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Old 09-15-2008, 11:54 AM    (permalink
Sniper
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If you're going to compare DLs, though, you have to try to match players with similar responsibilities. Seeing as how Dallas really has two players who share the responsibilities of one DE and one LB between them, we should take the combined pass rushing prowess of Ware and Ellis and divide by 2 to get the final piece of the DL puzzle for Dallas. That tips the scales in favor of the Cowboys. I will acknowledge that this one is close, but seeing as how Dallas was VASTLY superior at getting pressure on the QB last year, I'll have to take them for now.
Ware can count as a DE or an LB. Take one.

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So, all told, Dallas WRs posted over 200 more yards and a whopping ELEVEN TDs on less completions and FAR less attempts (I don't have the Scientific Football data here for attempts, but I am positive that Philly's WR got substantially more attempts thrown their way than Dallas' did). And all of this is without including Dallas TOP PASSING WEAPON (in terms of attempts), Jason Witten, who is--I assume--being excluded from this argument. Otherwise the debate would go from "patently ridiculous" to "farce" in the blink of an eye.
Which would be a great argument if I had said Philadelphia had a better WR core, which I didn't. All I said was that Baskett and Brown were superior to a guy who basically hasn't done anything and a guy who hadn't caught a pass until this year.


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However, all of this also neglects the most important point. STATS ALONE AREN'T THE MEASURE OF QUALITY OR FUTURE PRODUCTION. That's why its not fair to try and compare two guys (Hurd and Austin) who got very little opportunity, with two guys who got tons of it (and I really like how you try to slip Brown's production as a co-#1--or at least #2--in as proof for him being the better player over a guy who was getting maybe 15 offensive plays a game; good form there) like Brown and Baskett did. Again, a team with Owens and Witten--two of the best to ever play their position--is going to get them the ball at the expense of other lesser players. Throw in Crayton--who was already gobbling up much of the leftovers--and there is next to nothing left for Hurd, let alone Austin.
But how can Austin be better than anyone if he has zero career numbers? I suppose we could say that I am a superior wideout to Reggie Brown, since coming into this year Austin and I both had identical receiving numbers.

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Much of my opinions here are based upon simple observation. I have watched all players involved a ton. Brown looks like a solid option who will stick in the league, but those who hoped he would become a go-to guy for McNabb have to be disappointed. Baskett is barely in the league at this point. While Hurd is a good player who has a tireless work ethic and has improved consistently since coming into the league. Again, Austin is loaded with potential, and I think he has come far enough to where he will begin showing it this year.
Potential doesn't mean **** unless you're putting up production to back it up.

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*Shrug* I don't really care to get into an argument about 3rd and 4th options here, though. My point was simply that its not a no-contest here. I won't be mortally offended at someone claiming the Eagles 3rd and 4th being better than ours, but I will laugh at anyone saying that its a large gap. Let alone it being enough to account for the MAAAAASSSSIIIIIVVVVVEEEEE difference between TO/Crayton and Curtis/Jackson.
Again, I didn't say Philly had a better WR corps

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So now we measure a player by how he plays against one team? Orly? So if I was talking to a St. Louis fan I could contend that Patrick Crayton is one of the best WRs in the league, based upon his 7/180/2 performance last year? That's fresh.
No, we should measure how they do against every team. So Lito has been better on and off the field compared to Pacman against everyone. And you should be scared of Lito considering you're a Cowboys fan. The man has come through time and again for the Eagles against the Cowboys. Lito was healthy for one game last year, @ Dallas. How'd you guys do?

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The bottom line is that Lito gets burned a ton. He's been good at times in his career, but he spends more time injured, complaining, or getting burned than he does playing good football. Last season he wasn't even playing like an NFL starter. So, yes, I would rather have a penitent and motivated Adam Jones--who has never had any injury issues and was borderline dominant in his last full season with Tennessee--than an overrated, injury-prone, and ego-inflated piece of toast. Call me funny.
Except there's that whole thing where before last 8year, he wasn't getting burned a ton. He didn't complain until this year. Last season, when he was nicked up all year, he didn't play like a starter? Oh the horrors! How did Jones do last year? Oh, whoops.

Lito is not overrated or ego-inflated. He's a damn good corner who deserves to get paid. Whether it will be Philly or not, I don't know.

