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Old 10-08-2008, 04:23 PM    (permalink
BlindSite
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Default Refs not calling holds

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Just as the issuance of fines for helmet-to-helmet hits isnt doing anything to get players to quit making them, the NFLs decision to crack down on criticism of officials likely wont stop players from griping.
Especially when the player in question has a six-year, $72 million contract.
Colts defensive end Dwight Freeney, who apparently has taken a cue from G.M. Bill Polian, has openly complained about the lack of holding calls this year.


Ive actually had a ref tell me hes not going to call holding unless he thinks Im going to make the play, Freeney told the Indianapolis Star. I used to get holding calls. Now they dont call anything. . . . Its ridiculous. Against Jacksonville, there was a guy who grabbed me by my hips and pulled me back.


Colts defensive lineman Raheem Brock echoes the sentiment. I dont know what it is or why its like that, but the O-line definitely gets off on a lot of holding calls, Brock said. I complain so much. I put my hands up while hes holding me and still no call, usually.


The real question here is whether the NFL will fine players for criticism only, or whether theyll act only when (for example) James Harrison of the Steelers suggests that an official had money on the game.


But the league has made it clear that no criticism is permitted. So if Sean Payton of the Saints is going to be fined for criticism that doesnt call into question the integrity of officiating, Freeney (and possibly Brock) should be, too.


An argument also could be made for fining Ravens defensive end Terrell Suggs, who had this to say after being slapped with a questionable roughing the passer flag against the Titans on Sunday: If anybody can go back and show me something I did illegal, then I would be happy to oblige and say I messed up. But when you are nowhere near his head - we hit arms, we hit arms it just goes to show the referee has too much power in the game.
Seems like the league is being very tacit in their consent of poor refereeing.
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:25 PM    (permalink
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Wow, they're starting to approach NBA levels of crap if they fully stop all criticism of officials. I think suggesting they have money on the game is fine warranting, but talking like Freeney and Brock are is fine.
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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Still waiting for Ed Hochuli and his crew to turn in their resignation papers to the NFL League Office. They have NO business calling games.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Um. Everyone knows that no one will call most holds.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand why they give the referees the option of ignoring holding calls if the player being held can not make a play on the ball, yet they've taken their right to judge a force out on the sidelines. Either take that aspect of their job out, or leave it all in.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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Still waiting for Ed Hochuli and his crew to turn in their resignation papers to the NFL League Office. They have NO business calling games.
haha it's amazing what 3 bad calls can do after years upon years of respected reffing

btw, I'm sure the Saints loss has nothing to do with how awful they played for almost 45 minutes of the game, it's all Ed Hochuli's fault for missing a call!!!!
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:16 PM    (permalink
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haha it's amazing what 3 bad calls can do after years upon years of respected reffing

btw, I'm sure the Saints loss has nothing to do with how awful they played for almost 45 minutes of the game, it's all Ed Hochuli's fault for missing a call!!!!
Exactly, and I wouldn't call it three bad calls, more like just one major call. The others are not going to make people start looking at every flag thrown.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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haha it's amazing what 3 bad calls can do after years upon years of respected reffing

btw, I'm sure the Saints loss has nothing to do with how awful they played for almost 45 minutes of the game, it's all Ed Hochuli's fault for missing a call!!!!
Of course it was Hochuli's fault! Gramatica would have made that FG had it been Mike Carey reffing
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Exactly, and I wouldn't call it three bad calls, more like just one major call. The others are not going to make people start looking at every flag thrown.
well the Denver game was bad, and he even admitted he was wrong but was following the rules and couldn't do anything about it...the blown facemask call that forced a fumble in the NO-Minn game was bad, but if it was anyone but Hochuli it wouldn't be even close to as big of a deal...people are acting like a couple calls negate a whole career of service
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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All they have to do is bring the head slap back
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Is that from P(OS)FT? Screw that dumbass.

