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Old 09-23-2008, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Pierre Thomas isn't exactly a between the tackles guy himself...

anyway, im tired of the whole Reggie Bush debate.
Then what is he?
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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I still feel like Bush can be in a better fit in an offense, namely one with some zone-blocking. I should give that touchdown run another look, but from what I recall they might have been using some ZB there in the offensive line on that play. Which would be good to see, if Payton can use Bush better.

Hopefully he can get some shotgun draws, maybe even the strange stretch draw the Colts run at times and is very successful (I should break that down because I'm not sure why it's so successful as it is). Bush has serious speed and acceleration at his disposal, that's why I am fine with him bouncing some runs outside because he can beat so many players there.

But he and all the other Saints backs need to have holes to run through, as Saints-Tigers touched on. Thomas isn't between the tackles, BBD? Come on and just admit it, the Saints' run-blocking (from the OL) leaves too much to be desired.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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I hope Reggie Bush doesn't re-sign in New Orleans and comes to Philly. Andy Reid's offense would make him un ******* believable.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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I hope Reggie Bush doesn't re-sign in New Orleans and comes to Philly. Andy Reid's offense would make him un ******* believable.
I'm sure Jason Garrett would be able to utilize him properly as well ;)
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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I'm sure Jason Garrett would be able to utilize him properly as well ;)
Indeed. Any team with a decent OL who values the RB as a pass catcher could make him unreal.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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I'm sure Jason Garrett would be able to utilize him properly as well ;)
O yeah.. Well I am sure Gilbride... eh never mind, I don't think he would..
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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I understand where yall are coming from with LT's situation but im just too stubborn to think about sproles replacing him or him passing the torch to Rivers, when people talk about the chargers people will always think Tomlinson and as long as hes on the team it will always be his team for me.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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O yeah.. Well I am sure Gilbride... eh never mind, I don't think he would..
Hopefully Gilbride gets fired or moves on after this season, and if he doesn't I'm going to plant kiddy porn in his office and then call 5 0 on his ass.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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Hopefully Gilbride gets fired or moves on after this season, and if he doesn't I'm going to plant kiddy porn in his office and then call 5 0 on his ass.
He is not going anywhere, winning a superbowl cemented him with the fate of everyone in this staff. No way we'd make ELi and the rest of the offense learn a different system too.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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He is not going anywhere, winning a superbowl cemented him with the fate of everyone in this staff. No way we'd make ELi and the rest of the offense learn a different system too.
Kiddy porn it is then, someone find scotty, he's got a really good collection.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Fire Rob Ryan!
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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I still feel like Bush can be in a better fit in an offense, namely one with some zone-blocking. I should give that touchdown run another look, but from what I recall they might have been using some ZB there in the offensive line on that play. Which would be good to see, if Payton can use Bush better.

Hopefully he can get some shotgun draws, maybe even the strange stretch draw the Colts run at times and is very successful (I should break that down because I'm not sure why it's so successful as it is). Bush has serious speed and acceleration at his disposal, that's why I am fine with him bouncing some runs outside because he can beat so many players there.

But he and all the other Saints backs need to have holes to run through, as Saints-Tigers touched on. Thomas isn't between the tackles, BBD? Come on and just admit it, the Saints' run-blocking (from the OL) leaves too much to be desired.

What running plays do the Saints use the most? Do you know what their bread and butter play is? I don't watch them as much.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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No need to plant it im sure he already has some by the way he looks at Eli all time, during games you see a twinkle in his eye as he watches Eli taking hikes from the center...This is a job for Chris Hanson...dammit cant find no pictures of him...so plant this...
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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What running plays do the Saints use the most? Do you know what their bread and butter play is? I don't watch them as much.
We run a lot of stuff just straight up the middle out of single back sets, but Nesbit, Goodwin, and especially Stinchcomb all get pushed around and our runners either run into a wall of defenders, or bounce outside. We also seem to only run on 1st and 10, or 3rd and 50.

There are a few tweaks we could make to jump start our run game, replacing Nesbit and Stinchcomb for Nicks and Strief would be a great start, and I think we could utilize Mike Karney a lot better, because if we can keep the first guy off of Reggie, and allow him to get into the second level, he can do a lot of damage.

I think there was a reason Sean Payton was passing game coordinator in Dallas.
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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We run a lot of stuff just straight up the middle out of single back sets, but Nesbit, Goodwin, and especially Stinchcomb all get pushed around and our runners either run into a wall of defenders, or bounce outside. We also seem to only run on 1st and 10, or 3rd and 50.

There are a few tweaks we could make to jump start our run game, replacing Nesbit and Stinchcomb for Nicks and Strief would be a great start, and I think we could utilize Mike Karney a lot better, because if we can keep the first guy off of Reggie, and allow him to get into the second level, he can do a lot of damage.

I think there was a reason Sean Payton was passing game coordinator in Dallas.


Well you can still run up the middle but it depends what the running concept it. Do you guys run ISO or Lead? Are you double teaming at the point of attack or drive blocking the guy in front of you? All this would easily explain what the heck is going on? For instance, I just completed my Rams breakdown against the Giants, and I saw we added two new concepts to our running game that worked very well. Again it all depends on what you guys run in terms of running plays.