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As for Newman vs. Samuel...I think you guys are going to rue the day you gave him that contract. He gets beat enough to make him JAG unless he is making big plays back the other way. If those dry up, you can look forward to plenty of CUT ASANTE threads on your home board, trust me. This will just take time, so we'll wait. But even then, there is no arguing that Asante has been in Newman's league coverage-wise. The Ints are the only thing keeping it remotely close.
Trying to talk to you is like trying to talk to a brick wall.

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After that, Dallas has a 4th and 5th CB that could each start for a dozen teams in the league, and would instantly become the best nickel CBs on all but 3 or 4 teams in the league. Of course you don't realize this, but its the truth all the same. It will come to your attention eventually.
Sweet Jesus your homerism is astounding. Orlando Scandrick plays one game and all of a sudden he's amazing.

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No, Dawkins wasn't "hurt", he started to break down. There's a difference. And the year before he DID NOT play at a PB level. The simple proof of that is the fact that he didn't make it. With his name recognition and status in the league, he certainly would have made it had he played up to it. Not to mention he just didn't. I watched, and he didn't.
You're right, it's not like he missed TC with a bunch of issues and was nicked up all year. You know everything. The year before, Dawkins had 98 tackles, a sack, four picks, five forced fumbles and 13 PD. Right, not a Pro Bowler.
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Old 09-15-2008, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
.



Ware can count as a DE or an LB. Take one.



Which would be a great argument if I had said Philadelphia had a better WR core, which I didn't. All I said was that Baskett and Brown were superior to a guy who basically hasn't done anything and a guy who hadn't caught a pass until this year.




But how can Austin be better than anyone if he has zero career numbers? I suppose we could say that I am a superior wideout to Reggie Brown, since coming into this year Austin and I both had identical receiving numbers.



Potential doesn't mean **** unless you're putting up production to back it up.



Again, I didn't say Philly had a better WR corps



No, we should measure how they do against every team. So Lito has been better on and off the field compared to Pacman against everyone. And you should be scared of Lito considering you're a Cowboys fan. The man has come through time and again for the Eagles against the Cowboys. Lito was healthy for one game last year, @ Dallas. How'd you guys do?



Except there's that whole thing where before last 8year, he wasn't getting burned a ton. He didn't complain until this year. Last season, when he was nicked up all year, he didn't play like a starter? Oh the horrors! How did Jones do last year? Oh, whoops.

Lito is not overrated or ego-inflated. He's a damn good corner who deserves to get paid. Whether it will be Philly or not, I don't know.



Trying to talk to you is like trying to talk to a brick wall.



Sweet Jesus your homerism is astounding. Orlando Scandrick plays one game and all of a sudden he's amazing.



You're right, it's not like he missed TC with a bunch of issues and was nicked up all year. You know everything. The year before, Dawkins had 98 tackles, a sack, four picks, five forced fumbles and 13 PD. Right, not a Pro Bowler.
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Old 09-15-2008, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Sniper, do you need a hug?
No, I just hate Cowboys homerism. I also hate my girlfriend's computer dying on the weekend, Michigan fumbling seven times, losing four of them and throwing two picks, Morgan Trent, Notre Dame, the Cowboys, Tony Romo, Jessica Simpson, Al-Qaeda, broccoli, stupid people, not sleeping much and the Cowboys...again.

I do enjoy long walks on the beach though.
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Old 09-15-2008, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
No, I just hate Cowboys homerism. I also hate my girlfriend's computer dying on the weekend, Michigan fumbling seven times, losing four of them and throwing two picks, Morgan Trent, Notre Dame, the Cowboys, Tony Romo, Jessica Simpson, Al-Qaeda, broccoli, stupid people, not sleeping much and the Cowboys...again.

I do enjoy long walks on the beach though.
How about getting caught in the rain? haha.
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Old 09-15-2008, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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How about getting caught in the rain? haha.
Love getting caught in the rain.
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Old 09-15-2008, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Love getting caught in the rain.
I'm a Taurus;)

On a serious note, I want to be inside a hurricane, I really like extreme weather and things like that.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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I'm still waiting for an Eagles fan on the Homer bets thread.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Take that however you want. I am done arguing this game.
I don't want to argue with your analysis (props to you for put it all together) but there are some mistakes:

1) I guess only Thomas can be credited as being not good as he used to be. Since Ware and James are in their prime and Ellis hasn't lost a step (he probably played his best season last year). You also forgot Kevin Burnett who is the guy who is our cover LB. Screw Bradie James he's not gonna play on passing downs. Burnett will.

2) Canty will not be lined up against Thomas. He's responsable of the gap between the LT and the LG.

