There's too much yet to be seen with him. But I've been saying Houston for a little while now, and really think they should drop before us.
Greer's fine except he lacks any type of strength to go up against more physical receivers

With Stroud and Puz the d should be a lot better at stuffing the run.

As for Edwards I don't mind people doubting, as there's a lot of reasons to do so, but I was incredibly impressed watching him, for a rookie he waas remarkably calm and collected.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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next thread or two you got to put Steelers on there
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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I still say Tamp Bay.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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I really don't know how anyone can vote outside of Buffalo or Houston, honestly. Neither deserve to be ranked better than any of the other teams listed.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:53 AM    (permalink
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I really don't know how anyone can vote outside of Buffalo or Houston, honestly. Neither deserve to be ranked better than any of the other teams listed.
Marshawn Lynch > Tennessee's entire team.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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I like what the Texans are doing, theyre on the way up, but right now they arent better than Tennessee.
Offensivly there isnt much there outside of Andre Johnson. On defense they have a lot of good young players like Williams, Okoye and Ryans.
If they can get another good pass rusher on that Dline it will make their pitiful, possibly Dunta Robinson-less secondary look average.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:31 AM    (permalink
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I like what the Texans are doing too, I just take exception to the free rides some teams get if they push all the right off season buttons. I like teams to earn respect before they make jumps on my board, and I don't think the Texans have earnt the right to be ranked above the Titans. I think people are just getting caught up the their rising stock, and the Titans lowering stock (for whatever reason that is). The Titans had a slightly tougher or just as tough schedule last year, they played better football over 16 games beating them twice, and it's not like the Texans had a killer offseason on paper, so color me very, very confused as to why it seems most of NFLDC think they are the better team. I can tolerate those who think the Titans will finish last in the South but this is a little far, to put it bluntly.

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Old 08-06-2008, 01:34 AM    (permalink
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Marshawn Lynch > Tennessee's entire team.
Marshawn Lynch > The entire NFL(including Adrian Peterson, he's just a diesel and needed more time to get warmed up).
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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I really don't know how anyone can vote outside of Buffalo or Houston, honestly. Neither deserve to be ranked better than any of the other teams listed.
I wouldn't agree, as to me the Bills have a better defense and a better runningback than the Bucs, and Houston has a better offense (don't underestimate that unit, trust me) and better front seven than the Bucs. I honestly don't fear a single player on Tampa's roster, Brooks and Barber are in their twilight.

I would rank the Cardinals, Bengals, and Bears ahead of the Bucs. Except for safeties, the Bears' defense run circles around Tampa's defense at the remaining three levels (DL, LB, CB). It's amazing to me how an incredibly injury-striken season for the Bears' defense can make people forget that.

I'd consider including Baltimore too if they could give Troy Smith a competent offensive line, because their defense when healthy is superior to the Bucs. I'm sure this will piss off some Bucs fans and they'll rush to bring up stats from last year, but I really don't care about the stats from last year when I see with my own eyes that the situation is such that Tanard Jackson is the player I'd be most concerned with.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:52 AM    (permalink
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I think that's why you bunch them closely, but to put theory ahead of reality? I'm not a fan myself. This is probably the first time the Texans have been considered a 10-20 team by most people ever, but I need something more than on paper speculation to list them ahead of teams that are a little more proven.

The Buccs are borderline due to some age concerns, so I think that can justify some teams ahead of them but at this point, 18 and 17 should be between the Bills and Texans IMO. I have my opinions on how I think the season will go down too, but when it comes to ranking teams I think a more logical and reasonable approach is better suited than wild prediction.
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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Here's an interesting article on team records last season:

http://www.footballsfuture.com/nfl/2008/predicting.html

Just goes to show what a difference a couple bounces can make.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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Pretty typical. That article first goes to say a "2 net close wins" team is 11%more likely to get a worse record the next season than a "3 net close wins" team, and yet the Jaguars (a 2 net close wins team) can repeat a 11 win season apparently, but the Titans (a 3 net close wins team) will win 6 or 7 games. He then suggests he likes the Jaguars style for this to happen, which is basically the same as the Titans, completely ignoring their D.

