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Old 10-16-2008, 07:42 PM    (permalink
Prowler
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and actually i'm 23 and about to graduate as a political science major (pre-law) who is arguing a point that players giving into the nfl is not a good thing. they are absolutely being hammered by letting the nfl change the rules and 'make examples' of them. the consistancy isn't their and the nfl doesn't always have the right. i'd say 'fair' would be everytime the arbitrators rule that the nfl fined a player too much money that said player should have the right to sue the nfl for damages for 'improper conduct'. nobody can actually DO anything when the nfl changes the rules except stop playing. some of these guys are making clean hits and are being fined, that's wrong and the nfl needs to be wronged a few times.

which i don't personally believe that nfl players sueing the nfl is a good thing, i believe they should have their own rights and interests protected. the whole thing just leads to a bad place and needs to be readdressed.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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i haven't made a single sexist comment
sorry. it's 3am. my bad. you didn't. that was other trolls.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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sorry. it's 3am. my bad. you didn't. that was other trolls.
before anyone asks, she is in africa
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
arguing a point that players giving into the nfl is not a good thing.
the NFLPA doesn't seem to think that these are a 'bad' idea... if players want to argue. Go through the union, not make a big stink solo. it weakens the overall leagues position.

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they are absolutely being hammered by letting the nfl change the rules and 'make examples' of them. the consistancy isn't their and the nfl doesn't always have the right.
why doesn't the NFL have the right? it's their league. they set the rules. just because they enforce them badly doesn't make them any less valid or not.

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i'd say 'fair' would be everytime the arbitrators rule that the nfl fined a player too much money that said player should have the right to sue the nfl for damages for 'improper conduct'.
the NFLPA doesn't actually come in an formally protest fines that are excessive already? that's news to me...


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nobody can actually DO anything when the nfl changes the rules except stop playing.
that's the price you pay for winning the lottery that is called playing in the NFL.

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some of these guys are making clean hits and are being fined, that's wrong and the nfl needs to be wronged a few times.
Vengeance eh? That's the real mature way to work things out...

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which i don't personally believe that nfl players sueing the nfl is a good thing, i believe they should have their own rights and interests protected. the whole thing just leads to a bad place and needs to be readdressed.
Hence the NFLPA exists... You act like the majority of players are getting slighted? When in reality, it's just a few big name talent guys who want to whine. You act like the players aren't protected.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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before anyone asks, she is in africa
and i was way awake before you renji.
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Old 10-16-2008, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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i understand, nothing personal. my fault for continuing, i've been stuck in defensive mode lately.

and we have a half dozen examples in the past few weeks, that is unacceptable.

as for rules enforcement, well if my work fined me for stealing, office tackling, etc. when i wasn't, well i'd take issue with that.

and well there's protesting, then there's lawsuits....you try to take from me unfairly, such as cd companies, cell phone providers, cable providers, dell, landlords, etc. then what protections would i have besides going through court everytime? sometimes there has to be punitive damages to ensure abuse of power doesn't occur. that avenue should be open to everybody. i don't like where that leads which is why i say drop these 'pansy' fines

and its easy for nfl sympathizers to call player retaliation against the league as simple vengeance when they are the ones pulling all the strings
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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i understand, nothing personal. my fault for continuing, i've been stuck in defensive mode lately.
well. i was expecting you to carry on. but, obviously were having issues.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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The average lifespan of an NFL player is 62. Anything to extend that I support.
Well athletes often live shorter lives, because they're so much larger than average people. Also a lot of old athletes lived extremely unhealthy lifestyles, smoking and drinking a lot of the time.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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Well athletes often live shorter lives, because they're so much larger than average people. Also a lot of old athletes lived extremely unhealthy lifestyles, smoking and drinking a lot of the time.
Very true. But the smoking and drinking may be due to: pain?
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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i guess this helps sum it up for me too. arbitration isn't the same as having the right to sue.

