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Old 08-06-2008, 11:51 AM    (permalink
bantx
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Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
special teams can be the difference between a good team and a great team; there are very few players in the league like Hester, if any, and while Cromartie is a very talented corner there are others at his position who remain supreme above or are not far behind
yes hester is one of the few good at his spots but a decent kick returner can do the job also, but like addict said a id rather fill a DB spot than a kicker returner even if the kick returner is devin hester, dont forget cromartie has kick return ability with speed as fast as hester.
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Cribbs? Cromartie, oh irony, can return kicks as well...

Pacman's back in the league he can run one back,

Not to mention two of those guys (Cro and Pacman) are actually pretty damn good DB's too.
Cromartie and Pacman are not on the same level returner wise as Hester or Cribbs; look at how big the improvements in special teams was for cleveland
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Cromartie.
And here is why,
Hester, by no means a lacking player, scores touchdowns (+). Cromartie stops touchdows (--) and gives the ball back to the offense who scores touchdowns (+). I'd be willing to say that what Cromartie stops is at least equal to what Hester adds. IE Cromartie (Pass defelctions, Ints, Tackles) > Hester (TD's via KR, PR or Reception) Not an exact or flawless formula, but a good place to start if you want to analize this statisticly.
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Cromartie and Pacman are not on the same level returner wise as Hester or Cribbs; look at how big the improvements in special teams was for cleveland
the thing is hester is one dimensional, hes nothing more than a kick returner.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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Cromartie and Pacman are not on the same level returner wise as Hester or Cribbs; look at how big the improvements in special teams was for cleveland
I'm not saying they're the same level.

See, my point is Hester and Cribbs both return kicks, and have so far done little else, sure they're both phenomenal at running back whatever's kicked their way, but Pacman and Cromartie aren't bad in that departement themselves. On the other hand there's Cribbs who is essentially one-dimensional and Hester who was no good at CB and is now playing WR.

If (if) Hester becomes a good WR, I may change my mind, but for now he's a great kick returner with decent extra value, while Cromartie is a great CB (maybe not top 5 great, but still great to have) and a good kick returner.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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It's a tough choice but I would have to go with Cromartie. Cromartie is a really good corner and those are pretty hard to find now days. He can also cause turnovers for your defense and is a threat to score when ever the ball is in his hands.

If Hester were father along in his development as a WR I would rather have him because he changes the dynamic of a game because of his return ability on special teams.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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i doubt hester becomes a good receiver playing with the bears
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Hester is the better returnman. The most dynamic in the game.

Cromartie is a good returner, and a good cornerback. I'd take Cromartie for my team.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Cromartie + Clements would be the best CB combination in the NFC West.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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i doubt hester becomes a good receiver playing with the bears
It can happen though, he has shown some flashes of how good he can be. Derrick Mason went from good returner to being a very productive WR, so it can happen, he just needs some time to be developed.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Cromartie on the Cardinals.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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In the last two years, Hester has scored 11 TDs on Punt and Kickoff Returns (without the Superbowl One), 1 Missed Returned Field goal and 2 Receiving TDs.

That makes 14-15 Tds. Guys like Roy Williams (WR) scored 12. Its by no mean a know on Roy Williams who has a lot of TDs take away by scrubs like Shaun McDonald. But he has a great scoring potential and he def gives the Bears great scoring position. If the bears werent ******* losers on offense, they wouldve gotten more points out of it. But really a couple of times he got them into opponent territory and the bears could only settle for a FG
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Cromartie easily. You take the already talented, but still developing DB with all the attributes you want in a corner. Having a guy who can cover top WRs, and make huge plays for your team, is more valuable than a guy who at this point only touches the ball a few times a game. Sure he's amazing when he touches the ball, but he can be eliminated. Kick the ball out of bounds and he's done. Up until this point, he has been a bust at corner and receiver (see college, and don't think he wouldn't be playing them if he would be an asset there thus far in his NFL career).