Secondly, the author fails to acknowledge a pattern. The more net close wins, the less chance the team will have a worse record the next season, at least that's what his data suggests. That tells me something - perhaps it is the team's style of football, not so much "luck", that is at play when you start getting 3 or more "net close wins". Say, a run first team with a good D with a coach who gets a woody for having a late field goal lead (in case you didn't realize, I just described the Titans). The only lucky break the Titans had last season was not having to play the Colts starters in week 17 - every other win was basically just a case of good defense not letting the other offense score more.

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Old 08-06-2008, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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Great article, but I could summarize it in one sentence spoken in my best John Madden voice. "If you're really good, you can only go down and if you're really bad, you can only get better an - an - an - an Brett Favre is in my opinion uhhh... the best quarter back that I've ever seen."
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't agree, as to me the Bills have a better defense and a better runningback than the Bucs, and Houston has a better offense (don't underestimate that unit, trust me) and better front seven than the Bucs.


Except for the DL, the Bucs are better at the remaining positions (LB, CB, S). Plus, the Bills DL isn't very good either.

I can understand that you think that Bills are better than Tampa Bay, but to say that they have a better D is pretty foolish.


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Except for safeties, the Bears' defense run circles around Tampa's defense at the remaining three levels (DL, LB, CB). It's amazing to me how an incredibly injury-striken season for the Bears' defense can make people forget that.
I agree that the Bears D is better than the Bucs one, but Tampa Bay is way better in offense. Except for maybe Kreutz, the Bears OL simply sucks while the Bucs have a pretty good one. Garcia is better than Grossman. Graham/Dunn/Williams are better than any of the Bears RBs. Both WR squad sucks, but the Bucs have Joey Galloway. At least, the Bears have a terrific TE combinaison, but that's it.

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I really don't care about the stats from last year when I see with my own eyes that the situation is such that Tanard Jackson is the player I'd be most concerned with.
True, the Bucs don't have any franchise defensive player as for now. But they have a lot of good players at each spot. Barret Ruud, Ronde Barber, Jermaine Phillips, Tanard Jackson, Cato June, Jovan Haye, Derrick Brooks and Gaines Adams/Greg White are all very good players. Plus, Monte Kiffin is their DC. This is a top 10 defense.

They look like Jags D. Both need to add Pass Rush to become a dominant defense. But they are still very good squad. For the poll, I think that Buffalo, Houston, Washington and Tennessee are weaker team than the Bucs.

By the way, I think that Barrett Ruud, Jermaine Phillips, Ronde Barber and maybe Derrick Brooks or Cato June are better than Tanard Jackson today. However, T-Jax will probably become a regular Pro-Bowler in a few years.

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Old 08-06-2008, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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Bills, young QB and the defense is still up in the air
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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The Titans can't be this low after their record and how they played last year.
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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The Titans can't be this low after their record and how they played last year.
That's what I'm thinking.
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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Texans < Titans < Bills imo
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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I would say the final three teams are Buffalo, Houston and Green Bay.

Now that Green Bay is without Favre, I think they are bound to struggle. At least for Aaron Rodger's first season as the full-time starter. They're not going to go 6-10 or anything, I just don't see a winning season, let alone playoffs for the Packers.

The Texans aren't a bad team, they are just in a really good division. When you have three teams that are capable of playoff births, then being in last place at 7-9 isn't a horrible deal. Gary Kubiak has proven to be a good coach so far, and I think he gets the Texans at 8-8 this season.

I have to give my vote to the Bills. There is still a concern at quarterback. They know who they want to start, but he still has to prove that he is the man to go with. I'm expecting the defense to be inconsistent this season, especially at the defensive line.

My vote is for the Bills
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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I would say the final three teams are Buffalo, Houston and Green Bay.

Now that Green Bay is without Favre, I think they are bound to struggle. At least for Aaron Rodger's first season as the full-time starter. They're not going to go 6-10 or anything, I just don't see a winning season, let alone playoffs for the Packers.

