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Old 08-24-2008, 04:47 PM    (permalink
Geo
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Well, if the restructing in question is converting salary to allocated bonus money, then no thanks. The team would still be on the hook for his money, but would be paying it out over more than one year.

Again, Harrison isn't worth it imo. He has always been the weak link in the playoffs and there's younger talent now. I bet if you add up the numbers, Gonzalez, Hall, and Garcon make less than 3M combined. The Colts locked up Dallas Clark for a reason, at around 5.5-6M per. Those four combined could make up Harrison's salary in '09, and it only gets higher in '10 and '11.

Hopefully the Colts can trade Harrison for something, if not then cut him outright and maybe he signs back at one-third of the cost of his current backloaded contract.
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Old 08-24-2008, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Here's a brass balls prediction taken off one of yours. After Houshmanzadeh bails on Cincy, he doesn't do much the rest of his career. Too many people like to say he's the better of the duo with him and 85, when in reality, he's in trouble without Chad taking most of the gameplan away from him
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Old 08-24-2008, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure about that. Even if Housh declines, he'd still be a great option from the slot. He can line up at all three spots right now.

Now if he goes to a crummy situation and never puts up the same numbers again, that could happen.

Hmm, who might go after Housh next summer?
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Old 08-24-2008, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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He's a solid option sure but I don't see him as a top tier #1 on his own. His game makes him one of the best #2 options in the league and is in a near perfect scenario for it. I'm not saying he'd be Edge out of Indy bad, just not someone who makes a lot of noise or impact
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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As a Bengals fan I agree Housh' production would decline after leaving Cincy. He's arguably one of the best #2s (Argued against Boldin / Welker / Wayne), but Chad takes so much heat off of Housh that it makes his game look a lot better than it is. Unless he goes to a place that has a solid #1 and a QB as good as or better than Palmer then I doubt his production goes up. And honestly, I don't see any teams with that scenario in mind paying out the ass for a #2.

Either way, Housh is like a folk hero in cincy and I'd hate it if we got rid of him, but its been looming over my head all off-season since we haven't decided to give him a new contract and we drafted 3 WR's this year.
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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If you're going to lose Houshmandzadeh after '08, you've got to start developing receivers now at least. Can't throw rookies in there for Palmer.

Wide receivers and cornerbacks take more time to develop.
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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If you're going to lose Houshmandzadeh after '08, you've got to start developing receivers now at least. Can't throw rookies in there for Palmer.

Wide receivers and cornerbacks take more time to develop.
That's what their draft strategy seems to reflect, given that they picked up Simpson and Caldwell. and Honestly if they're gonna sign Henry this year and let Housh go, he's probably part of their plan too.
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure about that. Even if Housh declines, he'd still be a great option from the slot. He can line up at all three spots right now.

Now if he goes to a crummy situation and never puts up the same numbers again, that could happen.

Hmm, who might go after Housh next summer?
I know where you're going with this ..... and I'm cool with it.
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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I'm good, but that is a secret motive to even me. :D

Honestly, I was just asking out loud where he might go. Where do you think, Borat?

San Fran? I say no. They have Jason Hill and John Morgan, plus veteran Isaac Bruce. Shaun McDonald will be a free agent next summer, he could be a cheaper option for Martz, whether Martz is the offensive coordinator or the head coach (yes you read that right).
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Well, if the restructing in question is converting salary to allocated bonus money, then no thanks. The team would still be on the hook for his money, but would be paying it out over more than one year.

Again, Harrison isn't worth it imo. He has always been the weak link in the playoffs and there's younger talent now. I bet if you add up the numbers, Gonzalez, Hall, and Garcon make less than 3M combined. The Colts locked up Dallas Clark for a reason, at around 5.5-6M per. Those four combined could make up Harrison's salary in '09, and it only gets higher in '10 and '11.

Hopefully the Colts can trade Harrison for something, if not then cut him outright and maybe he signs back at one-third of the cost of his current backloaded contract.
So if Marvin goes out and produces like Marvin (we'll say 80-1400-12), you don't want him back for 09, even if he restructures?
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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Marvin to Dallas FTW!
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Old 08-24-2008, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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So if Marvin goes out and produces like Marvin (we'll say 80-1400-12), you don't want him back for 09, even if he restructures?
I'm not expecting 1400 and 12, nor the 700 and 6 I'm seeing some places. More like 1000 and 8 imo.

But if he does produce 1400/12, then maybe they keep him for one more year. Or his trade value would be improved, which is good.
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Old 08-24-2008, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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I'm good, but that is a secret motive to even me. :D

Honestly, I was just asking out loud where he might go. Where do you think, Borat?

