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Old 08-13-2008, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Kiwanuka played his last game in Week 11 at Detroit.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Which was before we started playing good football.

Most of the season we played down to our opponents and succeeded because we had an easy schedule. That's been one of our biggest problems, we play to the level of our opponents, up and down.
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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FYI In Michael Strahan's book, he states that Kiwanuka is the best young pass rusher he has ever been around.
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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FYI In Michael Strahan's book, he states that Kiwanuka is the best young pass rusher he has ever been around.
I love me some kiwi.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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So which Giants' defensive end is currently God's ultimate gift to pass rushing?

We've had to hear that it was mighty and unstoppable Osi Umenyiora for a few years, I guess it's Justin Tuck now.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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So which Giants' defensive end is currently God's ultimate gift to pass rushing?

We've had to hear that it was mighty and unstoppable Osi Umenyiora for a few years, I guess it's Justin Tuck now.
I still think Osi's our best DE at the moment, although Tuck's versatility is huge and kiwi has the potential to put all of them to shame. So I guess all 3 are god's gift to pass rushing.
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Old 08-13-2008, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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So which Giants' defensive end is currently God's ultimate gift to pass rushing?

We've had to hear that it was mighty and unstoppable Osi Umenyiora for a few years, I guess it's Justin Tuck now.
easily Osi. hes the best DE, ever. He's so awesome...<3
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Old 08-13-2008, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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FYI In Michael Strahan's book, he states that Kiwanuka is the best young pass rusher he has ever been around.
Is that Michael Strahan the professional scout or Michael Strahan the respected position coach? Oh neither? Well then I don't give a **** what he thinks.
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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Is that Michael Strahan the professional scout or Michael Strahan the respected position coach? Oh neither? Well then I don't give a **** what he thinks.
Dayum.. Do NOT mess with The Professor.

On another note, I think the Giants will not be the same this year without Strahan. Especially off the field, where he was the glue that tried to keep everyone in line. Everyone talks about how scary the Cowboys locker room could potentially get. But the Giants locker room... that place has always been crazy volatile. At least they got rid of Shockey though. That's one less headache.
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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Dayum.. Do NOT mess with The Professor.

On another note, I think the Giants will not be the same this year without Strahan. Especially off the field, where he was the glue that tried to keep everyone in line. Everyone talks about how scary the Cowboys locker room could potentially get. But the Giants locker room... that place has always been crazy volatile. At least they got rid of Shockey though. That's one less headache.
not really D. we don't have any characters really. Madison is the leader and teacher or our young DB's(honestly, was another coach during the postseason.) Pierce was just as vocal last year, and everyone forgets how he challenged the team and called out the media before week 3 with the airhorn incident that got him scrutinized, but the team said later motivated them greatly. We don't have the prima-donna WR, you can say Plaxico, but he wouldn't come close to disrupting the locker room. Throw in other leaders like O'Hara and the comical leader in Osi, and our locker room will be just fine.

