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Old 10-08-2008, 07:06 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Those #s are off. Interesting.

In regards to small DEs coming and going, i can see that happening. Sort of. I think the base LE starts making a comeback.
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Old 10-08-2008, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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That's why the Lions can't get a pass rush.. there's an insane amount of holding going on. And the reason the Lions can't get anything on offense is because they haven't caught on to the new Holding fad in the NFL.
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Old 10-08-2008, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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Bill Polian and his players are crying about something again? Surprise, surprise.

I read that Bill Polian was upset by the interference call on fourth and one that extended Jacksonville's game-winning drive. How could he have been upset? That was the exact call he has worked so hard to get since he's been with the Colts. He should be thrilled that his work on the competition committee has paid off.

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Old 10-08-2008, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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The same Jags who squeeked past the Steelers in the '07 playoffs because their left tackle wasn't called for holding on 4th down?

And then on Monday the league said there was holding, well no ****.
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Old 10-08-2008, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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Ahh, gotta love rivalries.
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Maybe it's just me but holding can be called on a lot of plays and me personaly i hate watching games where they call holding like every three plays or so. I think that if someone cleary holds another player than fine I have no problem them throwing a flag. We've all seen those holding calls that when you watch it again your like "where??". let the guys play
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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The Saints still get called for holds :(
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Ive actually had a ref tell me hes not going to call holding unless he thinks Im going to make the play, Freeney told the Indianapolis Star. I used to get holding calls. Now they dont call anything. . . . Its ridiculous. Against Jacksonville, there was a guy who grabbed me by my hips and pulled me back.
The whole point of standardized rules is so that you have an objective game. The moment you add "think" to the equation, it becomes a judgment call and thus no longer subjective.

The moment you begin to overlook a penalty for any reason is the moment that the game becomes subjective. And when that happens, the playing field is NEVER level.
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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The Saints still get called for holds :(
Jamal Brown got away with atleast 3 or 4 holds on Jared Allen in the game on monday
So your still getting away with some
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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I'm not asking for ticky tack stuff, believe me. I know holding goes on every play, the Colts' offensive line (and tight end Gijon Robinson most definitely) included.

But when say a tackle has an arm around Freeney's neck and is grabbing him back with the other hand, on third down, call that **** damn it. I've seen this happen at the very least ten times since the start of last season, without one call. Anymore blatant and a facemask would have to be used. Honest to goodness, I can't remember the last offensive holding penalty on the tackle opposing Freeney. It's ridiculous imo.

Check out the numbers in that article, look at the massive dip in offensive holding penalties. I bet if one was to look at just the Colts since the start of '06 or '07, the Colts offense would outflag the opponents' offense in offensive holding. Which is laughable but unfortunately the situation.
I'm not calling just Jacksonville out but seriously that was a terrible game for teams eliminating the pass rush illegally.

1) LaMarr Woodley was thrown to the ground by Tony Pashos while cutting inside. Doesn't sound bad until you hear that Pashos threw him by the facemask.

2) James Harrison ran past Khalif Barnes only to have his jersey literally pulled 3-5 inches from his body (Similar to a hold in the 2007 playoffs not called)

3) LaMarr Woodley was leg whipped by Greg Jones.

........

The only other nagging thing about Refereeing that I see is Roughing the Passer. Roethlisberger can't buy a RtP but Gerrard got one for being hit while he released the ball.

I wouldn't care about it if our QB got the same calls, but seriously Roethlisberger takes some nasty hits and never gets the benefit of the call.

That Shaun Rogers hit was absolutely ridiculous.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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I'm not calling just Jacksonville out but seriously that was a terrible game for teams eliminating the pass rush illegally.

1) LaMarr Woodley was thrown to the ground by Tony Pashos while cutting inside. Doesn't sound bad until you hear that Pashos threw him by the facemask.

2) James Harrison ran past Khalif Barnes only to have his jersey literally pulled 3-5 inches from his body (Similar to a hold in the 2007 playoffs not called)

3) LaMarr Woodley was leg whipped by Greg Jones.

........

The only other nagging thing about Refereeing that I see is Roughing the Passer. Roethlisberger can't buy a RtP but Gerrard got one for being hit while he released the ball.

I wouldn't care about it if our QB got the same calls, but seriously Roethlisberger takes some nasty hits and never gets the benefit of the call.

That Shaun Rogers hit was absolutely ridiculous.
I know i was so pissed about that, he had let go of the ball, stood there still for almost two seconds then gets headbutted by mr fat **** in his injured shoulder and no call.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:58 AM    (permalink
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Still waiting for Ed Hochuli and his crew to turn in their resignation papers to the NFL League Office. They have NO business calling games.
Hochuli made ONE very bad, very public call. 99% of the games he's refereed, he's been an excellent, as well as accommodating and explicit, official. If any crew needs to turn in their resignation papers, it's Walt Coleman and his crew. Have they EVER called a good game?
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:59 AM    (permalink
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What's the Shaun Rogers hit that you're talking about?
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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What's the Shaun Rogers hit that you're talking about?
Against the browns week two, ben threw a pass and stood their for two seconds and rodgers comes in and headbutts him in his shoulder.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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Against the browns week two, ben threw a pass and stood their for two seconds and rodgers comes in and headbutts him in his shoulder.
Absolutely one of the worst no-calls I've ever seen. Blatant roughing the passer.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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I read that Bill Polian was upset by the interference call on fourth and one that extended Jacksonville's game-winning drive. How could he have been upset? That was the exact call he has worked so hard to get since he's been with the Colts. He should be thrilled that his work on the competition committee has paid off.

