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Old 08-07-2008, 04:25 PM    (permalink
thule
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
1. New England
Reason: Duh.

2. San Diego
Reason: I think Philip Rivers and Vincent Jackson showed us what they could do in the near future, plus LaDainian Tomlinson still has a few years of elite play left.

3. Indianapolis
Reason: As long as they have Peyton Manning they will be an elite team.

4. New York (N)
Reason: The defense looks like it will still be very good. I like the fact that players like Steve Smith and Kevin Boss will only grow into the offense and provided secondary options in the passing game.

5. Jacksonville
Reason: One of these years the Jaguars will surpass the Colts, but since I have unsuccessfully predicted it up to this point I will go the opposite way and maybe that will change things.

And I do not have either the Packers or Cowboys making the playoffs this year, let alone elite teams, which sets me apart I guess.
Shiver I respect what you say...but have you been out of the game too long?

Obviously as a Cowboys fan I have some bias to my team...but not making the playoffs is a foolish statement...and I'm going to come knocking on your door come playoff time with a big old plate of crow.

The cowboys ended the season with quite a few decisions.

Free Agents
Patrick Crayton - Resigned
Julius Jones - Seattle
Ken Hamlin - Resigned
Flozell Adams - Resigned
Jacques Reeves - Houston
Marion Barber - Resigned
Chris Canty - 1 year Tender
Jay Ratliff - Resigned

Additions
Zach Thomas
Adam Jones
Felix Jones
Mike Jenkins
Martellus Bennett
Tashard Choice
Orlando Scandrick

Departures
Akin Ayodele
Anthony Fasano

Now are you going to try to tell me that a team that went 13-3...and resigned 6 out of 8 free agents...drafted to strengthen weak area's...and brought in two Free Agents with Pro Bowl experience is going to not even make the playoffs!

I'm sorry but unless Romo gets hurt you can book a playoff experience for the cowboys...and it doesn't make a lot of sense to base ur prediction on a starting QB going down...since almost any top team that lost their signal caller would be in trouble.

Just to add to the numbers here.
Felix Jones and Tashard Choice = Julius Jones
Zach Thomas > Akin Ayodele
Adam Jones and Mike Jenkins > Reeves
Tony Curtis and Martellus Bennett = Anthony Fasano

So when your looking at a team...I think to predict a decline in play or record...it would atleast have to be backed up by facts.

Fact is Tony Romo has only started 26 games
Fact is Marion Barber is now a starter
Fact is Roy Williams is no longer on the field in Nickel/Dime situations
Fact is Jason Garrett and Brian Stewart are in their second years in the same system

I can't see one reason to predict a decline other than just trying to be "that guy"
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Old 08-07-2008, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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1. Cowboys / Chargers

3. Saints
4. Patriots
5.Colts


I'd love to put the Saints at #2 and bring the Chargers down, however, for as big a Saints fan as I am, they have yet to prove themselves. So far, in all honesty, it's just a great team on paper.
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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You could say the same about SD, considering our "strength of schedule" doesn't really mean anything within our own division when NY, Philly, and Wash play most of the same teams as us. Plus GB is weak. Rodgers sucks. Anyone who thinks otherwise is about to get a wake up call when Check down boy gets figured out after 2 games.

Edit: We've improved or stayed the same in every aspect of the team. We lost no one of concern and added a bunch of key players. I see no way we miss the playoffs. Last years team plus Zach Thomas, Mike Jenkins, Felix Jones, Pacman Jones, and all of the young players expected to get significant time this year, Plus team not getting full of their own **** like they did last year = Major upgrade.
Easy bucko, I didn't say I agreed with him. Although I don't think you could say the same about SD, they don't have anywhere near the inter-divisional competition Dallas does.

As it stands right now, Dallas is a team that got upended by a wildcard from their own division in their first playoff game. They haven't won a playoff game in over a decade. That alone might be enough for a DQ from "elite" status. I still think they'll be in the tournament though.
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Easy bucko, I didn't say I agreed with him. Although I don't think you could say the same about SD, they don't have anywhere near the inter-divisional competition Dallas does.

As it stands right now, Dallas is a team that got upended by a wildcard from their own division in their first playoff game. They haven't won a playoff game in over a decade. That alone might be enough for a DQ from "elite" status. I still think they'll be in the tournament though.
What does having won a playoff game in the past decade have to do with anything? I mean seriously. To that same token, you have never won a Super bowl ever. Does this hold some relevance when evaluating the upcoming charger season? No, not at all.