http://www.todaysworkplace.org/2003/...ation-opinion/

Arbitration Often Limits or Eliminates Essential Procedural Protections

• Arbitrators do not have to know or follow the law

• Arbitrators do not grant injunctive or remedial relief

• Arbitration does not contain the procedural safeguards of court

• Arbitrators do not have to abide by the Federal Rules of Evidence

• Arbitrators do not have to abide by the Federal Rules of Discovery

• Limited compensatory and attorneys’ fees makes hiring a lawyer difficult

• Arbitrators do not have to be lawyers

• Arbitrators rarely issue written opinions

• Arbitrators do not have to justify their rulings

• Arbitrators are only regulated in two states

i'd also add that arbitrators rely on the system for repeat business thus they are more likely to rule in favor of the nfl and are too biased
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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i love some of the stupid examples people have given. 'Hey, lets show an obvious helmet-to-helmet hit' or 'Look at this late hit, how can you say this doesn't deserve a fine!!' Please people, get with it. No one is disputing that plays deserve fines. It is the weak/marginal things, playing to the whistle, a weak and very borderline QB hit (you know they call to many roughing the passer penalties), etc. No one has said get rid of fines, so many people are taking this to a whole new level that isn't even being disputed (didn't read the last page of posts).
I find it interesting that defensive players take the majority of the questionable fines, and the primary way offensive guys get them is through celebration (side note). What a player does off the field is also not relevant to what happens on it when making a 'convincing' arguement.
I was actually laughing at some people's posts on here. I love the way some people pump themselves up. THEY CAN'T BE WRONG!! hahaha
Keep it up guys.
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Old 10-16-2008, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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in that spirit, i'm not wrong. players who are probably forced to sign away their right to lawsuit and get arbitration instead. 'judged' by a system conducive to established pro-nfl standards where everyone profits provided the ruling goes the nfl's way. i'd say eric smith, whom hit bolden. i hated that play, but $50,000 fine out of a $450,000 salary is substantial. lets say the normal fine for a hit like that is 20,000 or so less than that. i'm not even saying that he doesn't deserve that fine or more. just that there aren't even clear standards anymore. and in pepper's case i believe with the late hit to the helmet of matt ryan, its not even being enforced accurately. pepper's legal rights sit with an arbitrator who doesn't even have to follow the law specifically, just reach some sort of conclusion. which peppers doesn't want to stick it to the nfl even if he could because the system is stacked against him. with eric smith, lets say he's out of the nfl in 2 years. most of that money goes to training/maintaining his lifestyle and his house. the nfl knows that they can never get away with what they do with 'contracts' (what a joke term) in a real legal system so they have to do it this way to maintain power. if someone wants a 10 page rant about this i think i'll write a paper about it with actual works cited and such.

k, done, i'm now reverting back to simple mode, 'let them hit each other' 'it aint fair'
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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How bout we all just agree to put Flags and Dresses on the QB that way we avoid the constantly controversial issue of "When is it ok to actually hit the QB?"
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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I don't know if this has been said since I last replied, but Mark Shlereth is absolutely right about this. I was trying to get at this earlier but didn't say completely what I think.

Mark said it right, the NFL boosts these guys like Lott and huge hits, but fines people for the same hits. Like Mark brought up, the NFL sells a DVD of a collection of big hits, how ridiculous is that that they fine players for hits and then make a DVD collection?
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Old 10-16-2008, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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all i know is the defensive backfield of jack tatum and george atkinson of the raiders in the 70s would probably have been banned today
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Old 10-17-2008, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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I don't know if this has been said since I last replied, but Mark Shlereth is absolutely right about this. I was trying to get at this earlier but didn't say completely what I think.

Mark said it right, the NFL boosts these guys like Lott and huge hits, but fines people for the same hits. Like Mark brought up, the NFL sells a DVD of a collection of big hits, how ridiculous is that that they fine players for hits and then make a DVD collection?
Goes toward Troy's point. Everytime the league makes a decision its about money.Now, not saying thats a bad thing, because it is a business and thats what businesses are for.

