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Old 09-02-2008, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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ZOMGZ The Eagles have a real punt returner! ZOMGZ I'm so excited. What's it like having a returner who goes more than five yards before getting tackled?
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Old 09-02-2008, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bored of education View Post
4 position starters(LT, DT, CB, FB) v. 3(DE, RG, LT) and one special teams (k)kicker?

4 position starters and a nickle corner, backup safety, slot receiver, back up TE, back up DE, and kr and pr vs. 3 positional starters a kicker, a back up qb, a back up DLineman, number 3??

Dude

Albert, Dorsey, Flowers, Cox, Carr, Morgan, Cottam, Charles, Savage, Johnston, Franklin have a greater infuence from DAY ONE..not using speculation and what could happen than Miami.


I'm not being a homer. The numbers of rookies who will see time the 1st game is greater than that of the Dolphins.

Sorry
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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ZOMGZ The Eagles have a real punt returner! ZOMGZ I'm so excited. What's it like having a returner who goes more than five yards before getting tackled?
No more Reno Mahe?

:(
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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No more Reno Mahe?

:(
No more Reno!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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They forgot that the Panthers have Charles Godfrey at FS, as well as Otah at tackle.
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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They forgot that the Panthers have Charles Godfrey at FS, as well as Otah at tackle.
I did not forget that.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 09-02-2008, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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That's because you're a smart feller unlike the people who write for NFL.com
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Old 09-02-2008, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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The Bills dont have any rookies starting.

I think we might even see more Chris Ellis rather than McKelvin on defense this sunday.
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Old 09-02-2008, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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I prefer when rookies aren't thrown into the fire but these top picks are being paid so much that teams are being forced into starting roles.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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4 position starters(LT, DT, CB, FB) v. 3(DE, RG, LT) and one special teams (k)kicker?

4 position starters and a nickle corner, backup safety, slot receiver, back up TE, back up DE, and kr and pr vs. 3 positional starters a kicker, a back up qb, a back up DLineman, number 3??

Dude

Albert, Dorsey, Flowers, Cox, Carr, Morgan, Cottam, Charles, Savage, Johnston, Franklin have a greater infuence from DAY ONE..not using speculation and what could happen than Miami.


I'm not being a homer. The numbers of rookies who will see time the 1st game is greater than that of the Dolphins.

Sorry
Since when does a FB have more value then a kicker. I know kickers are laughed at and all that good stuff but seriously you can't really tell me you think your FB will have more impact then our kicker. Not having a good kicker can kill teams. Not having a good FB is no big deal, they are a dime a dozen on the waiver wire.

If you want to bring it up tho.

Here are the rookies to watch for the Chiefs: Albert, Dorsey, Flowers, Cox, Carr, Morgan, Cottam, Charles, Savage, Johnston, Franklin.

Here are the ones to watch for the Dolphins: Long, Langford, Thomas, Merling, Henne, Bess, Carpenter, Parmele, Murphy.

Let's go down the list. Long will be better then Albert. Lon has done enough to earn the job. Albert is given it because they have no one else. He's just as likely to be a liability as an asset from day 1. Advantage Dolphins.

Dorsey and Langford are likely to be a wash. Dorsey has more upside but he will struggle this season as he will be the only one to worry about on the Chiefs DL. Miami has a good DL which will allow Langford more room to make plays. Pretty even as far as this season goes. Push

Flowers has a leg up on Thomas as starting CBs are more valuable then starting OGs. Advantage Chiefs.

((So far we are dead even between the teams.))

Franklin isn't your slot WR at this point as don't embellish. He is running 4th behind Bowe, Darling, and Webb. Bess on the other hand will be our slot WR from day 1. Franklin should take that position fairly early but for now this has to be Advantage Dolphins.

Carr is likely about equal to Merling. Carr will be your nickel CB. Merling is our primary backup at DE. He will be getting starters minutes when Holliday drops back to LB and when Langford needs a rest. Push

Jamal Charles is equal to Jalen Parmele. Both are number 3 RBs this year. Push.

Cottam is equal to Shawn Murphy. Our primary backup at OG with your primary backup TE. Push.

((Dolphins slightly up due to Bess over Franklin.))

Carpenter and Cox, I'll give you a wash just to be nice but it should be advantage Dolphins. FB is likely the least important position to fill and Cox ain't anything special. But since Carpenter is just a kicker I'll say it's a push.

