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Old 08-12-2008, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
If you're looking for a running back to dominate in Carolina it will be Williams not Stewart.

Stewart has been playing well, but Williams has been better, in his third year he's a much bigger part of the team as a leader and he's faster, stronger and better than ever. He's going to be the team's work horse, Stewart will be lucky to crack 1000 yards this season.
Plus John Fox has exhibited a consistent, almost stubborn trend of giving more carries to the veteran back, right or wrong. Even with a 1st round pick in Williams on the team for the last two years.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
That's an extreme example, but anyone that knows anything about gambling knows that you're almost always betting off better on the team that has the smaller fan base. Watch how many times Notre Dame beats the spread for example.


I put down 100 bucks on Florida to win the NL East at 20/1 odds a few weeks ago. I feel pretty good about taking the Mets and Phillies homers on with those odds.
I understand gambling, I was just laughing at the idea of anyone putting money on the Rams to win it all.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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I agree with the Pitt point, I think they will be an elite team in the already stacked AFC. Last year there was just too much going on with injuries and all Roethlisberger's stuff, and I really have always thought that he was a special QB. Not many QB's scare me to play against them the way he does because of the things he can do even when you get pressure on him.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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There are a lot of Cowboys homers out there. Are you new or something?
What team doesn't have a large group of homers? That would be news to me if there was a team who didn't, but you know a large group of the respected Cowboys posters on this site and thats not the case.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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If you're looking for a running back to dominate in Carolina it will be Williams not Stewart.

Stewart has been playing well, but Williams has been better, in his third year he's a much bigger part of the team as a leader and he's faster, stronger and better than ever. He's going to be the team's work horse, Stewart will be lucky to crack 1000 yards this season.


Deangelo has been playing good, I really like the guy, but he won't be a workhorse so lets not get carried away...A Workhorse back carries the ball 30 times a game, at the least 25 and rarely comes out, since we know thats not going to be the case he isn't and shouldn't be considered a workhorse...He will get around 15-20 carries depending on the team, and some receptions, while getting spelled by Stewart, thats hardly a workhorse.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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I understand gambling, I was just laughing at the idea of anyone putting money on the Rams to win it all.
The example was extreme on purpose: to show that any team can have have the best odds to win the Superbowl - even one of the worst teams in the league. The only thing that matters when it comes to odds is how many people bet on them, which is why it's a useless argument of why the Cowboys will do good or bad. The Boys simply have more fans than anybody else.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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i don't get the whole Giants missing the playoffs thing. Didn't replace our losses? Phillips taking over for Wilson isn't much of a drop, if any at all. Yea, we lost Shockey, which has it's ups and downs, but our locker room will be alot quieter and calmer. Boss has lots of potential as well. Please don't give me the Mitchell and Torbor are key losses...

the biggest is Strahan who obviously will be missed but I highly doubt the drop off from him to Tuck will cost the Giants a playoff berth...
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
If you're looking for a running back to dominate in Carolina it will be Williams not Stewart.

Stewart has been playing well, but Williams has been better, in his third year he's a much bigger part of the team as a leader and he's faster, stronger and better than ever. He's going to be the team's work horse, Stewart will be lucky to crack 1000 yards this season.
So Stewart won't be getting the majority of the carries? Did I miss something...curious to find out more about Carolina camp...although I won't be changing any of my truths regaurdless.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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i don't get the whole Giants missing the playoffs thing. Didn't replace our losses? Phillips taking over for Wilson isn't much of a drop, if any at all. Yea, we lost Shockey, which has it's ups and downs, but our locker room will be alot quieter and calmer. Boss has lots of potential as well. Please don't give me the Mitchell and Torbor are key losses...

the biggest is Strahan who obviously will be missed but I highly doubt the drop off from him to Tuck will cost the Giants a playoff berth...
I've already addressed this earlier in a reply to number10...but I'm curious to hear...I'm hearing a lot of talk about Tuck replacing Strahan...and thats fine and all...but will he be seeing anytime inside...because his speed on the inside is really what created the mismatches...I asked 10 and I'll ask you as well...does Tuck still go inside in passing situations with Kiwi sliding down or no?