San Fran? I say no. They have Jason Hill and John Morgan, plus veteran Isaac Bruce. Shaun McDonald will be a free agent next summer, he could be a cheaper option for Martz, whether Martz is the offensive coordinator or the head coach (yes you read that right).
Yes, I was thinking SF. I mean, who wants to go to the urinal that is Oakland when SF is so much nicer?

For 2009, they got Bryant Johnson, Arnaz Battle and hopefully JOSH Morgan is the real deal. There is definitely room for a star like Houshmazilly. I'm not sold on Jason Hill and I doubt Isaac Bruce comes back. McDonald is a possibility though. Hadn't thought of him.

And yes, I unfortunately could see Martz becoming HC.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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ewww I hope not
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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Marvin to Dallas FTW!
Marvin can't play across from anti-Marvin. The universe would explode.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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I can't fathom any reasoning why Carolina misses the playoffs at this stage of the game. Its a solid unit in a weak schedule and conference.

This... from a Panthers fan? Needless to say I'm shocked and surprised.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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I can't imagine Dallas having the money, but I still won't rule out Jerry Jones making a play for Roy Williams. The good one, the wide receiver.

Or maybe a project like Michael Clayton of the Bucs, who Jones could sign cheap and hope to get more out of with a talented team.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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I can't imagine Dallas having the money, but I still won't rule out Jerry Jones making a play for Roy Williams. The good one, the wide receiver.

Or maybe a project like Michael Clayton of the Bucs, who Jones could sign cheap and hope to get more out of with a talented team.
Jerry might go after Roy Williams, but i doubt he'd waste his time or money on Clayton or anyone of his level. We have plenty of guys to develop instead of using a career, average-joe.
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Old 08-26-2008, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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I think my only argument is Greg Williams. Greg is a stubborn douchebag, but he's a very good DC. He'll never win an award for Person of the Year, but the man knows how to make the most out of his defense.

Look at the Redskins. Outside of Taylor (RIP) and Landry, he had squat on defense. McIntosh was out for basically the entire season. He somehow got that defense to be a top 10 defense in the league. He managed to get an 05 Redskin defense as a top 5 in the league with no pass rusher on the dline. The man knows how to get the most out of what he has. He'll make that Jaguars defense better.


It might take some adjustment for the Jaguars to get what he wants them to do, but towards the latter end of the season, the Jags defense will be better for it. Greg Williams makes that defense better.

Other than that, I can't say i disagree with much.

Great thread.
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Old 08-26-2008, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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Marvin can't play across from anti-Marvin. The universe would explode.
I agree. Terrell Owens is a wide receiver who actually produced last year and wasn't investigated in a shooting! To see him have to give up receptions to someone else would be ridiculous!
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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I can't imagine Dallas having the money, but I still won't rule out Jerry Jones making a play for Roy Williams. The good one, the wide receiver.

Or maybe a project like Michael Clayton of the Bucs, who Jones could sign cheap and hope to get more out of with a talented team.
Roy Williams and Housh will probably be heavily courted in Philly. While I think that Curtis is a good option as is DeSean Jackson, neither or them strike me as bonafide number one receivers. With Roy Williams or Housh taking a lot of coverage away the other two could flourish.

Miami is still really lacking in receiver talent.

There's always a market it seems for good receivers.
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Philly will really court Houshmandzadeh, he'll be 31 this September and they'd rather invest younger.

Like Roy Williams, who will be 27 years old this December. Phenomenal mention, BlindSite. Williams would be great for Philly, he can run routes but also provide a big play ability, and he won't be a negative personality in any way to either Kolb or McNabb.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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Except, Detroit will franchise Roy Williams. He isn't goinmg anywhere and I doubt Hous is either. I think teams will be disappointed with either of Cincy's WR's unless they have another Palmer to throw to them. Franchise QB's have a way of making WR's look a lot better than they are.
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Old 08-26-2008, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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Franchise tag I've always seen as an easy measure to garner trade bait. IMO if you don't want to keep a guy but could use his ability then you franchise them.

Other teams will come knocking to give you a pick, where even a 4th is better than nothing, or rather, better than anything the supplemental will give you and it allows you to get rid of them out of your division.

The other benefit is, if no one wants him, you can draft his replacement and give him a year on the bench to learn behind the guy who's about to leave.

Not many receivers are going to care too much about getting paid money in the top 10 for their position while they increase their price tag playing a lame duck season. Players realise there's not really a guaranteed contract in the NFL anyway.
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Old 08-26-2008, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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[quote=Geo;1183872]NFL Truths are so last year. Please read and share your own thoughts.