3) Ellis is not "capable of reaching the QB". Ellis is a very very good pass rusher. He might be not that good defending the run but he's still a great pass rusher, and last season showed it. Considering he will be one on one most of the time (or do you prefer to leave Ware one on one?) Eagles should be concerned about him. Also you talk about the Cowboys LBs as they lost a step. What about John Runyan? Don't act like he's what he used to be.
Also, Spencer might play and, if it's the case, on passing downs Ellis will play as a DE with Spencer as a LB behind him. Facing Ellis and Spencer on the same side is a bad thing for an OL.

4) Even if you think that Hamlin is better-suited as SS he's a very good centerfield.

5) Nope, Pacman is not the only one who has a chance to keep with Jackson. Try Terence Newman who is still the fastest CB on our team.

6) Being without our LG is not a big deal. Kosier is just average, and he's not a very good run blocker. Procter is also average, but there's not a big difference between him and Kosier. So missing our starting LG is not a big deal. Missing Davis would be.

7) Cole and Patterson didn't have 100 tackles last year. Patterson had 66 and Cole 60+
Also you forgot to mention the fact that since Bigg Davis joined Dallas he has been able to move DL with ease. Also, Flozell Adams dominated Cole most of the game. Cole could beat him as a passrusher (even if Flo last year was able to keep in check even Umenyiora) but Flo has the big advantage in the running game. Maybe Cole will play better this year but you don't have any prove to present it as a fact. The fact is that Flozell Adams and the entire Dallas OL played very good last year against the same Eagles DL. The Cowboys OL faced some premier pass rushers last year and was able to shut most of them down. The only time they got beat was in the second half of the playoff games against the Giants.

8) Again, don't forget about Crayton. He might have a big mouth but he knows how to take advantage of single coverage.
Also, "our other threat at TE"? Sorry, could you please tell me who is your primary threat at TE? You don't have to worry about who are our other threats at TE, you have to worry about Jason Witten, who killed you last year.

Everyone has his opinion about this game, I respect yours. But you presented some opinions as facts.
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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I don't want to argue with your analysis (props to you for put it all together) but there are some mistakes:

1) I guess only Thomas can be credited as being not good as he used to be. Since Ware and James are in their prime and Ellis hasn't lost a step (he probably played his best season last year). You also forgot Kevin Burnett who is the guy who is our cover LB. Screw Bradie James he's not gonna play on passing downs. Burnett will.

2) Canty will not be lined up against Thomas. He's responsable of the gap between the LT and the LG.

3) Ellis is not "capable of reaching the QB". Ellis is a very very good pass rusher. He might be not that good defending the run but he's still a great pass rusher, and last season showed it. Considering he will be one on one most of the time (or do you prefer to leave Ware one on one?) Eagles should be concerned about him. Also you talk about the Cowboys LBs as they lost a step. What about John Runyan? Don't act like he's what he used to be.
Also, Spencer might play and, if it's the case, on passing downs Ellis will play as a DE with Spencer as a LB behind him. Facing Ellis and Spencer on the same side is a bad thing for an OL.

4) Even if you think that Hamlin is better-suited as SS he's a very good centerfield.

5) Nope, Pacman is not the only one who has a chance to keep with Jackson. Try Terence Newman who is still the fastest CB on our team.

6) Being without our LG is not a big deal. Kosier is just average, and he's not a very good run blocker. Procter is also average, but there's not a big difference between him and Kosier. So missing our starting LG is not a big deal. Missing Davis would be.

7) Cole and Patterson didn't have 100 tackles last year. Patterson had 66 and Cole 60+
Also you forgot to mention the fact that since Bigg Davis joined Dallas he has been able to move DL with ease. Also, Flozell Adams dominated Cole most of the game. Cole could beat him as a passrusher (even if Flo last year was able to keep in check even Umenyiora) but Flo has the big advantage in the running game. Maybe Cole will play better this year but you don't have any prove to present it as a fact. The fact is that Flozell Adams and the entire Dallas OL played very good last year against the same Eagles DL. The Cowboys OL faced some premier pass rushers last year and was able to shut most of them down. The only time they got beat was in the second half of the playoff games against the Giants.

8) Again, don't forget about Crayton. He might have a big mouth but he knows how to take advantage of single coverage.
Also, "our other threat at TE"? Sorry, could you please tell me who is your primary threat at TE? You don't have to worry about who are our other threats at TE, you have to worry about Jason Witten, who killed you last year.

Everyone has his opinion about this game, I respect yours. But you presented some opinions as facts.
First off, thanks for not overreacting and flipping our like a rabid animal.