our locker room was crazy because of: Tiki, Shockey, Petigout leaking info, and yes, even Strahan early in the TC era calling him out. We're fine now, thanks for caring though :D
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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It's not a coincidence that they are only a +425 on the ML down in vegas right now or 6/1 on bodog to win the superbowl....in both cases 2nd best odds to win it all behind the pats. I really tried to keep homerism out of this as much as possible.
Not sure if this was addressed yet, but do you understand how making lines work? The fact that the Cowboys have the most fans in the country will always make their lines better (or worse depending on if you are looking to make money) than it should be. It is the same way for the Yankees. Cowboy fans are going to bet the Cowboys every year they think they have a halfway decent team. If Vegas has them at 15/1, they are going to lose a bunch of money if the Cwoboys actually win. Vegas does not make lines on who they actually think is the best team. They are in the business of just taking their 10%.
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Not sure if this was addressed yet, but do you understand how making lines work? The fact that the Cowboys have the most fans in the country will always make their lines better (or worse depending on if you are looking to make money) than it should be. It is the same way for the Yankees. Cowboy fans are going to bet the Cowboys every year they think they have a halfway decent team. If Vegas has them at 15/1, they are going to lose a bunch of money if the Cwoboys actually win. Vegas does not make lines on who they actually think is the best team. They are in the business of just taking their 10%.
Yes I understand how it works...and yes it was discussed earlier on page one....I just brought this up for the simple reason that 2/10 reviews weren't out of the ordinary for a team heavily favored to make it deep into the playoffs...whether it was because of heavy homers betting or not.
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Yes I understand how it works...and yes it was discussed earlier on page one....I just brought this up for the simple reason that 2/10 reviews weren't out of the ordinary for a team heavily favored to make it deep into the playoffs...whether it was because of heavy homers betting or not.
I don't care that you picked the Cowboys. They have a good team. I've just seen quite a few times on this site, where people don't understand how lines are made. The experts who make these lines don't actually handicap the games, they handicap how they think people will bet. It's just not a good way to back up an opinion or point.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Is that Michael Strahan the professional scout or Michael Strahan the respected position coach? Oh neither? Well then I don't give a **** what he thinks.
Before anybody saw Osi coming, Strahan spoke up. I would think one of the best defensive ends ever to play the game would know a thing or two when it comes to projecting talent. But certainly not more than a Bears fan who has a lot of posts on an internet forum, no way.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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So which Giants' defensive end is currently God's ultimate gift to pass rushing?

We've had to hear that it was mighty and unstoppable Osi Umenyiora for a few years, I guess it's Justin Tuck now.
You don't need to listen anymore if it really bugs you, just watch the games I guess. But don't say I didn't tell you.

Osi and Peppers....I still laugh about that one.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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I am a Giants fan, and I am in no way saying Tuck and Kiwi don't have the potential to be great... but I just can't judge them by what Strahan says, he may arguably be one of the greatest DEs of all time, but unless Kiwi and Tuck both prove Strahan right I won't trust him. For example (although Basketball) Michael Jordan may be the best basketball player ever but he really does not have an eye for talent, ex. Kwame Brown, Raymond Felton (he is decent nothing special).

If Strahan is proved right and they both excel greatly as pass rushers then, Strahan is credible, and should become a coach ASAP.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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I am a Giants fan, and I am in no way saying Tuck and Kiwi don't have the potential to be great... but I just can't judge them by what Strahan says, he may arguably be one of the greatest DEs of all time, but unless Kiwi and Tuck both prove Strahan right I won't trust him. For example (although Basketball) Michael Jordan may be the best basketball player ever but he really does not have an eye for talent, ex. Kwame Brown, Raymond Felton (he is decent nothing special).

If Strahan is proved right and they both excel greatly as pass rushers then, Strahan is credible, and should become a coach ASAP.
I never said Kiwanuka is going to be a star because of what Strahan said...it was just another bit of information to throw into the discussion.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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I never said Kiwanuka is going to be a star because of what Strahan said...it was just another bit of information to throw into the discussion.
I never said that, I was just stating my opinion on Strahan's scouting of DEs. ;)
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Before anybody saw Osi coming, Strahan spoke up. I would think one of the best defensive ends ever to play the game would know a thing or two when it comes to projecting talent. But certainly not more than a Bears fan who has a lot of posts on an internet forum, no way.
Actually I never said anything about Kiwi, I just think your example is a ****** one. I could really care less about the Giants either way.

So star talent equates to the ability to find other star talent? Is that why so many ex-greats turn into great coaches and general managers? Is that why Michael Jordan and Isaih Thomas are both up for executives of the year? How did Magic Johnson do as a head coach? Michael Irvin and Emmith Smith were two of the best players at their respective positions and they can't put together a coherant thought. The ability to play doesn't translate in the ability to scout, it's two totally different skill sets. You probably would think otherwise, but you would be very wrong.
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Old 08-13-2008, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Actually I never said anything about Kiwi, I just think your example is a ****** one. I could really care less about the Giants either way.