The Texans aren't a bad team, they are just in a really good division. When you have three teams that are capable of playoff births, then being in last place at 7-9 isn't a horrible deal. Gary Kubiak has proven to be a good coach so far, and I think he gets the Texans at 8-8 this season.

I have to give my vote to the Bills. There is still a concern at quarterback. They know who they want to start, but he still has to prove that he is the man to go with. I'm expecting the defense to be inconsistent this season, especially at the defensive line.

My vote is for the Bills
I disagree....I think if you match up the Bills to the Texans, the Bills still come out on top. I think Schaub and Edwards actually balance out given the amount of actual starting experience each has and the fact that both missed time with injuries last year. Plus I like Lynch more than anyone the Texans will have running the ball, and I like the Bills receiving corps as a whole better than the Texans. The only spot on offense the Texans have an advantage imo on offense is at TE with Daniels.

On defense, the Bills will be getting a lot of guys back from injuries, especially linebackers. Demeco is a beast but off the top of my head, I can't name for sure who the Texans other starters will be. In terms of the secondaries, I favor the Bills a little more. I like their safeties...prolly about even at CB unless Dunta Robinson is back healthy for the Texans. Texas do have the advantage at DL but I don't think its by too terribly much....
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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I disagree....I think if you match up the Bills to the Texans, the Bills still come out on top. I think Schaub and Edwards actually balance out given the amount of actual starting experience each has and the fact that both missed time with injuries last year. Plus I like Lynch more than anyone the Texans will have running the ball, and I like the Bills receiving corps as a whole better than the Texans. The only spot on offense the Texans have an advantage imo on offense is at TE with Daniels.

On defense, the Bills will be getting a lot of guys back from injuries, especially linebackers. Demeco is a beast but off the top of my head, I can't name for sure who the Texans other starters will be. In terms of the secondaries, I favor the Bills a little more. I like their safeties...prolly about even at CB unless Dunta Robinson is back healthy for the Texans. Texas do have the advantage at DL but I don't think its by too terribly much....
I gotta disagree with your assessment of the Bills vs. Texans offense. I think Schaub or even Rosenfels if anything happens to Schaub will put up significantly better numbers than Edwards next year. Schaub had over 10% on his completion percentage compared to Edwards as well as 1.7 more yards per attempt. I understand Edwards was a rook but I think Schaub is going to improve quite a bit in his second year as a starter as well.

As far as the wide receiver corps go unless Hardy really makes a big time impact as a rookie I don't see how the Bills are any better than the Texans here. Andre is better than Evans, Kevin Walter quietly caught 65 balls last year as a second option in his first year as a starter and Andre Davis was a great third option. Jacoby Jones should get better and I don't see Josh Reed, Roscoe Parrish and the other Bills receivers doing any better than their Texan counterparts.

Lynch is definitely better than anyone the Texans have at RB but I think the Texans are going to run the ball a lot better than they did last year because of Alex Gibbs and the fact that there will be some speed at the position. Pretty much the top three or four options for the Texans are RB are better than Ron Dayne so even after the inevitable injuries there should be improvement.

The defenses are wild cards for both teams and I'm not really going to give the edge to either but the Texans scored about 120 more points last year than the Bills. Both teams are excellent on special teams. I voted Bills and my next vote would go to the Texans. As much as I wanted to vote for the Titans out of spite I can't until we prove it on the field.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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I gotta disagree with your assessment of the Bills vs. Texans offense. I think Schaub or even Rosenfels if anything happens to Schaub will put up significantly better numbers than Edwards next year. Schaub had over 10% on his completion percentage compared to Edwards as well as 1.7 more yards per attempt. I understand Edwards was a rook but I think Schaub is going to improve quite a bit in his second year as a starter as well.

As far as the wide receiver corps go unless Hardy really makes a big time impact as a rookie I don't see how the Bills are any better than the Texans here. Andre is better than Evans, Kevin Walter quietly caught 65 balls last year as a second option in his first year as a starter and Andre Davis was a great third option. Jacoby Jones should get better and I don't see Josh Reed, Roscoe Parrish and the other Bills receivers doing any better than their Texan counterparts.