1. Not to sound like an *** but with Westbrook and the rest of the collective speed on our offense, it doesn't matter who your coverage LBs are, they will not match up well man to man. That being said, the Cowboys do play a good majority of zone coverage, predominantly zone coverage actually. Perhaps Newman and Jones (once he gets back into the swing of thigns) will help make man coverage more prevalent, but because of the age (and as usually occompanies with it) and slowness of the LBs, and Roy in coverage, the Cowboys tend to use zone coverage a lot when they can't get their coverage team on the field. Now I know a lot of the Cowboy fans say that Roy comes out in passing situations, and they are right, but he will need to see significant PT or the Eagles will be having a very successful day of rushing. Plus Roy won't always be able to come out because we do tend to pass frequently (understatement of the Reid era) and they can't have him out too much, or like I said before, we will run on you guys with some success.

2. I could have used better verbage there. What I should have said is that Thomas will have Canty as his responsibility a good majority of the time. I'm not sure if I mentioned it or not, (I didn't, I only said most alignments) but Herremans will help out with him in certain situations. In most cases though, Thomas will have to handle Canty.

3. I said Ellis is capable of reaching the passer. I had him after Ware because Ware is better at it, as you know. I didn't say Ellis can't. But he just isn't as good as it as Ware. But Ware is one of the best at reaching the QB. I guess I could have made that more clear, but you could have read over it better, haha.

4. He is, and I never said he was bad. I will not say that Hamlin is bad at FS. As evidenced by a worthy Pro-Bowl nomination last year. But you and I both know he would be playing SS if it weren't for Roy. He did get beat a few times last year, (and I know all DBs do) but some of those were plays that he should have been able to handle. I have heard from a lot of people that if Roy Williams gets cut after the end of the season, Hamlins will take over, where the team feels they could get better production out of him and put Pat Watkins in at FS. I don't know how that would work out, as Watkins is also listed as a SS. I know though that he does sub in for Roy on passing situations, so they must feel safer with him in coverage than Roy.

5. This whole article in the original post is about this weeks matchup, and I did that write-up after I found out Newman is unlikely to play. It is looking like he may not play, and even if he does, he will not be 100%. DeSean is blazing fast though with his sub 4.3 speed, and plays fast as well. It will be hard for any CB to handle him by themself.

6. I actually just found out that Procter may not be playing because the Cowboys weren't happy with how he played last week, especially in the run game. And I heard that Pat McQuistan or Montrae Holland (I don't remember wh they said)may be starting instead of Procter.

7. For the most part the Cowboys' O-line did play well, and did dominate our d-line in the first game. But in the second game we had 4 sacks on Romo (It may have been more, I don't remember) and that caused him to hurry up a bit, which is really what was able to at least slow down your offense last year. You are right, we don't know for sure which one will show up.

8. Beleive me, I am not forgetting about Crayton. I know he has the potential to put up a 100+ yard performance at any time. But he is also very inconsistent, as stated before in this thread. I don't know for sure, but the Eagles did a good job of shutting him down last year in his #2 role both games. He had very little production to speak of. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he had very little impact on either game. If it seemed like I was dodging the Witten subject, my apologies, becuae I assumed everyone knew what he brought to the table. We all know he is a great TE (#1 in the NFL in my book) and is a constant threat. I was just bringing up another possible threat from the position in Martellus Bennett, who I think could end up being a very good NFL TE in time.

Sorry if it seemed as though I was trying to pass my opinions off as fact. I was trying to add what I could to the conversation. I really wasn't trying to make it seem that way. give me some examples and I'll either give you my explanation, or tell you it was my opinion. I really did try to do this as my opinion, but I wanted to back my opinion up with fact, and if you think any of those were scewed, let me know, and I will elaborate.
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough.. As I've said before you're entitled to your opinions so i'm not arguing with you abou them. I just wanted to clear some points..
Anyway, just a couple more things...

I don't think there's a LB who can cover one on one Westbrook, I was just statin that you don't have to consider the James-Thomas/Westbrook-Booker matchup. You have to consider a mix of zone and man with also Henry playing the Rover position and Burnett as the only LB in the nickel-dime.
Regarding Newman he said early this week that he's gonna play and I thought you were assuming that. Wade has been very Bellichick-esque with his injury reports since he joined Dallas so I think there's a good chance Newman plays tonight.
Regarding Procter, well, Holland was brought in to be Kosier replacement but he's getting comfortable with the playbook. As soon as he gest the playbook he will start and he could be an upgrade over Kosier who get push around waaay too much. This is why I think Kosier injury is not a big deal.
Last but not least, I think that last year loss against the Eagles was 60% Romo fault. He just played bad that game and he was sacked a lot because he was holding the ball too long not because poor-play by the OL.
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough.. As I've said before you're entitled to your opinions so i'm not arguing with you abou them. I just wanted to clear some points..
Anyway, just a couple more things...