2008 BRASS DEEP BALLS

Houshmandseeya
Bengals’ veteran wide receiver TJ Houshmandzadeh, a crafty route-runner who can line up anywhere, lives in the Los Angeles area during the offseason. His contract runs through 2008, and he’ll take this opportunity to finally cash in big for the first time in his career and sign elsewhere. Will Houshmandzadeh be signed by the close-to-home Oakland Raiders, for Al Davis to give his young quarterback and the receiving core a veteran to lean on and learn from? No, Davis will instead sign Michael Jenkins (Atlanta Falcons) and Michael Clayton (Tampa Bay Bucs). Meanwhile back in Cincy, the Chad Johnson situation is over. He was drafted by the team, developed and excelled with the team, and will remain with them for some time. With TJ gone, he’s now the man in Cincy again and the Bengals will develop a young receiving core behind him. And after two injury-plagued seasons in ‘06 and ‘07, young players had the chance to develop such that this season we could see the best Bengals’ offensive line since ‘05.

---You don't know Al Davis very well. He loves his WR's to have elite speed. He would have absolutely no interest in the slow Michael Crayton and minimal interest in Michael Jenkins. They simply aren't his type of WR.
Unfortunately Cincy's going nowhere fast. Brown got lucky with Palmer but he is a very weak GM who wastes far too many draft picks on flops.

Head East, young man
The Cowboys’ offensive line has managed to avoid injury the last two years, but that luck will run out this season. However they will still make the playoffs along with two other NFC East teams like last year, except this season the Eagles will get in instead of the Redskins. The Eagles should be back in the playoffs, Jim Johnson is doing as good a job as he’s ever done and now he has more play making talent to work with to hopefully generate more turnovers. Donovan McNabb needs to stop flapping his gums and just get it job done, he has the offensive line and the weapons to do the job else next year starts the Kevin Kolb era. However do not overlook the Redskins offense that new head Jim Zorn is building, it’s going to something as young receivers Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, and Fred Davis develop. Jason Campbell’s best years are ahead of him, as he grows with these big and talented players.

---I agree the Eagles have a shot at getting in but the big question mark as always is McNabb's health. If he cannot stay healthy all bets are off and I wouldn't count on any Kolb era ever happening. As for Washington, I think they will really miss Gibbs, he kept Snyder away from the team and without him Snyder could return to his interfering way. I think Dallas has enough depth to survive an injury to their OL but I don't think the Giants will survive the injury to Osi. It's tough enough to repeat after winning your 1st SB, NE couldn't do it and I doubt the Giants will either.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner
So if the big, bad NFC East rules the playoff roost, who are the other NFC teams to make the playoffs? Seattle wins 11 games, New Orleans wins 10, and the post-Favre Packers get into the playoffs with 9 wins. So yes Kool-Aid drinkers, the super sexy Super Bowl pick Minnesota Vikings don’t even make the playoffs - they still can’t pass enough and defend the pass enough to get it done, I‘m afraid. The defense under Leslie Frazier is a year away. But they won’t be the only Vegas hot pick to be at home come January, the New England Patriots will not be in Super Bowl XLIII. Homefield advantage won’t be enough to make up for their roster deficiencies, most notably in the secondary.

---There is simply no other team that has the talent to beat out Minny in the NFC North. If Jackson can stay healthy, I expect a very improved player to emerge. IMO, the Packers will be lucky to go 7-9. Their defense is solid but their offense will miss Favre. You don't realize how much he meant to their offense. Without him, their RB and WR's will be exposed as average players unless you think Rodgers will be a franchise QB out of the chute as a 1st time starter.
It's hard to judge NE right now as we don't know how serious Brady's injury is, but if he is healthy, they are still the overwhelming favourite to return to the SB. Peyton's injury appears far more serious and San Diego has lost Merriman, the heart and soul of their defense, so whose left to challenge NE.

Better get the resume ready
Not Bill Belichick of course, but rather turn your attention to the NFC West. Expect some turnover but not in terms of the standings. Despite the Seahawks being so weakened receiving-wise, Arizona won’t dethrone Seattle if Cardinals head coach Ken Wisenhunt doesn’t start the best quarterback on the roster in Kurt Warner. Warner is a turnover machine, but at least he can attack opposing defenses well beyond that. However Coach Wiz isn’t in desperate need of keeping his job like Rams head coach Scott Linehan and 49ers head coach Mike Nolan are, and unfortunately for both, they come up short this season and get the pink slips.

---Hard to argue against the obvious, that Linehan and Nolan are on the hot seat. Pretty well everybody is aware that these 2 guys had better produce or they are gone.

