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Old 10-17-2008, 08:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CJSchneider View Post
UFL and AFL, while sounding exciting will end up being like all the other NFL duplicates (USFL, Arena, WLAF); not as good as the NFL.
Yes but when the CBA stalls lock out the NFL in 2011 or whenever its supposed to happen, the UFL will be the only game in town.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Funny you should mention that. When I lived in the wiregrass, I worked in the ConAgra broiler processing plant in Enterprise. I still eat chicken. That video you put together missed some of the more stomache churning parts of the plant.

But anyways, trying to justify dog fighting by making it comperable to food is laughable. Humans are omnivores. We need to eat both meat and plant life to sustain a healthy life. Just as a diet of exclusively meat will eventually cause significant health side effects due to Vitamin C defficiency, so will a diet completely excluding meat lead to serious health complications due to Vitamin B12 defficiency. Eating meat is needed for a healthy life. It's behavior seen throughout the animal kingdom. Dog fighting, however, has no such parallel. I guess you could say that it's one of those things that seperate us from the rest of the animal kingdom.
You need to eat meat to be healthy? Have you ever heard of a vegetarian? You can absolutely live healthily without eating a single piece of meat.

Further, would you support what Vick did if he ate the dogs afterwards?

Also, how can you say there is no parallel in the animal kingdom? Dog fighting existed long before humans ever got the idea to do it. The dogs did it themselves!
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by I am the beast View Post
You need to eat meat to be healthy? Have you ever heard of a vegetarian? You can absolutely live healthily without eating a single piece of meat.

Further, would you support what Vick did if he ate the dogs afterwards?

Also, how can you say there is no parallel in the animal kingdom? Dog fighting existed long before humans ever got the idea to do it. The dogs did it themselves!
would you? Even if he was killing the dogs to eat them it is still illegal. He would still be in jail, eating dogs is not ok in our culture because we think of pets i.e dogs a being apart of our family. They eat dogs in china because they don't veiw dogs as pets. Kinda like bugs we don't eat them in the U.S because we think that they are gross, but other cultures eat bugs as a very big part of their diet. Eating the dogs that he killed would have made zero diffrence on what happed to him, in fact i think that had vick eaten the dogs, It would make me think that Vick is F***ing crazy.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ufl/index.html

Just not in the NFL. I don't know how many of you are familiar with the UFL but it appears they are trying to really get the wheels moving for an August 2009 kickoff date. They have 6 teams already set up in LA, Las Vegas, Hartford, New York, Orlando, and San Francisco. They plan to go up head to head with the NFL except they will play their games on Fridays.
If Vick somehow gets out of jail and beats the state charges, he's going to try to play in the NFL not the UFL.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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A no we won't. Carson is our guy, not some dog killer. We have a real NFL QB, not some runner who plays QB. There is no comparison and I can't believe you'd even make a statment like that.
Yeah because Carson Palmer has looked awesome this year.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Yeah because Carson Palmer has looked awesome this year.
Palmers been hurt and has no run game, nor has his o-line played well this year. Are you saying that you'd rather have Vick over Palmer?
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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If Vick somehow gets out of jail and beats the state charges, he's going to try to play in the NFL not the UFL.
He's already suspended for all of 2009 season as well with a possibility of not being reinstated in 2010. He'd be an idiot to think a team would sign him in 2010 after 3 years away from the game
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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He's already suspended for all of 2009 season as well with a possibility of not being reinstated in 2010. He'd be an idiot to think a team would sign him in 2010 after 3 years away from the game
LOL. He's NOT already suspended for the 2009 season. You just completely made that up.

You'd be ignorant of history to think that he can't come back after missing 3 years of football. Chris Redman, Tommy Maddox, Todd Collins all did it and none of those guys are as talented as Vick.

If he stays in shape none of his abilities should diminish.

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Palmers been hurt and has no run game, nor has his o-line played well this year. Are you saying that you'd rather have Vick over Palmer?
For that Bengals team? Absolutely. That's what made Vick so special. He could win with garbage around him because of his improvisational skills.

