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Old 10-15-2008, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Rayray52 View Post
It's gonna be hilarious if the giants sign eli to a 100+ mil contract then release him 3 years later....
If that happens then they should re name this MB after you. Until then you win the award for one of the dumbest comments ever.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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and wanna hear another stat? Rings: Eli 1, Couch 0
That stat is worse than passer rating.

DMW's analysis is pretty amazing and goes to show how the strange yet useful stat works. I don't think Eli Manning is elite. I'm not even sure if he's very good. I mean, how bad can you be with Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer, along with his O-line? I think it's a legitimate question.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by The Unseen View Post
That stat is worse than passer rating.

DMW's analysis is pretty amazing and goes to show how the strange yet useful stat works. I don't think Eli Manning is elite. I'm not even sure if he's very good. I mean, how bad can you be with Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer, along with his O-line? I think it's a legitimate question.

He had 1 bad game.. Not to mention he was in a horrible system with a piss poor OC which is a point NO ONE BRINGS UP! And people have assumed he won't get better. You see we tossed him in the fire the 2nd half of the season his rookie year under an idiot OC. We didn't sit him for 3 years and plug him in.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by The Unseen View Post
That stat is worse than passer rating.

DMW's analysis is pretty amazing and goes to show how the strange yet useful stat works. I don't think Eli Manning is elite. I'm not even sure if he's very good. I mean, how bad can you be with Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer, along with his O-line? I think it's a legitimate question.
that was kinda my point, brining up a pointless stat to counter the OP's countless stat...
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Crickett View Post
Yes, clearly Couch's 75.1 QB rating proves he is a better QB than Eli Manning with his 74.8 QB rating. In much the same way it proves Chad Pennington (89.5), Trent Green (86.7) and Marc Bulger (87.4) are better quarterbacks than Dan Marino (86.38), Brett Favre (86.0) and Johnny Unitas (78.2).
You do realize that era adjustments are a useful tool to understand and interpret passer ratings, right? For example, when era adjusted, Johnny U's passer rating in a few years of his career would have been a mark that would still stand today.
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bruce Banner View Post
In short. The QB rating statistic is **** and Eli is better than it makes him out to be....but he still sucks. He shows up against ****** defenses and ***** up against good defenses. Once again the stats lie. Maybe they should weigh how good the defenses are when calculating the QB passer rating.
You probably already know about it, but:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Eli Manning sucks, Never mind he's the first giants QB to have consecutive winning seasons since Parcells was here, or that he's been incredibly clutch throughout his career, or even that he's yet to have a competent OC who calls plays for the players he has and not the players he wishes he had. Eli is garbage and will never amount to anything, he's not a leader, would a leader come into a veteran team as a rookie and let them corrupt the lockerroom against him, i'm looking at you tiki, or stand for having an atrocious defense his first two seasons. Heck would a leader let Shockey, Plax and our receiving corps lead the league in drops? HELL NO MANNING IS GARBAGE, almost as bad as his older brother Peyton...
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine View Post

Finally, the Eli we saw in the playoffs has returned for an encore performance (at least so far this year). Everyone says he looks like a "made man", and is playing so much better this season. The best way to quantify stats is to monitor how well they reflect the obvious. His passer rating this season? 91.4.

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Originally Posted by bantx View Post

Game
1.) WAS 61.1 QB rating 19-35 passing 216 yards 0 TD 1 INT
2.) STL 131.4 QB rating 20-29 passing 260 yards 3 TD 0 INT
3.) CIN 88.2 QB rating 26-43 passing 289 yards 1 TD 0 INT
4.) BYE
5.) SEA 136.6 QB rating 19-25 passing 267 yards 2 TD 0 INT
6.) CLE 57.1 QB rating 18-28 passing 196 yards 1 TD 3 INT
Average. 91.4 Passer Rating... I wonder why.