Henne will have more impact then Morgan. With Chad Pennington's injury history, Henne will get some PT this season and even with limited amounts of time will have more impact then a backup safety just because Henne plays the most important position on the field. Advantage Dolphins.


((Dolphins up by a fair amount due to Bess over Franklin and Henne over Morgan))

You still have Savage and Johnston.

Johnston isn't any more likely to make an impact then a guy like Nate Garner that Miami just picked up to be their backup OT. Johnston is what your 4th DE? Garner is our 4th OT. Push.

Savage will be your returner while the Dolphins have run out of rookies to counter. Obviously advantage KC.

((Consider the Dolphins were up by a fair amount, I'd say adding in Savage balances it out. Both team are dead even))

It's definitely closer to call then I had originally thought but both teams do seem pretty even at this point. However, don't forget that fact that KC had more draft picks then any team in the NFL with 2 of those picks being in the top 15 overall. Dolphins were working with way less and still look like they have just as many if not more impact rookies on their roster.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Let's go down the list. Long will be better then Albert because Long is the greatest OT in the history of football!
Fixed that for you.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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Let's go down the list. Long will be better then Albert. Lon has done enough to earn the job. Albert is given it because they have no one else. He's just as likely to be a liability as an asset from day 1. Advantage Dolphins. [b[I wouldn't call it a great advantage right now since they are both rookies and havent had one start and playing same position. Barely Dolphins.[/b]

Dorsey and Langford are likely to be a wash. Dorsey has more upside but he will struggle this season as he will be the only one to worry about on the Chiefs DL. Miami has a good DL which will allow Langford more room to make plays. Pretty even as far as this season goes. PushHe will be first day, one of the top 3 defenders on the Chiefs. He was viewed as the number one overall player in this years draft. RIGHT NOW he is at a greater advantage and will have a very good season. I wouldnt call that a wash at all.


((So far we are dead even between the teams.)) not really a number one CB has much greater impact than a starting guard with a good line already around him.

Franklin isn't your slot WR at this point as don't embellish. He is running 4th behind Bowe, Darling, and Webb. Bess on the other hand will be our slot WR from day 1. Franklin should take that position fairly early but for now this has to be Advantage Dolphins.[b] I'll give you that one./b]



Jamal Charles is equal to Jalen Parmele. Both are number 3 RBs this year. Push. push maybe Charles is one of the kck returners, so close enough for a push


Henne will have more impact then Morgan. With Chad Pennington's injury history, Henne will get some PT this season and even with limited amounts of time will have more impact then a backup safety just because Henne plays the most important position on the field. Advantage Dolphins. OUr primary backup safety, a special teams gunner, and major roles in special teams is greater than a backup Qb who may NEVER see the field..I dont see it an advantage for the Phins...more likely a push




Johnston isn't any more likely to make an impact then a guy like Nate Garner that Miami just picked up to be their backup OT. Johnston is what your 4th DE? Garner is our 4th OT. Push.Johnston is the backup DE. Number one back up to both Hali and McBride..he could merge above those two crappy guys so I'll say advantage chiefs.

Savage will be your returner while the Dolphins have run out of rookies to counter. Obviously advantage KC.

((Consider the Dolphins were up by a fair amount, I'd say adding in Savage balances it out. Both team are dead even))

It's definitely closer to call then I had originally thought but both teams do seem pretty even at this point. However, don't forget that fact that KC had more draft picks then any team in the NFL with 2 of those picks being in the top 15 overall. Dolphins were working with way less and still look like they have just as many if not more impact rookies on their roster.
RIght now more influence like I said. I highlighted the major parts I had an issue with
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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RIght now more influence like I said. I highlighted the major parts I had an issue with
The fact that you called Dorsey the number 1 player in the draft (it was clearly McFadden), the fact that you think Albert who has been hurt all preseason and basically handed a job by default and didn't even play OT in college will produce as much as the number 1 overall pick and guy who has been playing well all offseason, and the fact that you think a special teams gunner has more value then a backup QB shows the homerism of your post.

You can say Flowers has a better impact then Thomas but fact is that Flowers while playing a more important position, likely will not play anywhere near the level of Thomas. Flowers will have tons of growing pains as a CB. It's one of the hardest positions to learn and he will be covering some very good wideouts on his own. Thomas is playing a position that is easy to succeed in and has good players around him to take the pressure off. Flowers plays a better position, Thomas is likely to be more productive. It's definately advantage Chiefs but lets not make it out to be this huge thing.