Getting Vick on the move with guys like TJ Houshmanzedah and Chad Johnson?

The Bengals would at least be at .500 right now. At least. Vick also opened up the running game. The Falcons lead the league 3 straight years in rushing because of him. They would have set a record of that feat if he didn't get convicted.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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LOL. He's NOT already suspended for the 2009 season. You just completely made that up.

You'd be ignorant of history to think that he can't come back after missing 3 years of football. Chris Redman, Tommy Maddox, Todd Collins all did it and none of those guys are as talented as Vick.

If he stays in shape none of his abilities should diminish..
Saw it in an article. I'll try to find it.

Edit. My apologies. The article I provided says in all likelyhood he'll be suspended for all of 2009 and given Goddell's track record I feel confident that will be the case.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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Saw it in an article. I'll try to find it.
Good luck finding it because it does not exist.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...ohn&id=3148767

What is the league's position?
Commissioner Roger Goodell doesn't have to do anything until 2009, when Vick should be clear of his legal problems for dogfighting. It's similar to the Tank Johnson situation. Johnson, former defensive tackle of the Chicago Bears, served 45 days in jail on a misdemeanor weapons charge. After he was released from jail May 13, Johnson met with Goodell and was suspended for eight games. He's now playing with the Dallas Cowboys. Once Vick is out of prison, he will meet with Goodell to discuss a return to the NFL and a possible league suspension. The earliest possible meeting is May 2009.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Good luck finding it because it does not exist.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...ohn&id=3148767

What is the league's position?
Commissioner Roger Goodell doesn't have to do anything until 2009, when Vick should be clear of his legal problems for dogfighting. It's similar to the Tank Johnson situation. Johnson, former defensive tackle of the Chicago Bears, served 45 days in jail on a misdemeanor weapons charge. After he was released from jail May 13, Johnson met with Goodell and was suspended for eight games. He's now playing with the Dallas Cowboys. Once Vick is out of prison, he will meet with Goodell to discuss a return to the NFL and a possible league suspension. The earliest possible meeting is May 2009.
if you think Goodell will let him walk right back into the league you're nieve. Heck Odell Thurman has been out for 2 years for a missed drug test and a DUI
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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The article I provided says in all likelyhood he'll be suspended for all of 2009 and given Goddell's track record I feel confident that will be the case.
I feel the opposite. I think because Vick was a 1st time offender, Goddell will show mercy. At the most he gets suspended 1/4 of the season.

The only guys Goddell has suspended for the year have been guys who were repeat offenders.

He will probably only kick Vick out of the league or at least for the season if he gets in any legal trouble afterwards.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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if you think Goodell will let him walk right back into the league you're nieve. Heck Odell Thurman has been out for 2 years for a missed drug test and a DUI
Let's look at Odell Thurman's rap sheet:

Odell Thurman was suspended by the National Football League for the first four games of the 2006 regular season for violating the league's substance abuse policy. According to sources,Odell Thurman did not return to Cincinnati in time and failed to take the test. [2], [3]
Gerard said there were two other Bengals players in the car with Thurman, but he did not name them. The car belonged to "another Bengal," not Thurman, Gerard said. [4]
On September 27, 2006, the NFL extended Thurman's suspension for the remainder of the season as a result of the arrest. [5] Thurman's locker was emptied by the Bengals organization. Coach Marvin Lewis said he didn't want to see Odell Thurman anywhere near the stadium, and he then deactivated Chris Henry for the next game for being part of the incident. Lewis later stated that he didn't expect Thurman to play for the Bengals in 2007

On February 21, 2007, Thurman pleaded no contest to the driving drunk charge and said he was undergoing treatment for alcohol abuse.[

