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Old 09-13-2008, 09:21 PM    (permalink
johnstonolb
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What Roy Williams is to safeties -- De Angelo is to CB.
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Old 09-13-2008, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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What Roy Williams is to safeties -- De Angelo is to CB.

Well, that is a completely and utter ridiculous statement.
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Old 09-13-2008, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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Yes, it was.
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Old 09-13-2008, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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edit: nvm wrong thread.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 09-14-2008, 06:08 AM    (permalink
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Way to ignore the stats I posted.

Charles Woodson - Targeted 62 times (16% of pass plays) / 58% success rate (8th in the NFL) / Average Yards Gained 7.7 / 10 passes defended / 4 passes intercepted

Al Harris - Targeted 74 times (17% of pass plays) / 40% success rate (74th in the NFL) / Average Yards Gained 9.4 / 8 passes defended / 2 passes intercepted

That's not a slight difference. That's a huge difference. Harris was, for all intents and purposes, one of the very worst cornerbacks to start all 16 games of the regular season. This has nothing to do with the game he played against Plaxico Burress and everything to do with that fact that he mostly stunk last season.
I'll have to disagree. Where are you getting these statistics by the way?
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:00 AM    (permalink
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I'll have to disagree. Where are you getting these statistics by the way?
Woodson was undoubtedly better than Harris last year. Woodson had a fantastic season while Harris seemed to lose a step... but saying Al was one of the worst starting corners is crazy.
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Old 09-14-2008, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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Woodson was undoubtedly better than Harris last year. Woodson had a fantastic season while Harris seemed to lose a step... but saying Al was one of the worst starting corners is crazy.
I agree. Woodson was better, but Harris was in no way a bad player.
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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I'll have to disagree. Where are you getting these statistics by the way?
if the stats are legit, and I assume they are, then there is nothing left to argue, sir.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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I'll have to disagree. Where are you getting these statistics by the way?
Football Outsiders' stat dictionary of the 2007 season: Football Prospectus.

Unless you provide some proof to your disagreement you have no ground to stand on.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
Football Outsiders' stat dictionary of the 2007 season: Football Prospectus.

Unless you provide some proof to your disagreement you have no ground to stand on.
I watched every game? Name 10 corners in the NFC who are better than Harris.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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I watched every game? Name 10 corners in the NFC who are better than Harris.
Then what you saw obviously doesn't jive with what the stat trackers saw. Well, let's just ignore that 73 NFL corners had better success rates than Harris last year.

In no particular order...

Ken Lucas
Marcus Trufant
Terrance Newman
Nate Clements
Mike McKenzie
Sheldon Brown
Ronde Barber
Shawn Springs
Charles Woodson
Asante Samuel

That's not even counting all the corners who had better 2007's statistically, like Richard Marshall, Charles Tillman, Leigh Bodden, Roderick Hood, Antoine Winfield, and Sam Madison.

In fact, the only other fairly well thought of NFC corner I could find that had a worse season than Harris was Lito Sheppard.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Then what you saw obviously doesn't jive with what the stat trackers saw. Well, let's just ignore that 73 NFL corners had better success rates than Harris last year.

In no particular order...

Ken Lucas
Marcus Trufant
Terrance Newman
Nate Clements
Mike McKenzie
Sheldon Brown
Ronde Barber
Shawn Springs
Charles Woodson
Asante Samuel

That's not even counting all the corners who had better 2007's statistically, like Richard Marshall, Charles Tillman, Leigh Bodden, Roderick Hood, Antoine Winfield, and Sam Madison.

In fact, the only other fairly well thought of NFC corner I could find that had a worse season than Harris was Lito Sheppard.
Are you kidding me? Mike McKenzie? Shawn Springs? Do you watch football?
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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Are you kidding me? Mike McKenzie? Shawn Springs? Do you watch football?
Duh. Stats mean everything and are the only valuable source of an argument.

/Sarcasm.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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The game that sticks out to me was the Thanksgiving game against the Lions. We was abused badly by Roy Williams all game. Unfortunately, that was the game that Mike Martz tried to force the ball to Calvin Johnson. Calvin was Jon Kitna's first and only read on most passing plays, so we couldn't take advantage of the horrible coverage by Harris. In the middle of the game, Harris actually asked Roy why the Lions weren't throwing to his side more.
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Old 09-14-2008, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Are you kidding me? Mike McKenzie? Shawn Springs? Do you watch football?
McKenzie was great last year. According to Saints fans, he only gave up one touchdown (to Roddy White).
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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McKenzie was great last year. According to Saints fans, he only gave up one touchdown (to Roddy White).
As was Shaun Springs, surprisingly enough. He had the top success rate in the entire NFL last season.
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I remember when Hall single handedly lost a game for the Falcons last year because of his dumb penalties but Falcon fans still defended him. Honestly I can't blame them. When a team is that bad you have to put a player up on a pedestal, even when he's not that great
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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As was Shaun Springs, surprisingly enough. He had the top success rate in the entire NFL last season.
Which goes to show why those stats don't mean much. There isn't a coach in the league who would rather have Springs than Harris.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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Which goes to show why those stats don't mean much. There isn't a coach in the league who would rather have Springs than Harris.
I love how your argument has no basis in reality or any offered support at all. Good job.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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You guys are right. Al Harris is the worst cornerback in the league.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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well you've provided so many wonderful arguments to the contrary. why don't you try actually, you know, NOT using hyperbole and hearsay everytime you're presented with something you disagree with.
How am I supposed to prove that Harris is better than a guy like Springs? Seriously, I have no clue how to go about doing that. I have watched both play and they're not in the same league.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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How am I supposed to prove that Harris is better than a guy like Springs? Seriously, I have no clue how to go about doing that. I have watched both play and they're not in the same league.
Its hard to when you have no evidence to support it.

From watching both say I'd have to say Springs is better Harris.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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i don't recall asking you to prove it. but "i watched and he's just better" is not an argument. "i watched and al harris was much better at x. you can see shawn springs fail to do this in play Y."

sort of the way duckseason argued that hall was actually responsible for more than one touchdown.
I'm supposed to recall specific plays from last season?

Really, I suppose I shouldn't care if people think Harris is the worst starting CB in the league. I don't think it's worth my time arguing something so idiotic. It's like people that argued Larry Johnson was a better RB than Tomlinson a few years ago due to stats.
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Old 09-14-2008, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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I remember when Hall single handedly lost a game for the Falcons last year because of his dumb penalties but Falcon fans still defended him. Honestly I can't blame them. When a team is that bad you have to put a player up on a pedestal, even when he's not that great


Do you also remember him shutting down Steve Smith to the tune of 1 catch for 10 yards which is the only reason we were in the game in the first place? Funny how that always gets lost in the shuffle.
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Old 09-14-2008, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Contrary to what many people think, the Panthers are more than one player. Look at their record so far this season for proof. It seems the Falcons were never a team though, judging from the fan defense force both Vick and Hall have
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