So please drop the trash argument.

and we got upended by the Giants, but they somehow managed to beat the team that upended you, so what is your point?

New season. Better team. Playoffs are a lock.
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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1. NE Patriots
2. NY Giants
3. DAL Cowboys
4. GB Packers
5a. CLE Browns
5b. NY Jets
5c. PIT Steelers



SAN Chargers - Look like Tarazan, play like Jane.
Again did u actually watch any chargers game? or are u just like basically just assuming like everyone else has been, yeah they played their way to the AFC Championship game playing like jane
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Why do people make these threads? I mean they always become homer battles
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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1. Patriots
2. Colts
3. Giants
4. Chargers
5. Jaguars
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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1. Cowboys / Chargers

3. Saints
4. Patriots
5.Colts


I'd love to put the Saints at #2 and bring the Chargers down, however, for as big a Saints fan as I am, they have yet to prove themselves. So far, in all honesty, it's just a great team on paper.
Yet you criticized someone for not having the Saints at #32 in their mock draft.
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry, but Cleveland belongs no where near the top five. It's okay to try to be cool and different, and stand out with your opinions, but Cleveland is no where near being a top five team.

The Packers are no longer in the discussion, seeing as they will go 16 games this year without a proven quarterback. If Grant proves he wasn't a fluke, then they might win 10 games, but that hardly gets you into the top five.

The team that a lot of people are forgetting, to throw in the Clevelands of the world are the Jaguars. Their running game is one of the best, their offensive line is very good, quarterback play is solid, and WR's are decent enough to get them by. Everyone knows they have a tough defense. Their added pass rush should improve them even more, and in my opinion, they're easily a top five team. Especially when teams like the Browns are being mentioned..
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Old 08-07-2008, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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1. New England
2. San Diego
3. Dallas
4. Indianapolis
5. Packers OR Steelers
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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What does having won a playoff game in the past decade have to do with anything? I mean seriously. To that same token, you have never won a Super bowl ever. Does this hold some relevance when evaluating the upcoming charger season? No, not at all.

So please drop the trash argument.

and we got upended by the Giants, but they somehow managed to beat the team that upended you, so what is your point?

New season. Better team. Playoffs are a lock.
God I'm so sick of super-sensitive people on the internet. Maybe I'm being hypocritical, but seriously lighten up and grow up. I even said I thought the Cowboys would make the playoffs.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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Again did u actually watch any chargers game? or are u just like basically just assuming like everyone else has been, yeah they played their way to the AFC Championship game playing like jane
The AFC West was the weakest division in football. Not like they had to climb a mountain to get there.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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I'll go with-

1. New England
2. San Diego
3. Indy
4. Dallas
5. Green Bay
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Indy, NE, Jacksonville, NYG and Dallas, even though I think Wade Phillips will prevent the cowboys from winning a playoff game, again.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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The AFC West was the weakest division in football. Not like they had to climb a mountain to get there.
What does the division have to do with winning two playoff games and coming close against a 17-0 team, minus your best players?
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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wow not many people believing in the Giants. i know we lost strahan and Shock, but I don't think those guys will be missed as badly as I guess you guys do. We really mis-used shockey last year so unless Boss can't block at all I don't see much less productivity from teh TE spot. Plus our running game will be better with Bradshaw being a big part from day one, same for the passing game with Smith. Oline has more depth this season, eli really took hold and stopped forcing things last season and our D should be even better. We actually have a safety who can cover now, not to mention much better corners to start the season.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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no one is doubting the giants theyre just not elite
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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I'm sorry, but Cleveland belongs no where near the top five. It's okay to try to be cool and different, and stand out with your opinions, but Cleveland is no where near being a top five team.

The Packers are no longer in the discussion, seeing as they will go 16 games this year without a proven quarterback. If Grant proves he wasn't a fluke, then they might win 10 games, but that hardly gets you into the top five.

The team that a lot of people are forgetting, to throw in the Clevelands of the world are the Jaguars. Their running game is one of the best, their offensive line is very good, quarterback play is solid, and WR's are decent enough to get them by. Everyone knows they have a tough defense. Their added pass rush should improve them even more, and in my opinion, they're easily a top five team. Especially when teams like the Browns are being mentioned..