On May 15th, 2007, Bengals' head coach Marvin Lewis told ESPN that Thurman would have the chance to return to the team, if reinstated by the NFL. Thurman was eligible for reinstatement on July 11, 2007. It was suspected that the organization would cut Thurman from the roster, but Lewis said otherwise. [7]
On June 5th, however, ESPN reported that he was wanted for assault in Georgia, for alleged kicking and hitting two men. Thurman and his brother were sought for questioning in connection with this assault. The sherriff involved in the case said that the incident was not quickly reported and that a magistrate would choose whether or not to continue with the charges on June 8th 2007. Conflicting reports from witnesses at the party where the assault allegedly occurred however may make prosecution of this case difficult. [8]
On June 8th, 2007, papers seeking to dismiss the charges stated above were filed, and charges against the linebacker were summarily dropped. Chrissy Pitts, deputy clerk of Magistrate Court in Jasper County, said "It was settled, we aren’t aware of any terms that were involved in the settlement. That was between the attorneys and the parties.” [9]
On July 25th, 2007, Thurman's request for re-instatement into the NFL was denied by commissioner Roger Goodell, so he was not able to play in 2007[10]. Thurman is not currently listed on the Bengals' active roster, and another Bengals player, fellow linebacker Corey Mays, currently wears his uniform number.
On July 12, 2008, Thurman was indicted by a grand jury for breaking another man's jaw at a waterpark in Sandusky, Ohio during the previous month, though he was not arrested on the scene.[11]

NFL Reinstatement
On January 28th 2008, The NFL cleared linebacker Odell Thurman to resume working out with the Cincinnati Bengals, a step toward reinstatement from his two-year suspension.[citation needed]
Thurman was reinstated by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on April 21, 2008. "Odell has met the NFL's conditions for reinstatement and has been added to our offseason roster," said Bengals coach Marvin Lewis. [12]
On May 19th 2008, the Cincinnati Bengals waived Thurman, after Head Coach Marvin Lewis stated that the team "had not seen the right steps taken by him." However, Thurman's representatives reported that the move was related to Thurman missing Offseason Training Activities (OTA's), which are not mandatory according to the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement.[13]
On June 2, 2008, Sports Illustrated reported Odell, recently cut by the Bengals, had failed his second drug test in 3 seasons. [14]
On June 6, 2008, ESPN reported Odell had been suspended by the NFL indefinitely. As part of the ruling, Thurman cannot apply for reinstatement until after the 2008 season. [15]