The biggest thing I can't get over, is your blatant contrast in what you say. On one hand you say that Branden Albert and Jake Long are a wash because they "are both rookies and havent had one start and playing same position" but then when you have Kendal Langford and Glenn Dorsey who "are both rookies and havent had one start and playing basically the same position" you say Dorsey has a huge advantage? You basically are picking an point and using it to support the outcome you want but ignoring it when it supports the outcome you don't want.

Lastly, how can you think a special teams gunner has as much value as a backup QB? Have you seen the amount of time backup QBs have played the last few years? Go look it up. It's alot more then you think. Add the fact that Chad Pennington is one of the most injury prone QBs in the game, and the fact that Chad Henne is the Dolphins future and will get some time in to learn and grow. Henne definitely will get plenty of PT this season and will make much more of an impact at QB then Morgan will as a ST gunner and backup safety.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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As a rookie he is still likely better than Kwame Harris.
Maybe in pass protection if Kwame figured out how to move his feet in pass pro he would be a stud
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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Let's go down the list. Long will be better then Albert. Lon has done enough to earn the job. Albert is given it because they have no one else. He's just as likely to be a liability as an asset from day 1. Advantage Dolphins.
And who did long have to win the job from? And either way why is this argument important?
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 09-03-2008, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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RIght now more influence like I said. I highlighted the major parts I had an issue with
The only issue I have with your highlights is that you say Glenn is a top 3 defender on the Chiefs...I think he's already the unquestionable number 1. Yes, even over DJ.

the Chiefs did smoke the fins in the draft, if Albert isn't a complete flop.
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Old 09-03-2008, 01:21 AM    (permalink
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The only issue I have with your highlights is that you say Glenn is a top 3 defender on the Chiefs...I think he's already the unquestionable number 1. Yes, even over DJ.

the Chiefs did smoke the fins in the draft, if Albert isn't a complete flop.
Who knows. Can't say that for a few years now. Remember the Cardinals had all those "great" drafts under Green. Basically they took a ton of NFLDC favorites. Didn't mean they were the best. I kind of have the same sense with the Chiefs draft. Parcells and crew know how to fit guys into their system.
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Old 09-03-2008, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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And who did long have to win the job from? And either way why is this argument important?
Um...Vernon Carey.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Um...Vernon Carey.
Isn't Carey moving to RT? I don't think it's a tough decision on Parcells to have Long win that position battle if the guy he's replacing can be an improvement somewhere else. In fact, it almost feels like Carey won the RT spot, and Long was just given the LT spot - considering how much it would cost to bench your #1 overall pick and get zero production out of him.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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The part of the article that is stupid is when he talks about a few teams with bad records like the Jets and mentions that they have no rookies starting as a sign of future problems. At least in the case of the Jets, they spent 800 billion dollars on free agents this year so that's one reason no rookies are starting. Additionally just because they aren't starting doesn't mean many rookies aren't going to make an impact. In fact, Dwight Lowery may actually be starting week one after the injury to Justin Miller. Keller is going to be in all the time as a pass catching threat and Gholston will see time as a pass rusher.

The article was quickly put together and little research was done.
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 24cadillac24 View Post
Sedrick Ellis will be pancaked at least 30-35 times.
Haha, lawlz. Ellis will make Faine cry at night.
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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not surprising to me. i never understood why ppl were so down on him. he was great to me.


very underrated pass blocker, and i thought he was decent in the run game too. i liked him a lot coming out.

The draft world got very down on Sam Baker because of his atrocious game against Oregon State a few years back when he was completely B****ed by the Oregon State DE all game long, not to mention he couldn't open a hole to save his life on the ground either. Obviously it was the worst game of his career, but he stood out so badly in a USC lost, which they rarely do, that everyone remembered it just like everyone will remember Winston Justice against New York last year.
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Old 09-03-2008, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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ZOMGZ The Eagles have a real punt returner! ZOMGZ I'm so excited. What's it like having a returner who goes more than five yards before getting tackled?
Where did the DeSean Jackson hate go?
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Old 09-03-2008, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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Barry Richardson will be taking over the Rt position anyday now. He has looked better than Damion McIntosh, which is not saying much. But Richardson seemed to have that nasty attitude to the game like he had his junior year.
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Old 09-03-2008, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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Haha, lawlz. Ellis will make Faine cry at night.

Jeremy Zuttah>>>>>>>Sedrick Ellis
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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