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Old 10-15-2008, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Eli Manning deserves to be banned from the NFL
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Eli Manning deserves to be banned from the NFL
Is this an attempt for laughs?
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Is this an attempt for laughs?
No it's a fact, he throws so many INTs and doesn't have a good game face, how could any QB have success with those things, plus he should be banned for what he did tot he Chargers, he ruined that team by refusing to play there...
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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No it's a fact, he throws so many INTs and doesn't have a good game face, how could any QB have success with those things, plus he should be banned for what he did tot he Chargers, he ruined that team by refusing to play there...
I didn't really want to enter into this argument but IMO Rivers is a better QB than Eli Manning. That is just my opinion though.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Crickett View Post
Yes, clearly Couch's 75.1 QB rating proves he is a better QB than Eli Manning with his 74.8 QB rating. In much the same way it proves Chad Pennington (89.5), Trent Green (86.7) and Marc Bulger (87.4) are better quarterbacks than Dan Marino (86.38), Brett Favre (86.0) and Johnny Unitas (78.2).
Chad Pennington is the man though.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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I didn't really want to enter into this argument but IMO Rivers is a better QB than Eli Manning. That is just my opinion though.
I like Rivers a lot to, although I think Eli's a better fit for the situation he ended up in. Really any debate about any of the top three from 2004 just doesn't go anywhere.

People hate and under-rate eli because he doesn't put up big stats, pulled that ish with SD and is a mannig with a poor game face people love to rip on, or they see the clutch leadership and love him to the point of over-rating him, same with Big Ben except he's hated for being almost Tim Tebow stupid and not a lack of stats.

Rivers is the only one who's generally appreciated by all, although even with him some people believe he's elite while others argue he's below Big Ben and Eli in tier two. Personally if I had to I'd rank them Eli, Rivers, Ben, but only because eli's been so incredibly clutch for us and unfortunately hasn't had the caliber of play calling that Rivers and Big Ben have gotten.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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I like Rivers a lot to, although I think Eli's a better fit for the situation he ended up in. Really any debate about any of the top three from 2004 just doesn't go anywhere.

People hate and under-rate eli because he doesn't put up big stats, pulled that ish with SD and is a mannig with a poor game face people love to rip on, or they see the clutch leadership and love him to the point of over-rating him, same with Big Ben except he's hated for being almost Tim Tebow stupid and not a lack of stats.

Rivers is the only one who's generally appreciated by all, although even with him some people believe he's elite while others argue he's below Big Ben and Eli in tier two. Personally if I had to I'd rank them Eli, Rivers, Ben, but only because eli's been so incredibly clutch for us and unfortunately hasn't had the caliber of play calling that Rivers and Big Ben have gotten.
Fair enough. I think Eli refusing to play for the Chargers was great for SD. They got a bunch of extra picks and the QB who IMO is better. They just have to put it all together now. I have never been a huge fan of Eli but he came up huge when they needed him too and helped win a SB so he has that going for him.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough. I think Eli refusing to play for the Chargers was great for SD. They got a bunch of extra picks and the QB who IMO is better. They just have to put it all together now. I have never been a huge fan of Eli but he came up huge when they needed him too and helped win a SB so he has that going for him.
See Eli has more going for him than just last years playoff run, sure it was the first stretch where you saw him consistently playing great against elite teams, but before then he had shown the ability to drive us for scores late in games when we needed them and that clutchness is why us giants faithful love him so much. Watching a giants game we're comfortable knowing that even if we're down in the 4th Eli will lead us down the field and give us a chance to win, which is important with such a hit or miss Defense.

I think Rivers was a better fit for SD and Eli a better fit of NY, I'm not going to say one's better than the other because really it depends on how your team is built and what scheme you're planning to run and what you expect the QB to do. If you've got major talent at the skill positions and you need someone who'll spread the ball around effectively and give his team a spark with his passion you've gotta go with Rivers. If you need someone who'll stand in the pocket and get rocked b/c of a poor oline but deliver rockets down the field you'll want Big Ben. If you want a guy who'll take lesser talent and faciliate an offense instead of being an offense while being able to take over and drive a team singlehandedly when needed you'd want Eli.