Here's the full article from the Indy Star on the blatant offensive holding that the league lets fly:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../1058/SPORTS03

The Colts defense hasn't merited one offensive holding penalty so far this season. Anyone who has watched them, especially Freeney, knows how much BS that is. Not one.

It's been going on for a while, I'm afraid. I think it was the Saints @ Colts season opener last season when I really became aware of how bad it was, the **** that was going on and the refs not calling it.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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Of course it was Hochuli's fault! Gramatica would have made that FG had it been Mike Carey reffing
So a no call of a blatant facemask that lead to a fumble on a promising drive on the Minny side of the field is no big deal right? If it wasn't for the facemask he would have never gotten close enough to strip that ball. It may not have led to a TD but it sure as hell turned the momentum around.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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So a no call of a blatant facemask that lead to a fumble on a promising drive on the Minny side of the field is no big deal right? If it wasn't for the facemask he would have never gotten close enough to strip that ball. It may not have led to a TD but it sure as hell turned the momentum around.
It was not Hochuli's fault. Nor was he the one near the facemask neither was he able to see it from his position
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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So a no call of a blatant facemask that lead to a fumble on a promising drive on the Minny side of the field is no big deal right? If it wasn't for the facemask he would have never gotten close enough to strip that ball. It may not have led to a TD but it sure as hell turned the momentum around.
yes, but that means Hochuli should resign? Come on, you aren't the first team to get screwed out of a call and lose...maybe if the Saints showed up the first half, Gramatica made that FG, you wouldn't even be complaining
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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So a no call of a blatant facemask that lead to a fumble on a promising drive on the Minny side of the field is no big deal right? If it wasn't for the facemask he would have never gotten close enough to strip that ball. It may not have led to a TD but it sure as hell turned the momentum around.
The only reason you all are whining so much is because it was Ed Hochuli's crew. The missed calls will happen. It's magnified a lot more because a turnover happened that play as well. Quit whining and don't let Gus freakin' Frerotte beat you.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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True but once you start letting officials take over games it starts getting ugly. He made quite a few very very bad calls in that game.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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The only reason you all are whining so much is because it was Ed Hochuli's crew. The missed calls will happen. It's magnified a lot more because a turnover happened that play as well. Quit whining and don't let Gus freakin' Frerotte beat you.
Jason David beat us, get it right.
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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Jason David beat us, get it right.
so Gus Frerotte exploited Jason David. Gus beat u guys
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Old 10-08-2008, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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Jason David beat us, get it right.
Whom you gave up a fourth round pick and 16 million dollars for. Geez, and you all wonder why you lose.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Ive seen Michael Strahan get held on damn near every play for the past 14 years or so.

They need to stop complaining. Holding happens on every play. Unless its blatant, they won't call it.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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Except they don't call it when it's blatant either, unfortunately.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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yeah, if thats the case, then they have a legit argument.

but trust me man, ive seen some times Strahan get held so bad it was ridiculous. it comes with the territory of being a top tier rusher. they should take it as a compliment. i personally haven't noticed it to be called any less than years past.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:47 PM    (permalink
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I'm not asking for ticky tack stuff, believe me. I know holding goes on every play, the Colts' offensive line (and tight end Gijon Robinson most definitely) included.

But when say a tackle has an arm around Freeney's neck and is grabbing him back with the other hand, on third down, call that **** damn it. I've seen this happen at the very least ten times since the start of last season, without one call. Anymore blatant and a facemask would have to be used. Honest to goodness, I can't remember the last offensive holding penalty on the tackle opposing Freeney. It's ridiculous imo.

Check out the numbers in that article, look at the massive dip in offensive holding penalties. I bet if one was to look at just the Colts since the start of '06 or '07, the Colts offense would outflag the opponents' offense in offensive holding. Which is laughable but unfortunately the situation.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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It's amazing how many times Trent Cole gets held and nothing gets called, it seems like literally every other play.
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Old 10-08-2008, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Bill Polian recently said that the trend for undersized DEs may have come and gone, and this is probably a big factor why.
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