Here is an example of the plays we added.


37 Power G







38 Power G with Derrick Ward


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Old 09-23-2008, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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one run.

how about the other billion times when he gets stuffed?
How about the Saints actually start to run block better?
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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I don't know why people keep bringing up Bush in regards to the Texans, about the only two bright spots on the team right now are Mario Williams and.... Steve Slaton who in his second NFL game goes for 116 yards and a TD on 18 carries against one of the top defenses in the league. Feel free to bash away at the rest of the team though, its been ugly.
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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I stated last year that the best move for the Chargers was to trade LT and attempt to resign Michael Turner. I didn't dare bring the thought up on the Chargers board and got blasted by almost everybody on this board. There is really only so many hits a running back can take (most RBs at least) and LT is very close to that number as it stands now.

Reggie Bush is an average NFL running back. I'm sure that the Texans are losing sleep over him every day now since he is scoring all of these TDs. Meanwhile, Mario Williams is argueably the best DE and defensive player in the league. Even if Reggie Bush was having an Adrian Peterson type impact for the Saints (and he is clearly not), the smart choice would have still been to take Mario. The Saints have totally redone there entire system to work around Reggie (probably at the Drew Brees and a few other players' expense), while the Texans having been using Mario to fill any holes they can find (playing him at DT, dropping him into coverage, etc.).

As valuable as an elite running back is, they are not near the value of a franchise QB, DE or LT. That's a fact.
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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I stated last year that the best move for the Chargers was to trade LT and attempt to resign Michael Turner. I didn't dare bring the thought up on the Chargers board and got blasted by almost everybody on this board. There is really only so many hits a running back can take (most RBs at least) and LT is very close to that number as it stands now.

Reggie Bush is an average NFL running back. I'm sure that the Texans are losing sleep over him every day now since he is scoring all of these TDs. Meanwhile, Mario Williams is argueably the best DE and defensive player in the league. Even if Reggie Bush was having an Adrian Peterson type impact for the Saints (and he is clearly not), the smart choice would have still been to take Mario. The Saints have totally redone there entire system to work around Reggie (probably at the Drew Brees and a few other players' expense), while the Texans having been using Mario to fill any holes they can find (playing him at DT, dropping him into coverage, etc.).

As valuable as an elite running back is, they are not near the value of a franchise QB, DE or LT. That's a fact.
That's bull, we don't even use his ability as a receiver downfield, he's a dump off guy, and he's definitely not used well as a runner.
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Yeah.... I don't think anything is being done at Drew Brees' expense in the Saints offense. Or wait, do you think he should be throwing for 600 yards a game?
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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The Saints have totally redone there entire system to work around Reggie (probably at the Drew Brees and a few other players' expense)..
*puts head in hands*

Ignorant people make me lawlz.
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
How about the Saints actually start to run block better?
Run blocking is surely a problem, i don't question that. but Reggie's lack of vision isn't helping much either. he has improved in that area, but still not where he needs it to be.


I can see the ZBS as stated previously potentially working, but is Reggie patient enough to thrive in that system? I don't know. You have to be committed to making that one cut and thats it. I don't think Reggie would be committed to that. If he is though, then yeah, i guess that can work.

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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
Then what is he?
To be honest, Im just not a fan of Thomas's. He's the look like Tarzan play like Jane type to me.
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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I always thought it was the opposite with Thomas, he plays a lot more powerfully than he looks. I've never been a huge fan of his like a lot of people here though, when he had that big game last year in a loss, during a meaningless game, everyone jumped on the bandwagon. I did like the playcalling for he and Stecker though, and we'd do fine if we went back to that.

I agree for the most part, I think Reggie has a lot of room to improve, but I think he's a fine runner right now, he'll take some lumps, but he's explosive enough to make up for them. I think blocking is the biggest issue though, and it's hard to get anything going as a running back.

Play calling isn't helping either right now, we give up on running the ball too much IMO. They say Reggie can't carry the ball 20 times a game, but that's when he looks best, when he's in the 17-20 range, and getting the ball as the D is wearing down. Too many times we see Reggie get 11 carries in the first half, and 3 or so in the second half.

I think he'll be fine, we just need to simplify things, and use what personnel we have. We have some real maulers sitting on the bench, and we have probably the best blocking FB in the game, and he's not being used enough as a lead blocker. I think the second half of the Denver game is a good example of how we should run the ball. I think Reggie was averaging like 2 yards per carry in the first half, and ended at just over 4, and a lot of it was due to the way we were running the ball...
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Michael Turner and John Abraham have been spectacular. Sam Baker has been very good. Jamaal Anderson is still terrible. Michael Boley hasn't been great like last year thus far. Matt Ryan has looked very good for a rookie minus the first half vs. the Bucs. Lawyer Milloy is still a very good in the box SS. Jonathan Babineaux is becoming a very nice UT. That's the word on the Falcons.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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Michael Turner and John Abraham have been spectacular. Sam Baker has been very good. Jamaal Anderson is still terrible. Michael Boley hasn't been great like last year thus far. Matt Ryan has looked very good for a rookie minus the first half vs. the Bucs. Lawyer Milloy is still a very good in the box SS. Jonathan Babineaux is becoming a very nice UT. That's the word on the Falcons.
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