And as far as it being a small degrade...if Tuck isn't moving inside I'm thinking it's going to be a huge loss....for instance...obviously I know the cowboys better than anyone else...the cowboys ran a 3-3 variation against the Giants in the second game they played each other...which is the game eli got murdered...and had about 4 delay of game penalties...this steamed from the failure of eli to identify the mike backer...which lead to mishaps in the blitz assignments. The reason I bring this up is because in the playoffs I thought that the giants did a good job of mixing rush zones up...and was one of the big reasons that they were able to dominate OL's in the playoffs...if Tuck is staying on the outside that could really mess up that flow they were able to develop by having two excellent edge rushers...and a talent like Tuck in the middle. So I actually view Tuck replacing Strahan as a huge loss for the simple fact that in pass rush situations you lose Tuck in the middle.


And as far as missing the playoff tidbit that I threw in there it had more to do with everyone else in the division improving more than the giants...and not as much of the giants getting worse.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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I've already addressed this earlier in a reply to number10...but I'm curious to hear...I'm hearing a lot of talk about Tuck replacing Strahan...and thats fine and all...but will he be seeing anytime inside...because his speed on the inside is really what created the mismatches...I asked 10 and I'll ask you as well...does Tuck still go inside in passing situations with Kiwi sliding down or no?

And as far as it being a small degrade...if Tuck isn't moving inside I'm thinking it's going to be a huge loss....for instance...obviously I know the cowboys better than anyone else...the cowboys ran a 3-3 variation against the Giants in the second game they played each other...which is the game eli got murdered...and had about 4 delay of game penalties...this steamed from the failure of eli to identify the mike backer...which lead to mishaps in the blitz assignments. The reason I bring this up is because in the playoffs I thought that the giants did a good job of mixing rush zones up...and was one of the big reasons that they were able to dominate OL's in the playoffs...if Tuck is staying on the outside that could really mess up that flow they were able to develop by having two excellent edge rushers...and a talent like Tuck in the middle. So I actually view Tuck replacing Strahan as a huge loss for the simple fact that in pass rush situations you lose Tuck in the middle.
on the pss rush situations, normally one or MAYBE 2 LB'ers would be on the field. Kiwi would slide down to the end with Tuck in the middle and Alford/Robbins next to him and of course Osi. Its obviously not the same without Strahan, but its still pretty good.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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on the pss rush situations, normally one or MAYBE 2 LB'ers would be on the field. Kiwi would slide down to the end with Tuck in the middle and Alford/Robbins next to him and of course Osi. Its obviously not the same without Strahan, but its still pretty good.
Was Kiwi on the field in those situations last year...because I seem to remember he was...which in effect was where the 4 DE's on the field came from right?

And like I said...I just feel that the other teams in the division upgraded more from 2007-2008 than the Giants...not so much that they didn't address needs.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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Was Kiwi on the field in those situations last year...because I seem to remember he was...which in effect was where the 4 DE's on the field came from right?

And like I said...I just feel that the other teams in the division upgraded more from 2007-2008 than the Giants...not so much that they didn't address needs.
Yep, Kiwi would be in there at times with Osi, Tuck and Strahan. But weused it more towards the end of theyear when Kiwi was out. You have your opinions, and we'll see come the season! :D
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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The Browns are up and coming...but that defense still isn't going to keep them in ballgames against the elite teams.
While our defense isn't going to be amazing, its going to be alot better, I would guess somewhere in the teens as ranking wise...

Our defense won't win us games, but our offense and special teams will, should be fun to watch the Browns/Steelers duke it out this year (finally).
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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While our defense isn't going to be amazing, its going to be alot better, I would guess somewhere in the teens as ranking wise...

Our defense won't win us games, but our offense and special teams will, should be fun to watch the Browns/Steelers duke it out this year (finally).
You guys got a NT...who has a knock for not playing hard all the time...thats a pretty big problem in the 3-4 two gap where you need to be taken up 2 people at all times...you guys lost your best secondary player Bodden and didn't replace him....I don't really see where you guys got better...fill me in.
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Deangelo has been playing good, I really like the guy, but he won't be a workhorse so lets not get carried away...A Workhorse back carries the ball 30 times a game, at the least 25 and rarely comes out, since we know thats not going to be the case he isn't and shouldn't be considered a workhorse...He will get around 15-20 carries depending on the team, and some receptions, while getting spelled by Stewart, thats hardly a workhorse.
No running back in history has gotten 30 carries per game and very few (like...5 ever) have averaged 25 a game. So long as Delhomme's arm is really better and Steve Smith can keep from KO'ing teammates, Carolina can't afford to be completely run-centric. All sign indicate that DeAngelo Williams is going to get a great majority of the carries this year, even if all that amounts to in 20 carries per game (320 total carries, more than Tomlinson had last year).
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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No running back in history has gotten 30 carries per game and very few (like...5 ever) have averaged 25 a game. So long as Delhomme's arm is really better and Steve Smith can keep from KO'ing teammates, Carolina can't afford to be completely run-centric. All sign indicate that DeAngelo Williams is going to get a great majority of the carries this year, even if all that amounts to in 20 carries per game (320 total carries, more than Tomlinson had last year).
Do you consider a "workhorse" back one who shares carries in a committee? LJ for a few seasons, LT his entire career, Jamal Lewis, Steven Jackson, Brian Westbrook, to me when you have a workhorse back you rarely see another back on the field, I expect Deangelo to be a key player in a committee, if they were looking for him to be a workhorse I can think of alot better things to spend a top 15 pick on then a big, strong, fast RB who some consider to be ideal to be a workhorse.


