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Old 11-06-2008, 12:37 AM    (permalink
awfullyquiet
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Default The Unfortunate Problems of the Raiders

I feel hopeful for the lions and chiefs and even the bungles...

but the raiders? i don't feel that hope.

there is no precedence for if owners destroy a franchise... what is to be done? does goodell HAVE to interceed sometime, if not soon, when? do you just let the raiders spiral into cap hell and mismanagement? or how about just let them fall into blackout land (sorry raiders fans)...

Is this situation that bad? Has there ever been a situation THIS bad? or is this simply a sign of the times overreacting?
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:39 AM    (permalink
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I think the NFL has proven that it's at the very least, cyclical. Eventually the Raiders will get around to winning again. It may not be soon, but it's a little far fetched to say that they'll never be successful. Al Davis isn't gonna be around much longer (for whatever reason you can think of), so new management should do a better job than the one that's being done right now. I'd hate to go there as an employee any time soon, though. Good luck finding a coach, Al.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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what is to be done?
Couldn't resist...
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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I feel hopeful for the lions and chiefs and even the bungles...

but the raiders? i don't feel that hope.

there is no precedence for if owners destroy a franchise... what is to be done? does goodell HAVE to interceed sometime, if not soon, when? do you just let the raiders spiral into cap hell and mismanagement? or how about just let them fall into blackout land (sorry raiders fans)...

Is this situation that bad? Has there ever been a situation THIS bad? or is this simply a sign of the times overreacting?
Isiah Thomas' 4 years in charge of the knicks in the NBA where you have gauranteed contracts was much more destructive. You just let the raiders suck until al can no longer afford to keep the team or passes on.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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I think the NFL has proven that it's at the very least, cyclical. Eventually the Raiders will get around to winning again. It may not be soon, but it's a little far fetched to say that they'll never be successful. Al Davis isn't gonna be around much longer (for whatever reason you can think of), so new management should do a better job than the one that's being done right now. I'd hate to go there as an employee any time soon, though. Good luck finding a coach, Al.
Of course it's just a matter of when?

But is it good for the league to let economics and the 'cycle' determine the 'when'?
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:52 AM    (permalink
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Of course it's just a matter of when?

But is it good for the league to let economics and the 'cycle' determine the 'when'?
Better than trying to have the fuhrer decide when without f'ing everything else up.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:53 AM    (permalink
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Better than trying to have the fuhrer decide when without f'ing everything else up.
At what point would the furher have to?

That's where i'm getting at. What's the tipping point of the absolute ridiculousness and foolishness of the franchise that it becomes a distraction as a whole to the league?
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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Of course it's just a matter of when?

But is it good for the league to let economics and the 'cycle' determine the 'when'?
I don't think it's the responsibility of the league to determine the 'when' either. Might as well remain in the middle ground and let the problem fix itself. If it gets to a point where Al Davis is embarrassing the league and clearly shows he is not competent enough to run a franchise, then that's when the league or other owners can step in. Sadly, until then, i think it's out of their hands.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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At what point would the furher have to?

That's where i'm getting at. What's the tipping point of the absolute ridiculousness and foolishness of the franchise that it becomes a distraction as a whole to the league?
There's no such point, nothing's worse than having a single person who's interests aren't tied completely to those of the organization making decisions for an organization, I don't care how wise he is if it's not his problem he won't care as much or do as well of a job.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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I disagree that the Raiders have the worst ownership. At least in the 1990s and early 2000's they had successes and made the super bowl once.

The Bengals on the other hand have had exactly ONE winning season since 1991. Since that time only 9 teams have gone 0-8, the Bengals have started 0-8 FOUR TIMES. The front office is a joke and they have done absolutely nothing in the league.

Whenever I think it sucks balls to be a Browns fan I always look to the Bengals to feel better.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:02 AM    (permalink
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Who would sign with them? Honestly, who in their right mind would sign a Free agent contract with the raiders? anyone?
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:04 AM    (permalink
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I disagree that the Raiders have the worst ownership. At least in the 1990s and early 2000's they had successes and made the super bowl once.
the bengals HAVE gotten a lot better over the past 10 years.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:06 AM    (permalink
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the bengals HAVE gotten a lot better over the past 10 years.
Meh, they got Carson Palmer and he turned out to be gold, if he had busted like a lot of their other picks the bengals would still be completely hopeless. That ownership group is just as embarassingly bad IMO.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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Meh, they got Carson Palmer and he turned out to be gold, if he had busted like a lot of their other picks the bengals would still be completely hopeless. That ownership group is just as embarassingly bad IMO.
The bengals haven't been THAT bad over the past 10 years. They've had plenty more hits than you'd believe, the problem is, their hits tend to create felonies instead of wins.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:18 AM    (permalink
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The bengals haven't been THAT bad over the past 10 years. They've had plenty more hits than you'd believe, the problem is, their hits tend to create felonies instead of wins.
Which results in quick suspensions and the burning out of promising careers and ultimately just create more failure.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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Who would sign with them? Honestly, who in their right mind would sign a Free agent contract with the raiders? anyone?
Wouldn't hurt to mainly build up through the Draft. That's how they have most of their good players now anyways.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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Don't rub it in.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:45 AM    (permalink
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For all of those that claim the Bengals haven't been that bad, think of it this way. Exactly ONE winning season since 1991. Just because you have hit on a few draft picks and had some 7-9 seasons doesn't mean a thing. That team has literally won absolutely nothing in its entire existence.
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Old 11-06-2008, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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Of course it's just a matter of when?

