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View Poll Results: Who will be better?
Matt Ryan 96 75.00%
Joe Flacco 32 25.00%
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
Ryan under-threw Jenkins in that deep pass that put them at the three
The CB was ahead of him. Looked like a back-shoulder throw to me.
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Can we at least agree that Brian Brohm=Epic Fail?
hasnt he been hurt?
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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Flacco's deep ball is so pretty. He has really let it lose the past 3 weeks. But honestly even if Ryan is better, the fact the Ravens might have a QB for the first time in franchise history, is exciting. Too bad Ray Lew had to wait so long. Ray Lew was beastly again btw, 2 INT's, 8 tackles.
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
Indeed. And I see nothing to suggest that Joe Flacco will be better than Matt Ryan. He's not in a better situation, he's not really all that more gifted, and Matt Ryan has adjusted faster to the NFL.
Him not being in a better situation only further values what he has shown this year. Like i stated earlier, he's made the biggest adjustments and has looked very well. Whether his team prevents him from ever developing fully is still to be seen, but up and down he's a better prospect than Matt Ryan, when taking away "intangibles" (i hate that word, but it's the only one that is known for defining what it does).
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP View Post
Flacco's deep ball is so pretty. He has really let it lose the past 3 weeks. But honestly even if Ryan is better, the fact the Ravens might have a QB for the first time in franchise history, is exciting. Too bad Ray Lew had to wait so long. Ray Lew was beastly again btw, 2 INT's, 8 tackles.
yeah. these guys are huge for their teams. to think the falcons might have back to back winning seasons by possibly next year is mind boggling.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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hasnt he been hurt?
No he has just not been very good so far but this is only his first year. So I don't know how you can say that "Brohm=epic fail" Brent?
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
The CB was ahead of him. Looked like a back-shoulder throw to me.
Good try, but i don't think that was it. I agree that it ended best because he under-threw the ball, but that doesn't mean it was scripted that way. Usually when a ball is under-thrown, the WR has a better chance at making a play on it most of the time.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JBond93 View Post
I was a huge Ryan fan pre-draft. Now, they are pretty close. Sure, Ryan has done more, but he has had more offense to work with. Flacco has had more defense.

Can we at least agree that Brian Brohm=Epic Fail?
Um, no. A rookie QB behind a young QB? Um, no.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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Um, no. A rookie QB behind a young QB? Um, no.
Fail as in, you wasted a second round pick on a guy that will most likely never be your franchise quarterback.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Him not being in a better situation only further values what he has shown this year. Like i stated earlier, he's made the biggest adjustments and has looked very well. Whether his team prevents him from ever developing fully is still to be seen, but up and down he's a better prospect than Matt Ryan, when taking away "intangibles" (i hate that word, but it's the only one that is known for defining what it does).
Intangibles are something a lot of evaluators do not like, but they sure do help.

And everyone talks so much about Matt Ryan's supporting cast. I'll say this: if Ben Roethlisberger was at quarterback we would have allowed 30 sacks by now. Matt Ryan does an amazing job of getting the ball off. He pushes the safties back with his vertical passing game. Coming into the year he had one good receiver, him being Roddy White. Jenkins was viewed as a bust, Douglas as a draft reach. Laurent Robinson hasn't played much at all. Our tight ends are average at best.

Simply put, Matt Ryan makes his supporting cast look a lot better than it really is.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Fail as in, you wasted a second round pick on a guy that will most likely never be your franchise quarterback.
I doubt Green Bay expected Rodgers to be as good as he's been.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Hopefully the Ravens stop asking Todd Heap to block so much and let him be more of a receiver, then if they could just find a legit #1 option at WR who can really stretch the field, Mason is solid but they need that guy of the future that Matty Ice has.


I certainly don't think that makes Ryan better because he's adjusted faster, who didn't know that coming in?
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
Him not being in a better situation only further values what he has shown this year. Like i stated earlier, he's made the biggest adjustments and has looked very well. Whether his team prevents him from ever developing fully is still to be seen, but up and down he's a better prospect than Matt Ryan, when taking away "intangibles" (i hate that word, but it's the only one that is known for defining what it does).
When comparing the players, why would you "take away" anything? Jeff George was a better prospects than Joe Montana when you discount "intangibles".

I don't care if someone thinks Flacco will ultimately be better, but I don't see a shred of evidence suggesting as much.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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Him not being in a better situation only further values what he has shown this year. Like i stated earlier, he's made the biggest adjustments and has looked very well. Whether his team prevents him from ever developing fully is still to be seen, but up and down he's a better prospect than Matt Ryan, when taking away "intangibles" (i hate that word, but it's the only one that is known for defining what it does).
You can't just take away the "intangibles" part of a prospect. Its what differentiates Peyton Manning from Ryan Leaf. More important than how far you can throw downfield is how you respond to pressure situations, lead a team, decisions you make. Ryan has one huge leg up on Flacco in those regards.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Fail as in, you wasted a second round pick on a guy that will most likely never be your franchise quarterback.
We didn't draft Brohm with the intent of him being our franchise QB. If he can develop in to a solid backup I see no way that the pick we spent on him is a waste.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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Intangibles are something a lot of evaluators do not like, but they sure do help.