I don't think there's a LB who can cover one on one Westbrook, I was just statin that you don't have to consider the James-Thomas/Westbrook-Booker matchup. You have to consider a mix of zone and man with also Henry playing the Rover position and Burnett as the only LB in the nickel-dime.
Regarding Newman he said early this week that he's gonna play and I thought you were assuming that. Wade has been very Bellichick-esque with his injury reports since he joined Dallas so I think there's a good chance Newman plays tonight.
Regarding Procter, well, Holland was brought in to be Kosier replacement but he's getting comfortable with the playbook. As soon as he gest the playbook he will start and he could be an upgrade over Kosier who get push around waaay too much. This is why I think Kosier injury is not a big deal.
Last but not least, I think that last year loss against the Eagles was 60% Romo fault. He just played bad that game and he was sacked a lot because he was holding the ball too long not because poor-play by the OL.
Nice to havea civil disagreement with someone.

I was unaware of that formation, that will defintiely help the Cowboys in thier coverage with some of our personnel.

I had heard that Newman said he was going to play as well. That was on Monday, I think. May have been Tuesday. Either way, I saw a link to the Cowboys team site that said Newman probably won't play (that was later on in the week, Friday maybe). If he does though he will be tested early. AR likes to test secondaries early as it is, and if your best DB is injured, that will only encourage him to test it even more.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Sorry I wasn't here to defned myself this weekend. Have crap I needed to do and wanted to play/watch some football. I think this will make up for my absence.

McNabb vs Dallas' coverage.

Advantage: McNabb. One of the top QBs in the NFL against a secondary that is succeptible to the pass. Its best player in Terence Newman is hurt and Travis henry usually underperforms in Eagles games. Pacman is a threat when he is on the field, but with Newman playing, his role will be decreased from last week, though we will se plenty of him. Hamlin is not in his natural position because of Roy Williams' dificulties with coverage, and as a result, both of those are positions Donovan and the Eagles receivers will be able to exploit. Dallas has a few LBs who are solid in coverage, but when you consider who they will be lined up against, (Westbrook, Booker, Jackson, on occasion) there are mismatches that will be capable of being exploited.

Eagles run game vs Dallas' front 7.

Advantage: Eagles. With one of the best RBs in the league and an O-line that is dominant against a solid front seven, this is a close matchup, but Philly has s slight edge. Dallas' LBs (most notably Zach Thomas) are not as good as they once were, though with the rest of their guys, such as Ware, this is still a solid group. Ware is known mostly for his pass rush, but like Thomas, is sokid against the run as well. Spears is a solid DE against the run, and Greg Ellis is a good OLB for the Cowboys, but what it comes down to are the matchups inside the matchups. Chris Canty will be lined up on Tra Thomas in most alignments, and this is a pretty even matchup. Jay Ratlif will be lined up on Jamaal Jackson, and will occasionally get help from either Herremans or Andrews. Jackson has the slight advantage in that head to head. And Spears will be up against Runyan. That is a good matchup as well, but favors Runyan, just a little bit. Dpending on how Jackson can handle Ratliff, we will se Andrews going out to the second level when he won't have someone lined up in front of him, though if Ratliff will be lined up on him or Herremans, Jackson will have the responsibiltiy of going out and blocking the LBs. Don't expect a huge day running the ball, but the Eagles have a slight advantage here.

Eagles pass protection vs Dallas' pass rush.

Advantage: Draw. Also a very close matchup, as Ware is a great pass rusher and Ellis is also capable of reachign the QB. The 3-4 algnment makes it more difficult to diagnose where pressure may be comign from, and may result in some miscommunication or misdiagnosis. Depending on the play, Thomas will have to slide out and pick up Ware on the blitz, while Herremans will take on Canty. Ware against thomas is a matchup that favors Dallas. I some cases, Herremans may be picking up an iside blizer or helping Jackson. Same goes for Andrews, he will help Jackson or Runyan or help pick up blitzers. Will also slide out onto Spears if Runyan has responsibilites for an outside blitzer. To be honest, I should probably put this as a draw. To those that read the topic before I edited it, my apologies, but the more I look at it the more even it seems.