Just like Chris Henry
Since his college days at West Virginia University, Chris Henry has had a checkered off-field reputation. He also had several on-field incidents. During his redshirt sophomore season, he was ejected from a game at Rutgers University due to multiple unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and was suspended for the season finale against the University of Pittsburgh.
• December 15, 2005: Henry was pulled over in Northern Kentucky for speeding. During a search, marijuana was found in his shoes. He was also driving without a valid driver's license or valid insurance.
• January 30, 2006: Henry was arrested in Orlando, Florida for multiple gun charges including concealment and aggravated assault with a firearm.[15] He was reported to have been wearing his #15 Bengals jersey at the time of his arrest. Henry pleaded guilty and avoided jail time in both cases.
• May 4, 2006: Cincinnati media reported that Henry was being investigated by Covington, Kentucky police in connection with a sex crime which allegedly occurred in a Covington hotel room in the early morning of April 30, 2006. No charges have yet been filed, and on May 24, 2006, Covington police reported that there is no proof anything happened and that the alleged victim might have concocted the story and may face charges for filing a false police report.
• June 3, 2006: Chris Henry was pulled over outside on Interstate 275 at 1:18 a.m by Ohio Highway Patrol trooper Michael Shimko. At 2:06 a.m. Henry voluntarily submitted to a breathalyzer test at Milford Police Department and registered a .092 blood-alcohol level, .012 above the level permitted in the state of Ohio.[16]
• September 25, 2006: Bengals linebacker Odell Thurman was pulled over for driving under the influence. The truck Thurman was driving belonged to rookie quarterback/receiver Reggie McNeal. Neither McNeal nor Henry, who were passengers, were charged with any wrongdoing by authorities. However, Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis suspended Henry for the Bengals game against the New England Patriots.
• October 6, 2006: Henry was suspended by the NFL for two games for violating the league's personal conduct and substance abuse policies. NFL policies forbid Henry from taking part in practices, however, he was allowed to attend any team meetings. Henry missed the Bengals' October 15, 2006 game at Tampa Bay and their October 22, 2006 home game versus Carolina.[17]
• January 25, 2007: Henry plead guilty to charges of providing alcohol to minors, an incident that occurred at a hotel in the spring in 2006. He was sentenced to 90 days in jail, with all but two of those days being suspended.[18]
• April 10, 2007: Henry was suspended for the first eight games of the 2007 NFL season for violations of the NFL's personal conduct policy.[10] His suspension comes with a stern warning that future misconduct may result in the end of his career with the NFL. Henry was given permission by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell to begin practicing fully.[19] His suspension was lifted and he played in the November 11, 2007 game versus the Baltimore Ravens, amassing 4 catches for 99 yards.
• May 18, 2007: It was reported by the Cincinnati Enquirer that Henry allegedly failed a court-mandated drug test. The report showed that he had taken an opiate, but the result was later proven to be false. The failed drug test would have been the third violation of the NFL's substance abuse policy. A third violation, per league rules, results in a one-year suspension. In addition to having his suspension increased to 24 games, he would have had to serve an 88 day jail sentence.[20] As of May 23, 2007, the State of Kentucky has reported that Henry in fact did NOT fail a drug test, and that earlier reports to the contrary are erroneous.
• June 12, 2007: Henry allegedly assaulted a 16-year-old boy with teammate Reggie McNeal. The claims were later reported to be unfounded[21] and Henry and McNeal have been exonerated.
• November 6, 2007: Henry allegedly assaulted a valet attendant at Newport on the Levee.[22]
• December 3, 2007: Henry arrested for the second time in Orlando, Florida for violating his probation he was on from a January 30, 2006 arrest. On February 21, 2008 he was found not guilty. On February 26, 2008, a motion to terminate probation in Orange County, Florida was denied.
• March 31, 2008: Henry was alleged to have punched a man named Gregory Meyer, 18, and thrown a beer bottle through the window of his car. Henry claimed it was a case of mistaken identity and also that he thought it was somebody else that owed him money.[23] Henry was waived by the Bengals a day after this arrest and was then forced to serve a house arrest sentence.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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None of those guys had the public trial and prision sentence that Vick did. The league will continue to see huge protest from animal rights groups if they allow Vick back immediately. Goodell seems pretty adamant about not attracting negative attention to the league right now.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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None of those guys had the public trial and prision sentence that Vick did. The league will continue to see huge protest from animal rights groups if they allow Vick back immediately. Goodell seems pretty adamant about not attracting negative attention to the league right now.
Exactly. Vick was humiliated. He's paying his debt to society. He had and lost everything in a span of a few months.

If you think he will ban Vick because of PETA that is wishful thinking.


It was still only ONE trial. It was ONE incident.


Those guys broke the NFL code of conduct policy SEVERAL times. Just take a look at those laundry lists.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. Vick was humiliated. He's paying his debt to society. He had and lost everything in a span of a few months.

If you think he will ban Vick because of PETA that is wishful thinking.


It was still only ONE trial. It was ONE incident.


Those guys broke the NFL code of conduct policy SEVERAL times. Just take a look at those laundry lists.
I'm not saying it'll be a lifetime ban but I can concievably see him being suspended for all of 2009. With that said, if Vick can get a chance to sign a one year deal to play in this UFL he'd be a fool not to take it. Heck it might even be best for him to become the face of an entire league as opposed to potentially never starting another football game again in the NFL.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying it'll be a lifetime ban but I can concievably see him being suspended for all of 2009. With that said, if Vick can get a chance to sign a one year deal to play in this UFL he'd be a fool not to take it. Heck it might even be best for him to become the face of an entire league as opposed to potentially never starting another football game again in the NFL.
First of all, Vick will be fortunate to get out of prison in 2009 which would mean he beats the state charges.