The reason they're cracking down on hits is they don't want star players out. Star players draw better ratings. I'd be willing to bet that last sunday nights game has a lower rating than it would have if Brady was playing.

Now I'm not against the new "rules". Hell I dont even think they're actual rules. Just fines for whoever Goodell wants to fine. But I want consistency in the calls. I've seen Shaun Rodgers absolutley kill Big Ben and Eli after they had thrown the ball. On neither play did he get a flag or as far as I know, a fine. Then we see plays like Suggs getting flagged for barely touching Collins, hell he didn't even knock him off his feet.

The league has the right to make whatever rules they want. Their game. But they also have the responsibility to make sure they are enforced consistently, which they are not doing right now.
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Old 10-17-2008, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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so when a "kevin Everett" incident happens every 2nd game or Roy Williams goes around and breaks necks with horse collars, what do you think how many guys are going to play in 1-2 years?
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yes everett broke it on a not dirty play. but those kind of injuries will start to come if the NFL allows players to hit everyone in sight.

I mean what does it help any player just to hammer a guy who has nothing to do with the play other than maybe injuring him?
Wow, great logic. Perhaps you could back this logic up with some actual stats. Specifically, how often were these types of injuries occuring? The league has been making stricter rules to protect players for the last 3 or 4 years with helmet to helmet rules and roughing/unsportsmanlike conduct - have the incidents of these severe injuries decreased in that time span? And then we'll check back with you in 2 years to see if the random fining imposed by Goodell for insignificant hits results in a further reduction of these types of injuries.

I do know that over the last 4 years of so we certainly have not seen these injuries occur "every 2nd game" nor have we seen "Roy Williams go[ing] around and break[ing] necks." So how are these completely made up numbers even relavant to the topic?


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How bout we all just agree to put Flags and Dresses on the QB that way we avoid the constantly controversial issue of "When is it ok to actually hit the QB?"
rofl! that would rock. floral prints in team colors!
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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It's because i'm a girl, isn't it?
I never thought you were a girl, well I never thought there was a girl on this forum. Pretty stupid from my part considering I've never noticed the "Miss" part under your nickname :D

Anyway stupid fines are not the ones for horse collars and other on the field accidents, but the ones for celebrations.
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:13 PM    (permalink
awfullyquiet
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Anyway stupid fines are not the ones for horse collars and other on the field accidents, but the ones for celebrations.
Agreed. Actually, more importantly... I think it shouldn't be penalized, but fined.

I think there are a bunch of things that'll be better off being 'fines' than penalties on the field.

I also think there needs to be more suspensions...
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:36 PM    (permalink
Modano
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I also think there needs to be more suspensions...
And that would make you Miss Goodell instead of Miss NFLDC ;) Yeah, I know, bad joke.
What I find silly, for example, is that a guy can't touch the ground while celebrating a TD. TO got a 15 yards penalty for mocking Usain Bolt because he touched the ground. Yeah, veeeery offensive and disrespectful!
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:41 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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And that would make you Miss Goodell instead of Miss NFLDC ;) Yeah, I know, bad joke.
What I find silly, for example, is that a guy can't touch the ground while celebrating a TD. TO got a 15 yards penalty for mocking Usain Bolt because he touched the ground. Yeah, veeeery offensive and disrespectful!
well, they have to somehow set borders
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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well, they have to somehow set borders
Make it illegal to watch the NFL outside of america...

Aw damn. :(
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Old 10-17-2008, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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they already stopped NFL Europe :(
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:09 PM    (permalink
brat316
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They should just make it flag. So that way the multi million dollar investments don't get hurt.
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Old 10-17-2008, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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And that would make you Miss Goodell instead of Miss NFLDC ;) Yeah, I know, bad joke.
What I find silly, for example, is that a guy can't touch the ground while celebrating a TD. TO got a 15 yards penalty for mocking Usain Bolt because he touched the ground. Yeah, veeeery offensive and disrespectful!
Another great example of the No Fun League..... TD celebrations are entertaining and fans love them
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