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Old 11-07-2008, 01:59 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
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Originally Posted by SuperKevin View Post
I just watched it in slo-mo on Sportscenter and you can see Tuck pulls his hand out to brace himself before they hit the turf. Doesn't sound like he just let his weight flop on Bollinger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GnOWxHveMw

Watch from :31 on, and tell me if extending his arm slightly stopped him from getting his noodle rocked on the ground.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Solution..

Can we put Flags on the QB? You get Fined or Flag for any hit, sometimes both.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller View Post
So why do QB's have way more official protection than the rest of the players in the league?

I just don't get the difference between hitting a QB Squarely and knocking him down as he throws or right 1 step after he throws. Or a RB Running a sweep.



And I'd like to Mention Roethlisberger has only gotten 1 roughing the passer call when I see the rest of these hits he should have had atleast 10.
Because a Quarterback's first priority is to throw the ball, and as he's throwing the ball he's more susceptible to injury from a hit than a runningback with the ball in his hands, knowing that he's gonna be hit soon and bracing himself for the hit. What the hell is wrong with you? It's not that hard to understand.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Because a Quarterback's first priority is to throw the ball, and as he's throwing the ball he's more susceptible to injury from a hit than a runningback with the ball in his hands, knowing that he's gonna be hit soon and bracing himself for the hit. What the hell is wrong with you? It's not that hard to understand.
Exactly, this isn't that hard of a concept to get. That and offense = money. And QB = star of offense. So, therefore, for the NFL, QB's = money.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GnOWxHveMw

Watch from :31 on, and tell me if extending his arm slightly stopped him from getting his noodle rocked on the ground.
You said he picked up and drove him to the ground. Tuck just wrapped him up and went straight through.

What they need to do is invent a device that allows a defender to stop a tackle in mid air so he can not land on the QB.

I mean. Even the announcers, who are usually fighting to the teeth for Rights of the QB are just appalled by the call.

Tuck got flagged for a textbook tackle.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Bollinger was slightly elevated and Tuck bulldozed through him and took him into the ground. While making a throw. What don't you understand?
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Yes, Tuck does use his hand to prevent fully landing on him. That hit could have been A LOT worse.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
Because a Quarterback's first priority is to throw the ball, and as he's throwing the ball he's more susceptible to injury from a hit than a runningback with the ball in his hands, knowing that he's gonna be hit soon and bracing himself for the hit. What the hell is wrong with you? It's not that hard to understand.
You're right, a Quarterbacks first instinct is to throw the ball. How novice.

My point is, when a QB steps up to throw, He sees the Pressure coming, and knows he's going to get hit.


It's part of the freaking game. Why not just outlaw tackling the QB and do 2 hand tag.


MY point being. If you can't tackle him textbook or otherwise without putting out a pillow and a blanket. Devise some other way for Defenders to earn their paychecks.

Getting fined for sacks that had no flags and getting flagged for sacks on textbooks tackles is beyond moronic.

If you can't tackle the Quarterback, come up with some other friggin' mechanic that actually allows the defense to play.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Yes, Tuck does use his hand to prevent fully landing on him. That hit could have been A LOT worse.
The damage was done regardless. Had he gone at him just a tad bit faster, Bollinger's head would have just ping-ponged off the grass.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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The damage was done regardless. Had he gone at him just a tad bit faster, Bollinger's head would have just ping-ponged off the grass.
So what are you saying? Tuck was rightfully penalized because he didn't go as hard as he could?
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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MS17, if it was DeMarcus Ware making the same hit on Eli Manning would you have the same opinion?
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Bollinger was slightly elevated and Tuck bulldozed through him and took him into the ground. While making a throw. What don't you understand?
I understand that.

For sake of you repeating yourself endlessly because you think you're so smart.

MY POINT IS:

IF EVERY GOD DAMN SACK IS A PF... COME UP WITH A NEW WAY SO DEFENDERS CAN ACTUALLY STOP A PLAY.

Whether it be flags or 2 hand touch. Players getting fined because the QB's "Health" is in question is a joke.