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Old 10-15-2008, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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What the Chargers did in that draft is why they have been successful. Amazing what they did.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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What the Chargers did in that draft is why they have been successful. Amazing what they did.
Meh, that draft certainly helped, but a big reason for their success is that the had great co-ordinators, Brees exploded, LDT has been god, Gates became the man and then the draft. But yeah that draft was a big reason for their success, not the only reason but a good part of it.
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Old 10-15-2008, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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You probably already know about it, but:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb
Cool stuff.
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
He had 1 bad game.. Not to mention he was in a horrible system with a piss poor OC which is a point NO ONE BRINGS UP! And people have assumed he won't get better. You see we tossed him in the fire the 2nd half of the season his rookie year under an idiot OC. We didn't sit him for 3 years and plug him in.
1 bad game his entire career? I'm not talking about Monday; I'm talking about his whole career. Thus the discussion of his career passer rating, not Monday's passer rating.
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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1 bad game his entire career? I'm not talking about Monday; I'm talking about his whole career. Thus the discussion of his career passer rating, not Monday's passer rating.
Or in week 1 against a mediocre Washington team (at the time)...

The fact is, i believe, with the exception of the playoffs, the team manages to win despite him.
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by awfullyquiet View Post
Game
1.) WAS 61.1 QB rating 19-35 passing 216 yards 0 TD 1 INT
2.) STL 131.4 QB rating 20-29 passing 260 yards 3 TD 0 INT
3.) CIN 88.2 QB rating 26-43 passing 289 yards 1 TD 0 INT
4.) BYE
5.) SEA 136.6 QB rating 19-25 passing 267 yards 2 TD 0 INT
6.) CLE 57.1 QB rating 18-28 passing 196 yards 1 TD 3 INT

Average. 91.4 Passer Rating... I wonder why.

Valid points, certainly. But if you have followed Eli, like I have being a NFC East fan and owning him in several key FF leagues, you know that he has been very well known for playing horribly against even bad teams. A cursory glance will show the following performances against awful defenses last season:

Opp......YPG rank....Pass Rating Rank......Eli pass rating
Chi........27th.............19th.................. .....63.0
SF.........22nd.............28th.................. .....78.2
Det........31st.............31st.................. .....33.8
Mia........4th...............29th................. ......44.9


Awful performances against horrible defenses.

Now, Eli has started well before, but I think he has cleared a hurdle this season, and we will see by far his best regular season ever. I would expect him to maintain a rating in the mid-high 80s, with an outside shot at topping 90. Considering that he has been pimping it in the 70s his entire career, you can't overstate the magnitude of his improvement.

Also, when you compare the obvious improvement that is evident by watching him play with the corresponding improvement in passer rating, you see that it is, in fact, a very useful tool for measuring QB play.

Anyone who says differently either a) doesn't understand it or b) has an axe to grind because it doesn't support their favorite player being the GOAT.
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He was protecting his self
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough. But now instead of beating up on good teams and turning the corner and becoming more consistent...

He's now able to beat up on cupcakes to pad his stats.

Cute.
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Old 10-15-2008, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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DMW, are you ******* serious? Eli single handedly lost the Giants the Monday night game? god forbid the defense stop the run, or Braylon Edwards or get a pass rush.

and it's the ******* new york media, every big name players name has been mentioned in getting the axe, it's how it ******* goes.

why don't you go suck on the cowboys greatest secondary ever?
Say what you want, Scotty, but the Giants had been able to move the ball basically at will against the Browns. They couldn't stop them running the ball, and they couldn't stop the passing game. Hell, even after the beating they were handing the G-Men, Eli had his team inside the 20 yard line driving in for a score to cut the lead back to 6 and threw a pick that literally ended the game. Horrible decision, horrible throw.

I'm not meaning to say that Eli was the only reason why they lost. When you get pounded like that, there's always plenty of reasons. I'm saying that he is, by far, the BIGGEST of all those reasons. So much so that, if he had simply not thrown those 3 picks, I believe they would have won the game.
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

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Old 10-15-2008, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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What the Chargers did in that draft is why they have been successful. Amazing what they did.
Yet the Giants and Steelers have both won Superbowls since then while San Diego already had the best player in the league before that draft.
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