Cromartie all day every day, at least until we see if Hester can be an above average receiver and still maintain his ST abilities.
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You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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In the last two years, Hester has scored 11 TDs on Punt and Kickoff Returns (without the Superbowl One), 1 Missed Returned Field goal and 2 Receiving TDs.

That makes 14-15 Tds. Guys like Roy Williams (WR) scored 12. Its by no mean a knock on Roy Williams who has a lot of TDs take away by scrubs like Shaun McDonald. But he has a great scoring potential and he def gives the Bears great scoring position. If the bears werent ******* losers on offense, they wouldve gotten more points out of it. But really a couple of times he got them into opponent territory and the bears could only settle for a FG
and he played only 12 games last year, and in a spread offense, with a bum O-line that gave Kitna zero time to throw.

the point isn't that Hester has great return skills, he does. But as of now, he hasn't got anything else than that. It's just return skill. Cromartie offers more.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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I love how this guy's feeble attempt to get a player (Hester) from his team more respect backfired miserably.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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i dont want Hester to get more respect. This is a Football forum isnt it? Hester gets enough respect, which is shown by his stats. Guys like Galloway dont get enough respect. We had a discussion on IRC with Bantx so i figured id just put it on here...
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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I love how this guy's feeble attempt to get a player (Hester) from his team more respect backfired miserably.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Cromartie easily. You take the already talented, but still developing DB with all the attributes you want in a corner. Having a guy who can cover top WRs, and make huge plays for your team, is more valuable than a guy who at this point only touches the ball a few times a game. Sure he's amazing when he touches the ball, but he can be eliminated. Kick the ball out of bounds and he's done. Up until this point, he has been a bust at corner and receiver (see college, and don't think he wouldn't be playing them if he would be an asset there thus far in his NFL career).

Cromartie all day every day, at least until we see if Hester can be an above average receiver and still maintain his ST abilities.
If their kicking the ball out of bounds on a punt then it's still giving you for the most part because it's not the easiest thing to kick the ball out of bounds accurately. If there doing pouch kick on the kickoff then at worst case the bears are starting at their 30-35 yard line and Hester didn't even have to touch the ball. His presence alone makes the team better.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Cromartie. Defense effects the game more than special teams. It will take Hester years to become a big time WR, if he ever does.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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If their kicking the ball out of bounds on a punt then it's still giving you for the most part because it's not the easiest thing to kick the ball out of bounds accurately. If there doing pouch kick on the kickoff then at worst case the bears are starting at their 30-35 yard line and Hester didn't even have to touch the ball. His presence alone makes the team better.
yeah even that wont help the bears offense
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Cromartie easily, playmaker as well as a good corner back where HEster is only a special teams player.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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For an expansion team? Probably Cromartie, need him to start at corner immediately.

For the Colts? Hester.

Who I would rather have? Hester. He's the best return man of all-time, he's going to break more league history in only three years ... that is if teams still kick to him. And I'd try to integrate him into the offense.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bantx View Post
yeah even that wont help the bears offense
How is better field position not helping out the offense? That is a huge help to the offense because it shortens the field for them. Your also just assuming that he's going to be a terrible WR. We wont really know how thats going to work out until this season is over.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:45 PM    (permalink
bantx
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Originally Posted by ChezPower4 View Post
How is better field position not helping out the offense? That is a huge help to the offense because it shortens the field for them. Your also just assuming that he's going to be a terrible WR. We wont really know how thats going to work out until this season is over.
have u seen the bears offense play?
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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Antonio Cromartie for sure and its not even close. Devin Hester is a sensational returnman the greatest returnman of all time already, but you can easily kick away from that and not lose too much. Cromartie is going to be on the field during more important downs. If you chose to throw away from him you are becoming easier to read for the defense because you automatically give up half the field ever play. Devin Hester also give you no versitility what so ever. He great at one thing and on thing only. He can't over power anyone, he can't block anyone, he can't tackle anyone, he wont bust any wedges for your team. He is the most one dimensional player "Great" to ever play the game(at least to this point in his career).
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