Eagles receivers vs Dallas' coverage.

Advantage: Dallas. On paper, it isn't even close. They have thre Pro-Bowlers in that secondary and a great trio of CB. But as we all know, the game isn't played on paper. Roy hasn't deserved a Pro-Bowl for years, and Hamlin is playing out of his comfort zone (albeit not by very much) in FS, Hamlin should be a SS. Newman is a top 10 Cb in the NFL and Henry is a solid 2nd CB. Pacman is a young, talented CB who is better than many of us give him credit for. But once he gets the ball in his hands, he is dangerous, he brigns the return potential that neither Newman or Henry posess. But when you consider how they match up agianst the Eagles and the style we play, it makes the matchup closer than how it looks on paper. DeSean is young and talented and the only omember of Dallas' secondary who has a chance of keeping with him is Pacman. But Dallas, like the Eagles, plays a ton of zone coverage, especailly when Williams is in, mostly to mask his lack of coverage abilties. We have a bunch of WRs who are good at finding holes in zones. With the speded of Jackson, and with what the rest of our other WRs bring to the table agianst the Cowboys, our WRs will have the opportunity to take advantage of the Cowboys defenders' weaknesses.

Tony Romo vs Eagles' coverage

Advantage: Draw. As much as most Eagle fans hate to admit it, Tony Romo is a very good NFL QB. Fortunately for us, we have a great coverage unit to combat it. He also has the capability to run when he feels he needs to, and I have a feeling he may be doing more running than he wants to this week. For the most part, Romo is a headsy QB, and takes what he deems as appropriate risks. Sometimes they come back to bite him, and sometimes they result in a great play for Dallas. I have a feeling we will see examples of both of those situations in this game. Our LBs are good in coverage and will be able to hold back (or at least diminish a bit) the receiving impact Barber could have. Lito will have TO and though Lito took advantage of Owens last year, this is a balnced matchup. Lito won't have tTO 100% of the time either though, so you have to keep that in kind. Asante and Sheldon will probably be spending a lot of time over Crayton and Witten.

Dallas run game vs Eagles' front 7

Advantage: Draw. This is a top 6 run defense from last year that is only getting betterm but dallas has a great RB in Barber and both Jones and Choice look to be good options. Dallas has one of the best (and biggest) O-lines in the league, which really helps their running efforts. But they are without their starting LG. Bunkley is very strong at the point of attack, and is able to hog up blockers like it is nobodies business. Cole is a balnced RDE despite hsi sack numbers, and that really shows how good of an overall player he really is. Patterson had over 100 tackles last year (along with Cole) and for a DT that is very impressive. Parker is a balnced DE and though he may not have a huge game, if he can do what he is supposed to, that will help the defense immesely. Plus we have Gocong and Bradley and Gaither wh are very solid against the run. Barber and the other RBs for Dallas may not have the type of success they are used to. Don't expect Dallas to get less than 40 yards rushing like we did to the Rams though.

Dallas' pass protection vs Eagles' pass rush

Advantage: Eagles.Though Dallas has a huge O-line that is regarded as one of the best, it can be exploited, and we have done it. (last year) Flozell Adams is at a disadvantage with Trent Cole, though both play very well against eachother. These two could have a game like Strahan and Runyan would have. One would beat the other, and then the next play, the other one would make a fool out of him. Andre Gurode is a good Center in the NFL, and Dallas is going to need him, especially with the injury to Kosier, he is going to need to help the LG Corey Proctor. Corey Proctor looks to fill the spot again this week and both Patterson and Bunkley will be able to take advantage of him in the pass and run games. Leonard Davis is is hefty guy at RG, but he doesn't have the quickness or lateral movement like Shawn Andrews. He is a leak in the dam for Dallas pass protection. Columbo and Parker will see a lot fo eachother, and this could be a good even matchup. I think what puts the Eagles over top (just barely) is the scheming by Johnson. I know Dallas has a coach trying to counteract the schemes JJ will brign out, but he just has too many weapons to use in our LBs and guys like Dawk, Q, and Brown. Adn what makes it easier is our LBs are great in coverage, so it will be difficult for Dallas to know where the pressure is coming from. We may even see some uncommon alignments in our defense.