Lamest Show on Turf
I like Nolan, but the team has not drafted well enough under him, and right or wrong he‘ll be the one to pay for results like Vernon Davis never being worth his draft pick. Same deal with Linehan, most if not all of the front office should be fired along with him. They’ve been nothing more than average, especially when it comes to the Draft (Brian Leonard is a bust, scottyboy). This has played a big part in the Greatest Show on Turf being a distant memory. Marc Bulger cashed in for a major payday, and when I see him now I wonder about his heart and his spine - his best years are behind him. Torry Holt is gone after the 2009 season, he‘s not worth extending at 34 years old and with his ever-constant knee issues, plus in his ever-inflated sense of ego has an eye towards leaving already. The brightest spot on the offensive line is Jacob Bell, who the team signed as a free agent this past summer from the Tennessee Titans, as everyone else needs to be upgraded. At least stud runningback Steven Jackson has been re-signed to a top-dollar contract, so that’s good that they’ve locked him up. Still, the Rams regime that hired Linehan deserves to be replaced by others who can hopefully do a better job to get this team back on top. Though Jim Haslett, defensive coordinator of the Rams, is doing the best defensive coaching job that no one unfortunately knows about.

You don’t know Jack? No need to get defensive
Speaking of defensive coordinators, the addition of Gregg Williams of Jacksonville won’t help much - if anything, it could hurt the team. Williams is an idiot who doesn’t make the most of the talent in his employ, and the Jacksonville Jaguars are Jack Del Rio’s team and his alone, defense most assuredly included. Too bad for the team, because the defense is progressively getting worse with each passing year. It didn’t help that money was wasted on Drayton Florence in free agency, as he’s not any good, meanwhile Rashean Mathis is degrading with each passing year the last two years. And up front, the once two-headed monster of the interior is no more with the trade of Marcus Stroud to Buffalo. Linebacker stays strong though, thanks to strong draft picks like promising 2007 2nd round pick Justin Durant, such that the team will let veteran Mike Peterson walk this summer after his contract is fulfilled.

---Well Joe Gibbs appreciated Williams as his DC and I'll take his opinion over yours any day of the year. I think the Jaguars defense will be fine. If I were a Jacksonville fan, I'd be far more worried that Garrard won't come close to matching his last year's performance after DC's spend the summer studying him far more closely. He'll be OK but maybe not special.

Sticks out like a Vince Young
However as the Jaguars defense gets worse, the offense is getting better. I really like David Garrard, he was paid monster money this summer like the aforementioned Marc Bulger but Garrard’s best years are definitely ahead of him. He can make his reads and deliver the ball anywhere with accuracy and touch, he just needs to stay healthy and make sure he continues to limit his turnovers (more ’07 than ’06). I also really like fellow AFC South quarterback Matt Schaub. I think he has a great arsenal of weapons even if they aren’t well known beyond stud Andre Johnson, but a receiving core of Kevin Walter, Andre Davis, and Owen Daniels brings a lot to the table. Especially for Schaub who can make his reads, has good pocket presence, and quickly release the ball with great accuracy. He just needs the protection up front, and Houston signed offensive line guru Alex Gibbs to set things straight. I loved the Steve Slaton pick in the Draft, he was great value in the third round and fits the zone-blocking run scheme very well: we could be looking at a poor man’s Clinton Portis in Houston if Slaton gets the opportunity and makes the most of it over some veteran backs who can‘t stay healthy.

--- I tend to agree with you about Houston. With Peyton's injury the Division could be wide open. I also like Slaton, he has a real shot at OROY.

Better get the resume ready II
The last wild card spot in the AFC will be a battle between the Texans, Bills, and Jets. While the Carolina Panthers may miss the playoffs by a bit and a good many are already expecting John Fox and company in Carolina to get the axe, and personally I would have already fired them some time ago, I think the team does well enough to spare them. Although how tempting will it be with Bill Cowher out there, if he’s ready to coach again? That would be a huge story, to see who would court him. Maybe even Detroit comes into play, because Matt Millen will finally be fired after this season. Oh yes Lions fans, it will finally happen.

---I think you have to include Tampa Bay. I like them better than the Bills or the Jets although the Jets are a tough call. As for Carolina, they go as far as the reconstructed Delhomme can carry them. You cannot write them off just yet. As for Matt Millen, I don't think you understand how incompetent Ford is as an owner. Millen may well be around for 2 or 3 more years before Ford ever fires him.

Remaining last but not least, the Colts
Three big items for the price of one: (1) Dwight Freeney, after an injury cut his ‘07 season short, in turn delivers a great ‘08 season that not only gets him back to Honolulu but wins him Comeback Player of the Year as well; (2) Head coach Tony Dungy will not retire after this season; (3) Neither will Marvin Harrison, but he won’t be in a Colts uniform come September 2009.

---Unfortunately for the Colts, Peyton suffered the exact same injury that destroyed Harrison's season last year. If it has the same effect on Manning, it could be a very long season for Indy.
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