****** ginger.
That's not at all what Polian wanted called, but you'd know that if you actually paid attention to the issue instead of just saying Polian was/is "crying".

After the 2003 season, as the result of a game called by one Walt Coleman (gee, I wonder who called the game between the Colts and Jaguars...), the competition committee (which, at the time, had Jeff Fisher as a member, still does I believe) decided to pass a "re-emphasis" of the defensive holding rule.

Defensive Pass Interference was called on that play, so that theory doesn't hold water. That said, how was it DPI? Does a defender no longer have a right to position on the field? Because Freddy Keiaho was just standing there, and Reggie Williams ran into him. Also, doesn't the ball have to be catchable for DPI to apply? Even if Freddy Keiaho didn't exist on that play, Reggie Williams was not getting to that ball.

That wasn't even the most egregious misinterpretation of the rule in that game though. Rashean Mathis pulled Marvin Harrison to the ground to get his interception in that game, with no call from the crew. In fact, the only time DPI was called on the Jaguars (specifically Rashean Mathis) of the MANY times it was committed by them was when Marvin physically displayed his frustration with the no calls.
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Old 10-09-2008, 03:29 AM    (permalink
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There's going to be holds that teams get away with and fairly. On a 4th and 24 that's a draw play for 6 yards, who gives a damn if a defensive end is held for example.

On 3rd and 10 inside the redzone and there's an arm hook, that has to be called regardless of whether or not the player is in position to make a tackle or get a sack.

besides which, Mario Williams, Justin Tuck, John Abraham, Julius Peppers, Kampman are all good defensive ends who're more than capable of making backside plays on runs. More the once X player isn't going to be in on the actual hole but can be prevented from running down the back as he's dancing before the hole because of a hold.

With teams studying which refereeing crews call holds more often, it needs to be more standardized. Its not really fair if someone's crew ignores holds more than often and it leads to more offensive continuity.
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:45 AM    (permalink
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1) LaMarr Woodley was thrown to the ground by Tony Pashos while cutting inside. Doesn't sound bad until you hear that Pashos threw him by the facemask.

3) LaMarr Woodley was leg whipped by Greg Jones.
The NFL needed a competitive game. If they call everything that goes on against LaMarr Woodley, every game will turn into a five hour marathon, because no single man can stop LaMarr!
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:46 AM    (permalink
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That wasn't even the most egregious misinterpretation of the rule in that game though. Rashean Mathis pulled Marvin Harrison to the ground to get his interception in that game, with no call from the crew. In fact, the only time DPI was called on the Jaguars (specifically Rashean Mathis) of the MANY times it was committed by them was when Marvin physically displayed his frustration with the no calls.
It's hard to get a read on Marvin, because his vagina starts bleeding every time he gets touched, whether it be legal or not.
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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The NFL needed a competitive game. If they call everything that goes on against LaMarr Woodley, every game will turn into a five hour marathon, because no single man can stop LaMarr!
I don't mind them holding, they can't hold Woodley.

I was worried about his possible health if he's getting whipped around by the facemask, and again, how easily an injury could be if he got leg whipped.

I remember Freeney getting a pretty easy 15 yard call for being legwhipped against Matt Light.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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It's hard to get a read on Marvin, because his vagina starts bleeding every time he gets touched, whether it be legal or not.
That's rich. Marvin doesn't ***** about calls nearly as much as most WRs do. How often do you see most WRs make the "flag throw" motion after a play? I've rarely seen Marvin express frustration about officiating. Just because you don't like his style of play (which, by the way, is and has been overexaggerated) doesn't mean teams should be able to mug him, and they have at times (especially in games that Walt Coleman calls) with no repercussions.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:41 PM    (permalink
Smooth Criminal
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James Harrison got held almost every play against Jacksonville. Barnes was holding him by his facemask or jersey all game.

But the refs could call holding on every play if the really wanted to. They do seem to be giving the tackles much more to work with lately.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:42 PM    (permalink
Smooth Criminal
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That's rich. Marvin doesn't ***** about calls nearly as much as most WRs do. How often do you see most WRs make the "flag throw" motion after a play? I've rarely seen Marvin express frustration about officiating. Just because you don't like his style of play (which, by the way, is and has been overexaggerated) doesn't mean teams should be able to mug him, and they have at times (especially in games that Walt Coleman calls) with no repercussions.
I hate that damn thing. Players act like they're actually gonna get a ref to throw a flag by doing it.

Cedric Wilson used to do that every time he didnt catch the ball no matter what.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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There is almost always holding calling on and unless it is blatant, it won't be called. I think everyone here who is claiming that their team's player got held every play during the game is just being a bit ridiculous. Yes, there are times where refs miss holding calls, but they are not as easily noticeable on a TV as they are in person.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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I hate that damn thing. Players act like they're actually gonna get a ref to throw a flag by doing it.

Cedric Wilson used to do that every time he didnt catch the ball no matter what.
Housh does it all the time too. He throws his arms in the air and starts yelling at the ref.
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