I'm not going to get worked up over TC and one pre-season game, Deshaun Foster was always in Stephen Davis' shadow, same with Deangelo when he came along with Foster, what reason would he have to just use one RB all of a sudden...Deangelo getting 20 carries and Stewart getting 5 makes no sense to me, and I highly doubt that comes close to happening...At best I see a time-share in Deangelo's favor, but he's not going to be a workhorse back.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:05 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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great thread Thule. i have some disagreements, but hey, thats why we make these threads right? :)

i love your point on the Steelers. i think they could very well go to the SB this year. theyre a very good team. and their oline woes are exaggerated. honestly, from my evaluation of them, it was moreso Ben holding onto the ball too long which resulted in sacks.

regardless though, Ben has grown exponentially, and now with more targets, i think he'll get that ball out even quicker and do even better. with 2 very good backs id prefer them to go back to a more smashmouth brand of football, but Ben is very capable of running a spread offense as well.

And Anthony Smith is so underrated.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Oh and btw guys, if you want to know anything about the Phillips 46, Thule is our resident expert in that scheme. He knows it better than anyone.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
great thread Thule. i have some disagreements, but hey, thats why we make these threads right? :)

i love your point on the Steelers. i think they could very well go to the SB this year. theyre a very good team. and their oline woes are exaggerated. honestly, from my evaluation of them, it was moreso Ben holding onto the ball too long which resulted in sacks.

regardless though, Ben has grown exponentially, and now with more targets, i think he'll get that ball out even quicker and do even better. with 2 very good backs id prefer them to go back to a more smashmouth brand of football, but Ben is very capable of running a spread offense as well.

And Anthony Smith is so underrated.
The reason I doubt the Steelers has mostly to do with that schedule. It's brutal beyond anything I've ever seen before. They've got the Jaguars, Giants, Colts, Chargers, Patriots and Cowboys, and that’s before they even play a division game.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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The reason I doubt the Steelers has mostly to do with that schedule. It's brutal beyond anything I've ever seen before. They've got the Jaguars, Giants, Colts, Chargers, Patriots and Cowboys, and thatís before they even play a division game.
damn...didn't think of it that way, that is a brutal schedule.


i love Jags/Steelers games. if youre a true fan of smashmouth football, you love Jaguar/Steeler games. to me those games are cream of the crop, i love watching those 2 teams go at it.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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Phillips taking over for Wilson isn't much of a drop, if any at all. Yea, we lost Shockey, which has it's ups and downs, but our locker room will be alot quieter and calmer. Boss has lots of potential as well.
Preaching to the choir my man!

Rogers taking over for Favre isn't much of a drop, if any at all. Afterall, Rodgers is a Packer, he's automatically good dawg.

Since the Eagles lost TO they have been better because their locker room was more calm. Deshawn Jackson has lots of potential as well.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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nice work thule!

you'll have to compete with mine tomorrow though :)
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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Preaching to the choir my man!

Rogers taking over for Favre isn't much of a drop, if any at all. Afterall, Rodgers is a Packer, he's automatically good dawg.

Since the Eagles lost TO they have been better because their locker room was more calm. Deshawn Jackson has lots of potential as well.



and on the 5th day Jordy Nelson sayeth:

Hath thee forgetten, that God still playeth in Green Bay?

and peace was restored.
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Old 08-12-2008, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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and on the 5th day Jordy Nelson sayeth:

Hath thee forgetten, that God still playeth in Green Bay?

and peace was restored.
Jordy play football before sea creatures and Birds were created?

.....Damn, he good.
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