But is it good for the league to let economics and the 'cycle' determine the 'when'?
I guess your view would depend on if you're a socialist or a laissez faire type of person.
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Old 11-06-2008, 02:54 AM    (permalink
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I guess your view would depend on if you're a socialist or a laissez faire type of person.
Since the salary cap and free agency have been introduced the league has strived for parity - No dynastys, no perpetual bottom feeders, a new super bowl winner every year. It isn't in the best interest for the league to have the money sort itself out. A competitive NFL is a profitable NFL.

However, the way the system is set up there is not much more they can do. They have already introduced the salary cap and revenue sharing. They cannot remove an owner unless something crazy happens.
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:07 AM    (permalink
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Isiah Thomas' 4 years in charge of the knicks in the NBA where you have gauranteed contracts was much more destructive. You just let the raiders suck until al can no longer afford to keep the team or passes on.
you act like the knicks are actually going to stop sucking
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:11 AM    (permalink
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you act like the knicks are actually going to stop sucking
hey we might be competitive by 2011. Chandler's looking good, I like Gallo under mike D and nate's a great 6th man for the pace we want to play, hopefully by then we'll be rid of everyone else and have found some people to fill in around them *prays for Ricky Rick*
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:20 AM    (permalink
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I disagree that the Raiders have the worst ownership. At least in the 1990s and early 2000's they had successes and made the super bowl once.

The Bengals on the other hand have had exactly ONE winning season since 1991. Since that time only 9 teams have gone 0-8, the Bengals have started 0-8 FOUR TIMES. The front office is a joke and they have done absolutely nothing in the league.

Whenever I think it sucks balls to be a Browns fan I always look to the Bengals to feel better.

Raiders didnt have success in the 90s ..... bengals are bad too but raiders by no means have had success other then the few years gruden had them here is what i posted in the raider team section earlier this week.

Last 20 years win loss records.

1988 7-9 (3rd in Division) Shanahan
1989 8-8 (3rd in Division) Shanahan/Shell
1990 12-4(1st in Division)* Shell
1991 9-7 (3rd in Division) Shell
1992 7-9 (4th in Division) Shell
1993 10-6(2nd in Division)* Shell
1994 9-7 (3rd in Division) Shell
1995 8-8 (last in Division) White
1996 7-9 (4th in Division) White
1997 4-12 (4th in Division) Bugel
1998 8-8 (2nd in Division) Gruden
1999 8-8 (4th in Division) Gruden
2000 12-4 (1st in Division)* Gruden
2001 10-6 (1st in Division)* Gruden
2002 11-5 (1st in Division)* Callahan
2003 4-12 (3rd in Division) Callahan
2004 5-11 (last in Division) Turner
2005 4-12 (last in Division) Turner
2006 2-14 (last in Division) Shell
2007 4-12 (last in Division) Kiffin
2008 2-6 Kiffin/Cable


in 20 years had 9 coaching changes, combined w/l % (.484%) 5 Playoff appearances and average aft west standing of 3rd place now this is a team that in the 70s and early 80s had the best winning % in football and won 3 sb rings..... the truth is that this problem started long time ago and it finally showed its ugly face to the nfl. AL has been destroying this franchise slowly but surely and seems to have ran its last lap ....... raiders legacy and history will always be tarnished due to what Al has been doing to this team for the past 20 years.
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:43 AM    (permalink
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cardinals got that beat by alot

88 Stallings 7-9
89 Stallings/Kulhmann 5-11
90 Bugel 5-11
91 Bugel 4-12
92 Bugel 4-12
93 Bugel 7-9
94 Ryan 8-8
95 Ryan 4-12
96 Tobin 7-9
97 Tobin 4-12
98 Tobin 9-7*
99 Tobin 6-10
00 Tobin/McGinnis 3-13
01 McGinnis 7-9
02 McGinnis 5-11
03 McGinnis 4-12
04 Green 6-10
05 Green 5-11
06 Green 5-11
07 Whisenhunt 8-8
08 Whisenhunt 5-3
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:33 AM    (permalink
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cardinals trump bengals
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