If there is no rule that you can't tackle a QB, then you get fined after the game for tackling a QB "too Rough" without really providing another solution as to how to fix the problem, you shouldn't be fining people or throwing flags?


Now what part of that dont' you get?
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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The damage was done regardless. Had he gone at him just a tad bit faster, Bollinger's head would have just ping-ponged off the grass.
Is it his fault for doing his job and tackling the guy? You should fine every lineman whose responsibility it was to block that guy on certain plays if you fine a guy for tackling the quarterback.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Is it his fault for doing his job and tackling the guy? You should fine every lineman whose responsibility it was to block that guy on certain plays if you fine a guy for tackling the quarterback.
Forget it. Even though there's 4 guys providing reasons why it should not be illegal, Metsox17 will continue to put his fingers in his ears and scream..

"LALALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU"..

Because he doesn't want to be wrong.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:21 PM    (permalink
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So what are you saying? Tuck was rightfully penalized because he didn't go as hard as he could?
No, he was rightfully penalized because of the way he tackled Bollinger. It's in the rules, and you've admitted to it already, so what exactly are we arguing?

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MS17, if it was DeMarcus Ware making the same hit on Eli Manning would you have the same opinion?
I'm insulted that you would even bring this up
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I understand that.

For sake of you repeating yourself endlessly because you think you're so smart.

MY POINT IS:

IF EVERY GOD DAMN SACK IS A PF... COME UP WITH A NEW WAY SO DEFENDERS CAN ACTUALLY STOP A PLAY.

Whether it be flags or 2 hand touch. Players getting fined because the QB's "Health" is in question is a joke.

If there is no rule that you can't tackle a QB, then you get fined after the game for tackling a QB "too Rough" without really providing another solution as to how to fix the problem, you shouldn't be fining people or throwing flags?


Now what part of that dont' you get?
There are plenty of ways of hitting the quarterback. If you're too dumb to either understand or follow the said rules, you deserve to be fined.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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No, he was rightfully penalized because of the way he tackled Bollinger. It's in the rules, and you've admitted to it already, so what exactly are we arguing?


I'm insulted that you would even bring this up


There are plenty of ways of hitting the quarterback. If you're too dumb to either understand or follow the said rules, you deserve to be fined.
Too bad the rules don't dictate all scenarios.

The rules almost act like you have to hit them in a perfect scenario (IE no blockers). But the fact is, you can never contemplate pre-snap or in motion how you're going to tackle him. The fact is one the play starts all I know is the player is going to do everything to get his hand on the quarterback and put him on the ground.

This is the official text of the NFL Playbook on roughing the Passer.

Quote:

1. By interpretation, a pass begins when the passer -- with possession of ball -- starts to bring his hand forward. If ball strikes ground after this action has begun, play is ruled an incomplete pass. If passer loses control of ball prior to his bringing his hand forward, play is ruled a fumble.
2. When a passer is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional movement forward of his arm starts a forward pass. If a defensive player contacts the passer or the ball after forward movement begins, and the ball leaves the passerís hand, a forward pass is ruled, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player.
3. No defensive player may run into a passer of a legal forward pass after the ball has left his hand (15 yards). The Referee must determine whether opponent had a reasonable chance to stop his momentum during an attempt to block the pass or tackle the passer while he still had the ball.
4. No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction.
5. Officials are to blow the play dead as soon as the quarterback is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler, and his safety is in jeopardy.


3. No defensive player may run into a passer of a legal forward pass after the ball has left his hand (15 yards). The Referee must determine whether opponent had a reasonable chance to stop his momentum during an attempt to block the pass or tackle the passer while he still had the ball.

As part as #4 and #3... The hit was not Flagrant attempt to injure, nor could he stop his momentum. Nor did he pick up and "Drive" to the ground.


Refute please.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Jerred Allen fined for his hit on Shaub.