Dallas' receivers vs Eagles' coverage

Advantage: Eagles. Though the Cowboys have two very big threats in TO and Witten, and another threat in Barber, what else do they really have? I'll tell you...Patrick Crayton, Sam Hurd and Isaiah Stanbeck are their only other WRs. Miles Austin is out with an injury. Martellus Bennett, a rookie, is their only other threat at TE. Even so, he is a few years away from fulfilling potential and really making an impact. Felix Jones is a threat as well, and Choice to an extent, but if you look at it, TO, Witten, and Barber are their only threats. (Crayton is a solid option) Now look at our secondary... Asante, Lito, Sheldon, and Dawk are all very good. Q is good and in some situations, Considine is out on the field and has been impressive so far. Bradley is great in coverage and so is Gaither. Reed is a solid contributor. We have four great players (to Dallas' 3 receiving threat) and 3 good options coverage guys (to Dallas' 1) But Dallas will have a solid day passing, they have just enough weapons and some options to work with that we will not shut them down either. Witten and TO (specifically Witten) will need to be at least slowed down, but Romo is a good enough Qb that he will find some of the other options. We match up man on man well, but will be in a lot of zone coverages. Witten is good at finding the holes in the zone, so the advantage that seems heavily in the Eagles favor really isn't as big as it seems.

I'm not going to go too in depth in coaching or special teams. We all know that Reid is more experienced, and more successful than Phillips. It will be fun to see the young "hot shot" offensive coordinator in Jason Garrett and our "wiley old veteran" in JJ battling along the sidelines. Both teams have returners who can make things happen, but Dallas has a slight edge in ST coverage.

Matchup synopsis.
PHI-4 (Donovan, PHI running game, pass rush, and pass coverage)
DAL-1 (pass coverage)
Draw (meanign too close to give clear advantage, could go either way)- 3 (Eagles pass rush vs Dallas' pass protection, Romo vs Eagles coverage, and Dallas Rushing attack vs Eagles' Front 7)

Now here is where we combine these things to get a better idea of how the game will pan out...Our defense is a threat to put pressure on Romo, while our secondary is able to cover well. Dallas may be running the ball more than we expect, especially considering Barber is a great RB, and both Jones and Choice are promising rookies, especially Jones. Now Dallas' defense and our offense are very close, and if you combine the two groups, our offense vs their defense is a very equal matchup. Expect a balanced attack (in AR standards) on offense. The game will come down to line play, penalties, special teams, and luck. This will be a very close NFC East matchup, and you, just liek I are expecting a big win.

Take that however you want. I am done arguing this game.
So.....let's see if I have this straight....you are basically saying that the Eagles>>Cowboys?


Because that's what that post says. I like how you couch your homerism in a ostentatiously objective analysis. Stopped reading when you said that the Eagles pass rush had the advantage against our OL, so don't know what your reasonings were after that. Some things I found interesting/funny:


- The whole Cole vs. Flozell thing. Just so you know, Adams made Cole his ***** last year. In that second game, we had some problems with interior blitzes and such, but Cole was a complete non factor. If you dispute this, don't take my word for it, try reading Dr. Z's (from SI) analysis on why Flozell Adams was on his All-Pro team from last season, he specifically mentions Adams shutting Cole (whom he had high praise for as well, iirc) down, or try KC Joyner who also mentions the whipping Flo laid on him. Or you could just actually, you know, go back and watch the games. This part was funny.


- Calling your OL "dominant" when they were--at best--up and down last year. Thomas is over the hill and allowed 6 sacks last year despite missing a few games due to injury. Herremans is barely above average, if that. Runyan has seen his best days, and while he's still good, is not on the same level he was 3 or 4 years ago. Andrews is a monster, sure, but after the tumultuous offseason he had, we'll see if he can maintain his previous level of play. That leaves Jackson, who is still developing, but certainly nowhere near Pro Bowl caliber from what he's shown to this point. So....with two aging/declining tackles, one young stud with mental issues who may or may not be dominant like before, and two other youngish guys who haven't done much to distinguish themselves, you have a "dominant" OL, but ours--which boasts 3 Pro Bowlers who are all dominant run blockers and (when fully healthy) has at least an above average player at every slot--is just "one of the best". This is the perfect example of fan-speak.


- Not sure what you meant by the 100 tackle thing for Cole and Patterson. It sounded like you were saying that each had over 100 for last season, though it left enough wiggle room to possibly mean that they got 100 combined. Either way, it wasn't true. Patterson had 50 tackles (solo) and Cole had 49. Combined that is 99, heh. The Patterson number is impressive, though. If I'm not mistaken, he led all DTs in tackles.

