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Old 08-09-2008, 03:17 AM    (permalink
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Alex Smith should go back to all the playbooks he's had in his time, photocopy the stuff he's got down, the stuff he liked and mesh it into ONE book, give it to Nolan and say "make it happen"
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Old 08-09-2008, 08:51 AM    (permalink
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That actually sounds like a good idea
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Old 08-09-2008, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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He has the ability to be as good as the elite TEs but he still has to put it all together. With the QB troubles in San Fran I'm gonna say not gonna happen.
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Old 08-09-2008, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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He started 14 games last year on the worst offense any of us have seen in a long time.

He got 52 catches with 509 yards, his second year in the NFL. I think that puts him at about 12th for NFL tightends? Not bad for the QB's, for gods sake he had Trent Dilfer most of the year.

I think he can easily be a top 5 tightend this year and should be ranked up there. Will he have a career like Tony has had? Time will tell, but there is nothing wrong with being sure of yourself.

You guys are just haters.
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Old 08-09-2008, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I agree, it will be very interesting to see how Martz utilizers Davis since his offense doesn't use a TE a whole lot.
Davis is athletic enough to play receiver if he needs to....maybe a change of role (Dallas Clark-style) will make him more comfortable. I have little doubt that Martz will get Davis very much involved in the offense (especially with SF's crap Wreceivers), but I do agree that it will be interesting to see just how.
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Old 08-10-2008, 07:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Chief49er View Post
He started 14 games last year on the worst offense any of us have seen in a long time.

He got 52 catches with 509 yards, his second year in the NFL. I think that puts him at about 12th for NFL tightends? Not bad for the QB's, for gods sake he had Trent Dilfer most of the year.

I think he can easily be a top 5 tightend this year and should be ranked up there. Will he have a career like Tony has had? Time will tell, but there is nothing wrong with being sure of yourself.

You guys are just haters.
Look at Gonzo though with freakin Huard and Croyle
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Chief49er View Post
He started 14 games last year on the worst offense any of us have seen in a long time.

He got 52 catches with 509 yards, his second year in the NFL. I think that puts him at about 12th for NFL tightends? Not bad for the QB's, for gods sake he had Trent Dilfer most of the year.

I think he can easily be a top 5 tightend this year and should be ranked up there. Will he have a career like Tony has had? Time will tell, but there is nothing wrong with being sure of yourself.

You guys are just haters.
we never said he'll never be any good, never contested his physical ability. But Davis is running his mouth without any reason or any stats to back up his claims. Shut up or put up, but don't open your mouth before you do anything remarkable.

Winslow did it, we told him off. Now that he's shown he's the real deal, he can make the claims without getting called out for it.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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I was never the biggest Vernon Davis fan. I felt that his measurables were grossly exaggerated, and the "mismatches" he would create weren't as great as ppl thought. case in point, a TE has to be faster than a LB, bigger than a safety. VD is faster than an LB, but not big enough to gain a significant advantage on the safety. That was my biggest knock on him.


Not to mention he's dumb as an ox. Having that said, he doesn't suck, and still should become a very good TE. Just not a top 3 guy like everyone was making him out to be before he even stepped on the field.


Also, VD can thrive in Martz's system. Martz is gonna use him as a WR basically, it shouldn't be a problem. My issue is, how is Martz gonna run this spread offense with poo in the trenches?
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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As much talent as Davis possesses it doesn't amount to anything on the field without any adequate QB play which will continue to delay him from elite status in '08 imo. This is as good a system to extract all of his Davis' abilities so we must wait and see how the young, developing OL holds up to get a better sense of whether Martz's plan really fits the strenghts of this offense going forward.
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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I don't see how VD's situation is any different from Tony Gonzalez's. Both have no oline and no qb. and both had piss poor play calling.

Tony catches 99 passes for 1172. Double that of VD.


Its one thing if they had similar numbers, but Tony doubled him. VD has a lot more to prove as a player before he's in any convo regarding elite TEs.
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Old 08-10-2008, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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I don't see how VD's situation is any different from Tony Gonzalez's. Both have no oline and no qb. and both had piss poor play calling.

Tony catches 99 passes for 1172. Double that of VD.


Its one thing if they had similar numbers, but Tony doubled him. VD has a lot more to prove as a player before he's in any convo regarding elite TEs.
It was only Davis' second year, though. Tony G. is a seasoned veteran on top of being a great, athletically gifted tight end
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Old 08-10-2008, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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tony gonzalez was also the top receivers for the chiefs. vd could have been for the niners but jim hostler was too stupid to know that
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Old 08-10-2008, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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I don't see how VD's situation is any different from Tony Gonzalez's. Both have no oline and no qb. and both had piss poor play calling.