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Old 11-07-2008, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Watch the video. When Bollinger releases the ball is a split second before Tuck makes contact. After the contact, Tuck takes two steps with his shoulder/facemask in his chest, and lands with all his weight on him. It's a textbook tackle if it's in the open field. But it's a quarterback getting rid of the ball in the pocket, not Brian Westbrook running a toss.
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The Referee must determine whether opponent had a reasonable chance to stop his momentum during an attempt to block the pass or tackle the passer while he still had the ball.
Already did, buddy.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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QBs are unprotected against hits more often than not. I would think that is why they protect them more but you are seeing more flags when RBs/TEs/WRs get hit by a defender leading with thier helmet as well, so its not just the QB.

I see where you are coming from, and I don't refute it in the least. You disagree with where the game is headed, I understand. I'm just saying that you need to know why this is happening.
I should matter that QBs are unproteced, it part of the position and all QBs know that. The league is making guys think twice about hitting QBs, which sucks it's FOOTBALL, it's a violent game. QBs are football players too just like everyone else and i hate these p**** A** calls that are being called now. If a guy clearly hits a QB late then they should throw the flag 100% of the time but if the QB gets hit right as he's realesing the ball and then the refs throw the flag i have a huge problem with that. Like I said before it's a violent game and getting hit is apart of the game and a lot of the hits that players are getting fined for, is just the league being rediculous.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Jerred Allen fined for his hit on Shaub.

http://blogs.startribune.com/vikingsblog/
I'm on the fence on this one.

By rule I'd have to agree with the fine, He came in low and hit without assistance of the OL.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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Already did, buddy.
Right, so 282lb+ Tuck is going to stop on a dime in mid tackle.

He has less agility than you give him credit for.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Right, so 282lb+ Tuck is going to stop on a dime in mid tackle.

He has less agility than you give him credit for.
No, but he had no intention of stopping either. Bollinger was getting rid of the ball as Tuck hit him, yet he still drove two steps and landed on top of him with an arm wrapped around.

It sure as hell didn't seem like he WANTED to stop.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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No, but he had no intention of stopping either. Bollinger was getting rid of the ball as Tuck hit him, yet he still drove two steps and landed on top of him with an arm wrapped around.

It sure as hell didn't seem like he WANTED to stop.
1) Now you're assuming what Tuck was thinking.

2) Tuck by rule doesn't have to stop. His momentum was going forward, he hit within a reasonable time frame, and he didn't lift to drive/Intent to flagrantly injure.

If Tuck somehow stops on a dime, and Bollinger didn't throw the ball, He runs away from Tuck vintage VY on Kiwi.

Tuck did 0 wrong, stop trying to twist the rule. There is nothing in those rules that says it's an illegal hit.

It was intent to tackle, not injure.

The question you have to ask.. if Bollinger didn't get rid of the ball, would you still say it's Roughing the passer?

It's not.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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1) Now you're assuming what Tuck was thinking.

2) Tuck by rule doesn't have to stop. His momentum was going forward, he hit within a reasonable time frame, and he didn't lift to drive/Intent to flagrantly injure.

If Tuck somehow stops on a dime, and Bollinger didn't throw the ball, He runs away from Tuck vintage VY on Kiwi.

Tuck did 0 wrong, stop trying to twist the rule. There is nothing in those rules that says it's an illegal hit.

It was intent to tackle, not injure.

The question you have to ask.. if Bollinger didn't get rid of the ball, would you still say it's Roughing the passer?

It's not.
I don't care if his intent was to tackle, if he gets injured as a result, it doesn't take away from the injury. Obviously the NFL agrees with the way i see it, and all you can do is whine and moan, so get the hell over it. I'm done with this.
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Old 11-07-2008, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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I don't care if his intent was to tackle, if he gets injured as a result, it doesn't take away from the injury. Obviously the NFL agrees with the way i see it, and all you can do is whine and moan, so get the hell over it. I'm done with this.
So any tackle that "Could" result in injury should result in a flag? I'm not whining and moaning.

Just asking when will we get back to real football.

No, You agree with the way the NFL is seeing it, which isn't agreeing with their definitions of the rules. They should update their rulebook or stop calling the ******** calls.
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