Lynch is definitely better than anyone the Texans have at RB but I think the Texans are going to run the ball a lot better than they did last year because of Alex Gibbs and the fact that there will be some speed at the position. Pretty much the top three or four options for the Texans are RB are better than Ron Dayne so even after the inevitable injuries there should be improvement.

The defenses are wild cards for both teams and I'm not really going to give the edge to either but the Texans scored about 120 more points last year than the Bills. Both teams are excellent on special teams. I voted Bills and my next vote would go to the Texans. As much as I wanted to vote for the Titans out of spite I can't until we prove it on the field.
As I've said before Hardy doesn't even need to play all that well to have a huge impact on the spacing other receivers get, simply the threat of somebody coming down with a jumpball is going to change things for the other guys.

While I agree Schaub is a better QB right now than Edwards, you are ignoring the huge impact that buffalo's far superior oline and running game are going to have on the kid. Last season Edwards showed poise, quick decision-making, a quick release and good pocket presence, so I don't expect him to lose many games and that'll be his primary job this season. Schaub is going to have to be the center piece of that offense if they plan on making noise this season.

Texans are good on special teams, but the bills are the best in the NFL.

As you've said the defenses are a toss up, but the bills had a ridiculous amount of injuries last year and kept on finding guys who'd step in and produce, so I like their depth more.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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As I've said before Hardy doesn't even need to play all that well to have a huge impact on the spacing other receivers get, simply the threat of somebody coming down with a jumpball is going to change things for the other guys.

While I agree Schaub is a better QB right now than Edwards, you are ignoring the huge impact that buffalo's far superior oline and running game are going to have on the kid. Last season Edwards showed poise, quick decision-making, a quick release and good pocket presence, so I don't expect him to lose many games and that'll be his primary job this season. Schaub is going to have to be the center piece of that offense if they plan on making noise this season.

Texans are good on special teams, but the bills are the best in the NFL.

As you've said the defenses are a toss up, but the bills had a ridiculous amount of injuries last year and kept on finding guys who'd step in and produce, so I like their depth more.
Even with Peters Buffalo does not have a "far superior" o-line. Buffalo rushed for 1800 yards at 4.0 per pop. They scored 8 TDs on the ground and gave up 26 sacks. Houston rushed for 1586 yards at 3.8 yards per rush. They scored 12 TDs on the ground and gave up 22 sacks. Buffalo had Marshawn Lynch and Houston had Ron Dayne. Bottom line is still Houston scored about 380 points last year opposed to Buffalo's 252. With the addition of Gibbs and a couple new starters on the O-line I expect the Texans offense to be significantly better than the Bills this season.
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Old 08-07-2008, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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As I've said before Hardy doesn't even need to play all that well to have a huge impact on the spacing other receivers get, simply the threat of somebody coming down with a jumpball is going to change things for the other guys.

While I agree Schaub is a better QB right now than Edwards, you are ignoring the huge impact that buffalo's far superior oline and running game are going to have on the kid. Last season Edwards showed poise, quick decision-making, a quick release and good pocket presence, so I don't expect him to lose many games and that'll be his primary job this season. Schaub is going to have to be the center piece of that offense if they plan on making noise this season.

Texans are good on special teams, but the bills are the best in the NFL.

As you've said the defenses are a toss up, but the bills had a ridiculous amount of injuries last year and kept on finding guys who'd step in and produce, so I like their depth more.
true that all.

And to the guy before you, lets think about this, Schaub and Edwards both only started a portion of the games last season due to injuries. Schaub has more years of experience but most of that was riding the bench, and I like the Bills supporting cast more. They each have #1's in Andre and Evans, but then I'll take Parrish and Hardy over any other Texans receiver. As previously stated, all Hardy has to do to have a successful rookie campaign is bring down some jump balls in the end zone.

And I really think that Lynch + Bills o-line >>> Any Texans runner + Texans o-line. The closeness of all the other positions on the teams means that still puts the Bills over the top IMO
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