And everyone talks so much about Matt Ryan's supporting cast. I'll say this: if Ben Roethlisberger was at quarterback we would have allowed 30 sacks by now. Matt Ryan does an amazing job of getting the ball off. He pushes the safties back with his vertical passing game. Coming into the year he had one good receiver, him being Roddy White. Jenkins was viewed as a bust, Douglas as a draft reach. Laurent Robinson hasn't played much at all. Our tight ends are average at best.

Simply put, Matt Ryan makes his supporting cast look a lot better than it really is.
Roethlisberger would take 30 sacks because he wears glue on his gloves when in the pocket. I'm not taking anything away from Matt Ryan, but Joe Flacco dreams of the day he can play with someone of Roddy White's caliber. The running game is a wash, but even Michael Jenkins is making some pretty good plays for them.

What i'm impressed with Flacco is his physical ability and the adjustments he has made coming from his program (stating this for the third time). Seeing that, i feel that should the Ravens bring some decent WR's for him, he'll be a very good quarterback, and ultimately better than Matt Ryan.

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When comparing the players, why would you "take away" anything? Jeff George was a better prospects than Joe Montana when you discount "intangibles".

I don't care if someone thinks Flacco will ultimately be better, but I don't see a shred of evidence suggesting as much.
Okay.

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I doubt Green Bay expected Rodgers to be as good as he's been.
That's why it's a failed experiment now.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:10 PM    (permalink
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We didn't draft Brohm with the intent of him being our franchise QB. If he can develop in to a solid backup I see no way that the pick we spent on him is a waste.
When is the last time someone spent a second rounder on a quarterback with the intention of him being a serviceable backup?
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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Roethlisberger would take 30 sacks because he wears glue on his gloves when in the pocket. I'm not taking anything away from Matt Ryan, but Joe Flacco dreams of the day he can play with someone of Roddy White's caliber. The running game is a wash, but even Michael Jenkins is making some pretty good plays for them.

What i'm impressed with Flacco is his physical ability and the adjustments he has made coming from his program (stating this for the third time). Seeing that, i feel that should the Ravens bring some decent WR's for him, he'll be a very good quarterback, and ultimately better than Matt Ryan.



Okay.



That's why it's a failed experiment now.
Flacco has a deeper receiving core, a better offensive line, and a better tight end. The only thing Matt Ryan has above him is a better running game and a number one receiver.

Their surroundings are a wash and, unlike Flacco, Ryan has to pass and lead his team to victory often.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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We didn't draft Brohm with the intent of him being our franchise QB. If he can develop in to a solid backup I see no way that the pick we spent on him is a waste.
I disagree. I hope for the sake of your franchise that you drafted Brohm as an insurance policy rather than a career back up.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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You can't just take away the "intangibles" part of a prospect. Its what differentiates Peyton Manning from Ryan Leaf. More important than how far you can throw downfield is how you respond to pressure situations, lead a team, decisions you make. Ryan has one huge leg up on Flacco in those regards.
I'm not undervaluing "intangibles". I'm conceding that Ryan leads by leaps and bounds in that category, but Flacco is a more talented player. Let's not short-change Flacco either. He has been very good, and has put his team in a position to succeed after jumping from Delaware in a spread to the NFL.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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When is the last time someone spent a second rounder on a quarterback with the intention of him being a serviceable backup?
The Falcons spent a high third on Matt Schaub for just that reason.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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Flacco has a deeper receiving core, a better offensive line, and a better tight end. The only thing Matt Ryan has above him is a better running game and a number one receiver.

Their surroundings are a wash and, unlike Flacco, Ryan has to pass and lead his team to victory often.
I'll take Roddy White and Michael Jenkins any and every day over Derrick Mason and Mark Clayton. Up until today, Todd Heap was invisible in that offense.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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The Falcons spent a high third on Matt Schaub for just that reason.
Well being #56 is a lot different from being #90.

And the Falcons turned that into two second round picks, so they're good.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Roddy White and Michael Jenkins any and every day over Derrick Mason and Mark Clayton. Up until today, Todd Heap was invisible in that offense.
Heap most likely still has a huge advantage on Justin Peele and Ben Hartsock.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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Heap most likely still has a huge advantage on Justin Peele and Ben Hartsock.
Not saying he doesn't, but what good is Heap if he's not being used. You can't put that on Flacco.
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