Tony catches 99 passes for 1172. Double that of VD.


Its one thing if they had similar numbers, but Tony doubled him. VD has a lot more to prove as a player before he's in any convo regarding elite TEs.
Because of SF's piss-poor offensive line and due to the fact that Davis is an elite blocker, he is often called upon to stay in and block, infinitely moreso than Gonzalez.
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Old 08-10-2008, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Because of SF's piss-poor offensive line and due to the fact that Davis is an elite blocker, he is often called upon to stay in and block, infinitely moreso than Gonzalez.
KC's line was garbage too. And Gonzo is a good blocker as well. The reason that Davis didn't put up the same production as Tony is simple, he isn't nearly as good as him. To star with, Davis isn't close to Gonzalez in route running ability . The only thing he has on him is speed, but Gonzo is also longer, something quite important for a TE. But you can't really compare the two players, Tony Gonzalez is one of the greatest TEs ever to play the game. Vernon Davis is just a raw young player with some potential. If anyone was expecting Vernon Davis to come out and produce at the level of a HOF TE, well then they need to lower their expectations.

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Old 08-10-2008, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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KC's line was garbage too. And Gonzo is a good blocker as well. The reason that Davis didn't put up the same production as Tony is simple, he isn't nearly as good as him. To star with, Davis isn't close to Gonzalez in route running ability . The only thing he has on him is speed, but Gonzo is also longer, something quite important for a TE. But you can't really compare the two players, Tony Gonzalez is one of the greatest TEs ever to play the game. Vernon Davis is just a raw young player with some potential.
Vernon Davis is a top 3 TE blocker, Tony Gonzalez is most definitely not.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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Vernon Davis is a top 3 TE blocker, Tony Gonzalez is most definitely not.
Pass blocking from a TE is never going to be more valuable than an elite TE receiver. If Vernon is more valuable as a pass blocker than as a receiver, that just shows how much he still has to develop.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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it appears as though this discussion has turned into a Gonzo vs Davis debate. Laughable, i must say, given the past, and current production of both. Not sure what the debate could possibly be for Davis, other than 'did you see his combine numbers!'
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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Vernon Davis is a top 3 TE blocker, Tony Gonzalez is most definitely not.
Desmond Clark, Jason Whitten, Algae Crumpler, Owen Daniels are all better blockers than Vernon Davis.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Kellen Winslow sucks.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Desmond Clark, Jason Whitten, Algae Crumpler, Owen Daniels are all better blockers than Vernon Davis.
vernon roughs up the defender throughout the whole play and even after. his mindset is to destroy his opponent and he is very successful at that
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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Pass blocking from a TE is never going to be more valuable than an elite TE receiver. If Vernon is more valuable as a pass blocker than as a receiver, that just shows how much he still has to develop.
this is only vernon's 3rd year. compare vernon's first 2 with tg's the numbers are remarkably similar
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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I think that coordinators are not given enough credit for adaptability. Martz will make the necessary changes to his playbook and make sure Davis is the number one target in the passing game. You do not become a renowned coordinator by being rigid.

I think the opportunity is there for Davis to be an elite TE; it comes down to how Alex Smith improves, if at all, and if he can master the offense from a mental standpoint.
Sorry but Martz has quite a reputation for being rigid. He's a system OC who has changed very little since introducing his offensive system to the NFL. He doesn't utilize TE in his offense. Now he might shift Davis outside, he certainly has the speed to play there, but he's not going to be a primary receiver in Martz's system unless Martz plays him as a WR, that's for sure.
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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Desmond Clark, Jason Whitten, Algae Crumpler, Owen Daniels are all better blockers than Vernon Davis.
Erroneous!
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Old 08-11-2008, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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Sorry but Martz has quite a reputation for being rigid. He's a system OC who has changed very little since introducing his offensive system to the NFL. He doesn't utilize TE in his offense. Now he might shift Davis outside, he certainly has the speed to play there, but he's not going to be a primary receiver in Martz's system unless Martz plays him as a WR, that's for sure.
And that's probably what he will do.

He's better to the niners like that than however they got him now.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:02 AM    (permalink
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vernon roughs up the defender throughout the whole play and even after. his mindset is to destroy his opponent and he is very successful at that
I'm sorry, but I am not sure if your are trying to pass that as off as an argument to defend Vernon's blocking, but if you are, you may need to go back to the drawing board. I have not seen enough 49er games to judge or comment on his blocking, but there is nothing concrete or substantial enough in that argument to sway my or anyone else's opinion on his blocking abilities. It just sounds like an exaggerated bias opinion.
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