But if he does somehow beat them, he would be foolish not to try to go back to the NFL.

Why in the world would the UFL be his first choice???


Sure it's a great backup plan. But clearly the NFL should be his first option. Not some start up league for washed up players like Tim Couch.


If Vick is still in shape he is way too good for that league. The QB play in the NFL is not very good. There are never more than a handful or two of good starters.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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First of all, Vick will be fortunate to get out of prison in 2009 which would mean he beats the state charges.

But if he does somehow beat them, he would be foolish not to try to go back to the NFL.

Why in the world would the UFL be his first choice???


Sure it's a great backup plan. But clearly the NFL should be his first option.
Because it'd be a guarenteed starting job and the ability to have an entire league's advertising built directly around him. I guarentee there aren't a ton of teams beating down Michael Vick's doors looking to hand over a starting QB job to him right now.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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If Vick is still in shape he is way too good for that league. The QB play in the NFL is not very good. There are never more than a handful or two of good starters.
Vick was not a good NFL starter either. As a QB he was one of the worst in the league. It was only his ability to run that made people overlook that.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Because it'd be a guarenteed starting job and the ability to have an entire league's advertising built directly around him. I guarentee there aren't a ton of teams beating down Michael Vick's doors looking to hand over a starting QB job to him right now.
It doesn't have to be a "ton" of teams. Doesn't have to be 2/3 of the league like it was after the 2002 season.

But I guarantee you there is at least a handful that would take him. Have you looked at some of the QBs that are starting in this league lately?
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Vick was not a good NFL starter either. As a QB he was one of the worst in the league. It was only his ability to run that made people overlook that.
IF he could put NFL calibre corners, linebackers and safeties out of their shoes, he can do it to scrubs.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Vick was not a good NFL starter either. As a QB he was one of the worst in the league. It was only his ability to run that made people overlook that.
And the ignorance starts to show. Vick was top 10 in the league in PASSING TDs his last year in the league. BTW, his ability to RUN was part of him being QB.

Not like those yards and TDs didn't count.


That's like saying that Shaq was only good because he was so big. You can't take away someone's strength.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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And the ignorance starts to show. Vick was top 10 in the league in PASSING TDs his last year in the league.
His career passer rating of 75.7 begs to differ. Also his completion percentage of 53.8% is disgusting.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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His career passer rating of 75.7 begs to differ. Also his completion percentage of 53.8% is disgusting.
LOL shows you how overrated that stat is. Tim Couch had a career rating of 75.1.

Joey Harrington had a rating of 77.2 last year. Boy was he a more effective QB than Vick for the Falcons last year.

Even better Chris Redman had a rating of 90.4 last year. Man he must be 5x better than Vick.

BTW, completion percentage is tied heavily to that formula. And that stat is just as overrated because it doesn't take into account drops, throw aways, circus catches, and when you got a QB like Vick who doesn't throw the dumpoffs that boost that stat but instead runs for the yardage himself.


Completion percentage doesn't do jack. It's about total yardage and TDs that move the chains and put points on the board. Vick was top 10 in the league in both. That's why he was also top 10 in win percentage.

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Old 10-17-2008, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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LOL shows you how overrated that stat is. Tim Couch had a career rating of 75.1.

Joey Harrington had a rating of 77.2 last year. Boy was he a more effective QB than Vick for the Falcons last year.

Even better Chris Redman had a rating of 90.4 last year. Man he must be 5x better than Vick.

BTW, completion percentage is tied heavily to that formula. And that stat is just as overrated because it doesn't take into account drops, throw aways, circus catches, and when you got a QB like Vick who doesn't throw the dumpoffs that boost that stat but instead runs for the yardage himself.


Completion percentage doesn't do jack. It's about total yardage and TDs that move the chains and put points on the board. Vick was top 10 in the league in both. That's why he was also top 10 in win percentage.
Completion percentage doesn't mean jack? That must be why the Titans are rushing to get Vince Young back in the lineup. Oh wait they aren't.
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