- Saying that Lito "took advantage" of TO last year.....:D. News flash: TO had a massive game against you in the Linc last year, much of which was at the expense of Lito Sheppard. 10 catches for 174 yards and a TD say that this statement is ludicrous. In the second game, TO got open with regularity but Romo was having the worst day of his career, and over threw him on a wide open long TD in the second quarter where TO had two steps on his man.


- Overall, you guys are talking like we played each other to a stalemate last season. Let's get something on the record. We blew your asses out at your place with your full complement of players, 38-17, and it wasn't even that close. You guys won by 4 points on a day when Romo hurt his throwing hand and missed on several big plays that would have changed the game. With the full body of work from the 8 quarters last year, we were clearly the better team, and we still are today. Tonight, you'll find out the hard way.
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Well, one thing is for sure, someone is gonna have a huge crow sandwich by the end of tonight.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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OK man I get it. My words are garbage and yours are gold. But I'm tired of this "you'll see" or "just wait" the fact is you have no proof to back it up, all the while telling everybody else they have none as well. I find it hilarious that htis whole thing got started because I said that it isn't an absolutely crazy idea to sya that our WR group is better, and you inerpreted as me saying that our WRs are better. Thats OK man we'll play the game tonight and you'll see what happens, and just wait until yo play in Philly, haha.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Well, one thing is for sure, someone is gonna have a huge crow sandwich by the end of tonight.
For real!
Damn I hate Monday Night games, they end around 5.30 AM so I have just a couple of hours to sleep.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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srsly, did Metsox really say the Cowboys and Cowboy fans aren't arrogant? This isn't a shot at them, but holy ****, how can you say that?

It could be a close game, but Philly has to eat the clock and give it to Westbrook, who'll be quite effective on screens, short passes etc.

AND Jim Johnson needs to bring up some crazy ass blitzes to get to Romo. Th Cowboys are more talented, no doubt, but they're 2 biggest assests and hopes for this game are Westy and JJ
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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For real!
Damn I hate Monday Night games, they end around 5.30 AM so I have just a couple of hours to sleep.
how do you watch the games from Italy? Satellite?
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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The Cowboys have one of the top 3 or 4 WR corps in the NFL.
it's statements like these that just make me scratch my head and wonder why
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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srsly, did Metsox really say the Cowboys and Cowboy fans aren't arrogant? This isn't a shot at them, but holy ****, how can you say that?

It could be a close game, but Philly has to eat the clock and give it to Westbrook, who'll be quite effective on screens, short passes etc.

AND Jim Johnson needs to bring up some crazy ass blitzes to get to Romo. Th Cowboys are more talented, no doubt, but they're 2 biggest assests and hopes for this game are Westy and JJ
i wouldn't say that the Cowboys definitely have the more "talented" team as they would like everyone to believe. we'll find out soon enough though.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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If the cowboys lose you know they'll just make up excuses, they would never admit that the eagles are the better team.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Go_Eagles77 View Post
If the cowboys lose you know they'll just make up excuses, they would never admit that the eagles are the better team.
you're telling this to a Giants fan? lmao. hell, i heard it all of last year in the playoffs and even still to this day.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:32 PM    (permalink
scottyboy
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i wouldn't say that the Cowboys definitely have the more "talented" team as they would like everyone to believe. we'll find out soon enough though.
I feel they're one of the most talented teams on paper, I honestly do. But that doesn't mean jack **** as we've all come to know! :D

I should not have used "definately" but I believe they do.

Does that mean I think they'll win? not exactly.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:32 PM    (permalink
Go_Eagles77
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you're telling this to a Giants fan? lmao. hell, i heard it all of last year in the playoffs and even still to this day.
Yep, that's why I said you know, lol.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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srsly, did Metsox really say the Cowboys and Cowboy fans aren't arrogant? This isn't a shot at them, but holy ****, how can you say that?
BBD said that the team is arrogant to the point where it's unbearable. I asked how in the heck he got to that conclusion. I'd love some arrogant quotes from Cowboys players.

Edit - Players, not fans. Every team has their fair share of ridiculous fans, yours included, so don't pretend like having some people say their team is the best in the league, with a straight face, is ridiculous.
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Old 09-15-2008, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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I might sound biased in giving the Eagles more edges than most other fans would, but I think whats being lost in this discussion isn't how talented Dallas is, but moreso how Philly's talent doesn't get enough respect. Philly in my eyes is just as talented as Dallas is. Yet most are saying that Dallas is easily more talented, and I simply do not agree with that at all.
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