What's so awful about the Brown's being mentioned? There's a few big if's at QB and on defense, but we definitely have the talent to be an elite team this year. Just because the Browns have been terrible ever since we came back into the league up until last year, you don't think they deserve to be mentioned with the other big dogs of the AFC? Our defense is going to surprise a lot of people if we can get at least OK play from our line, because last year it sucked because of the line. I for one think Rogers and Williams are going to help not just the line, but our whole defense immensely.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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What's so awful about the Brown's being mentioned? There's a few big if's at QB and on defense, but we definitely have the talent to be an elite team this year. Just because the Browns have been terrible ever since we came back into the league up until last year, you don't think they deserve to be mentioned with the other big dogs of the AFC? Our defense is going to surprise a lot of people if we can get at least OK play from our line, because last year it sucked because of the line. I for one think Rogers and Williams are going to help not just the line, but our whole defense immensely.
"There's a few big if's at QB.."

A top five team hardly has "big if's", much less at the quarterback position.

The defensive line should be improved, but you still need DB's, and didn't you just trade your most decent CB this off-season? Sean Jones is very solid at one safety spot, but who's gonna play the other one? Brodney Pool? I don't like their defense one bit, and every other team being mentioned in the top five is good to very good in almost every facet of their team.

The only team in the top five with a glaring weakness somewhere is the Patriots and their secondary, but their offense and pass rush should be enough to get them by again, into the conference title game.
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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The AFC West was the weakest division in football. Not like they had to climb a mountain to get there.
yeah the playoffs isnt the afc west and we played like jane when made payton manning look like a rookie
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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1. New England Patriots
2. San Diego Chargers
3. Dallas Cowboys
4. Pittsburgh Steelers
5. Jacksonville Jaguars

I really don't feel comfortable putting Jacksonville at five, but I don't feel right putting anyone else there either...that's my elite four!
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Old 08-07-2008, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bantx View Post
yeah the playoffs isnt the afc west and we played like jane when made payton manning look like a rookie

You guys have had all the hype for about 5 offseasons now, and you haven't made a Super Bowl yet. I'll believe it when I see it.
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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You guys have had all the hype for about 5 offseasons now, and you haven't made a Super Bowl yet. I'll believe it when I see it.
so ur not saying the chargers arent an elite team until they make the superbowl?
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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"There's a few big if's at QB.."

A top five team hardly has "big if's", much less at the quarterback position.

The defensive line should be improved, but you still need DB's, and didn't you just trade your most decent CB this off-season? Sean Jones is very solid at one safety spot, but who's gonna play the other one? Brodney Pool? I don't like their defense one bit, and every other team being mentioned in the top five is good to very good in almost every facet of their team.

The only team in the top five with a glaring weakness somewhere is the Patriots and their secondary, but their offense and pass rush should be enough to get them by again, into the conference title game.
Bodden would be good but he's always injured, and was last year as well. Our starting DB tandem should be pretty good, depth is lacking but our CB's definitely aren't going to be the problem on D for us barring injury. As you said, Jones is a beast, and Pool is decent and improving each year. I don't see how you can't like our D "one bit" with the additions this offseason as well as guys like Sean Jones, Eric Wright, and Kamerion Wimbley on it.

I shouldn't call QB a big if, but the play of DA will decide if we are an elite team or not IMO. And with the rest of the offense around him it will be hard for him to suck too badly. This is only his second year as a starter so he's sure to be improving. And look what he did last year. I'd probably have the Browns at 6 or 7 right now but the top 5 is right there.
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Old 08-07-2008, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Bodden would be good but he's always injured, and was last year as well. Our starting DB tandem should be pretty good, depth is lacking but our CB's definitely aren't going to be the problem on D for us barring injury. As you said, Jones is a beast, and Pool is decent and improving each year. I don't see how you can't like our D "one bit" with the additions this offseason as well as guys like Sean Jones, Eric Wright, and Kamerion Wimbley on it.

I shouldn't call QB a big if, but the play of DA will decide if we are an elite team or not IMO. And with the rest of the offense around him it will be hard for him to suck too badly. This is only his second year as a starter so he's sure to be improving. And look what he did last year. I'd probably have the Browns at 6 or 7 right now but the top 5 is right there.
I kind of thought Elite team sort of meant a lock to go the play offs for the next 3-4 years :(.

Regardless, the browns aren't even a lock to go the play offs this year. I'm not going to argue about the Bengals because it will just be considered homerism, and I'll leave the Ravens out because they have more questions than answers despite being a very powerful team.

However, the AFC North's schedule is incredibly tough, most people predict a team winning it with 10 wins at most, someome people even feel it might come down to 9 wins. With that in mind, how can you think the browns are lock over the steelers? They have a better D, and a reliable offense.

To be elite, I think you need to do more than post a winning record - like make the play offs.
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