So star talent equates to the ability to find other star talent? Is that why so many ex-greats turn into great coaches and general managers? Is that why Michael Jordan and Isaih Thomas are both up for executives of the year? How did Magic Johnson do as a head coach? Michael Irvin and Emmith Smith were two of the best players at their respective positions and they can't put together a coherant thought. The ability to play doesn't translate in the ability to scout, it's two totally different skill sets. You probably would think otherwise, but you would be very wrong.
I agree that a good player does not a good scout make, but by the same token when you've been around the league and been around as many great defensive coaches as Strahan has you learn a few things.

While I don't think that either Tuck or Kiwi will be equal to Strahan's production as a single player I think that rotating them in to keep them fresh will prove to be an effecitve option... enough of one to nullify Strahan's on field production.

I will agree though that his leadership will be sorely missed. Then again its crazy to suggest that a veteran will always leave a big hole because young players and free agents can and do stand up as leaders.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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I agree that a good player does not a good scout make, but by the same token when you've been around the league and been around as many great defensive coaches as Strahan has you learn a few things.

While I don't think that either Tuck or Kiwi will be equal to Strahan's production as a single player I think that rotating them in to keep them fresh will prove to be an effecitve option... enough of one to nullify Strahan's on field production.

I will agree though that his leadership will be sorely missed. Then again its crazy to suggest that a veteran will always leave a big hole because young players and free agents can and do stand up as leaders.
I think Tuck can be as good a Strahan was last year. I have no doubt because he ws better than him last year. The problem is I'm not sure Kiwi can be. When it is third and long and Tuck moves back inside, can Kiwi be as good as Strahan was on the outside? That is yet to be seen. It hurts our overall depth and rotation more than anything.
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Old 08-13-2008, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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Iamcanadian, GIants too much time partying? Where the hell'd you get that from? that's the furthest thing from the truth.

see now I KNOW guys are pulling **** out of there ass(not thule, guys responding...
It's called the banquet circuit. Super Bowl players are in huge demand in the off season to attend banquets and is one of the reasons a lot of Super Bowl champions have a hard time repeating or even making the playoffs. If the team ever makes it back to a second championship, they are usually better prepared to handle the adoration that comes from winning but it is hard going after their 1st championship.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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It's called the banquet circuit. Super Bowl players are in huge demand in the off season to attend banquets and is one of the reasons a lot of Super Bowl champions have a hard time repeating or even making the playoffs. If the team ever makes it back to a second championship, they are usually better prepared to handle the adoration that comes from winning but it is hard going after their 1st championship.
Unless they were attending a ton of banquets outside the NY/NJ area, I don't think this will be a problem. Only for David Tyree. But he is on PUP after knee surgery anyway.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Unless they were attending a ton of banquets outside the NY/NJ area, I don't think this will be a problem. Only for David Tyree. But he is on PUP after knee surgery anyway.
I'm a firm believer that this is why so many Super Bowl winners fail to repeat or even make the playoffs. Even NE failed miserably in their second try.
While the players on teams that came very close to making it to the Super Bowl spend the off season in the gym getting ready for next season, the Giant's players are spending the off season going on the banquet cuircut for which they are paid hansomely. By ther time training camp rolls around, they've not stayed in shape and have a lot of conditioning to do to get back into shape. It usually means a poor start to the season and a hard route to the playoffs.
If you think there is a different reason why Super Bowl teams play poorly the following season then give me a better explanation.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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I'm a firm believer that this is why so many Super Bowl winners fail to repeat or even make the playoffs. Even NE failed miserably in their second try.
While the players on teams that came very close to making it to the Super Bowl spend the off season in the gym getting ready for next season, the Giant's players are spending the off season going on the banquet cuircut for which they are paid hansomely. By ther time training camp rolls around, they've not stayed in shape and have a lot of conditioning to do to get back into shape. It usually means a poor start to the season and a hard route to the playoffs.
If you think there is a different reason why Super Bowl teams play poorly the following season then give me a better explanation.
That wouldn't explain why superbowl losers have been even worse than the winners the past 10 years.
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