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Old 11-24-2008, 06:33 AM    (permalink
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Default Off-season plan:

Hire Scott Pioli: Clean House down to the ticket collectors and ushers. Sell the damn franchise to Ilitch or somebody who gives a damn.

Pursue Free Agents
Karlos Dansby SOLB
Jason Brown OC

Draft
Michael Oher LT
Greg Hardy DE
Brandon Spikes MLB
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Old 11-24-2008, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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i like that draft. i want kurt warner too
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Default

i would love to address the front 7 on defense so i like Spikes and i like Dansby if we are able to persuade him to Detroit. If we are able to get Hardy and Oher as well i would love that draft. As of right now Oher is not the top OT so it may be Monroe or someone else instead, but that's the same idea IMO. Im a firm believe that solidifying the front 7, and addressing the Oline should be our goals in the off season. It allows us to set a foundation and build from their. A solid Oline and front seven is crucial. We have our WR's in place with CJ and quite possibly our RB in place with Smith. Continue with DanO and stanton as QB. Let culpepper go he is due too much money.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Unfortunately, it is all a pipe dream. WCF will continue to own the team Our GM will very likely be Mayhew. And Ford will never allow a house cleaning and Mayhew will never attempt it while WCF owns the team.
Welcome to the Detroit Lions!!!
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...lions/?cnn=yes

From everything I'm hearing around the league grapevine, Lions chairman and owner William Clay Ford appears content to let the team's executive vice president/COO Tom Lewand shape the early stages of the search for a new general manager/team president. And there's some buzz that Lewand would be most comfortable with either current Lions general manager Martin Mayhew -- who was elevated from assistant GM once Millen was fired -- or Philadelphia Eagles general manager Tom Heckert, who has old ties to Michigan and has known Lewand's family for years.

There we go.. trying to hire friends again. Just to stay content and comfortable.. Let the games get blacked out.. Let us go 0-16.. as long as the executives are comfortable.
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:00 AM    (permalink
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Default

I like Oher better any other tackle right now. Of course a guy like Kropog might be a better option but I think with the proper motivation Oher will be the best in this class. Your other options are reaches or QB. Who else wouldn't be a reach? Orakpo DE, Curry OLB and Spikes MLB
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Default

only way we take curry is if marinelli is gone and the tampa 2 is scratched.
What about a CB? jenkins would be agood addition to the team if we are focused on defense.

1a. Jenkins
1b. BA DE
2. Spikes
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Old 11-26-2008, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Default

i think the bast way to go would be
1a. Oher, Smith or Monroe
1b. Hardy
2a. Spikes
3. Best available DT
as said above.
after that i wouldnt mind us package a 3rd and a 4th or both our 3rds for another second and try to get duke robinson. If we are able to add 2 starters on our oline and a great DE and MLB i think we would walk away with a great draft class.
Oline: Oher-backus-raiola-robinson-cherilous
Dline- white- redding- ?- hardy
LB- Dizon- Spikes- Sims

we'd be very young in some very important positions and we would have to accept the fact that we are rebuilding but filling these positions now and getting a year down with these guys would allow us to take a QB next year put him behind a pretty good Oline and having a solid front seven in place. In order to get Robinson we might have to give up both 3rds to move up high in the second but i'd be fine with that. We have the ammo to move around a lot. If we use both 3rds to move into the second than we can use our late round pick to move back into the 3rd easily.
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:08 PM    (permalink
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Andre Smith, Greg Hardy, and Brandon Spikes would be a phenomenal draft as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lions WMD View Post
Andre Smith, Greg Hardy, and Brandon Spikes would be a phenomenal draft as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah. I'm thinking Stafford will be that top pick though.

I just think the Lions view Backus as a decent enough starter to not think they have to address LT.

I think if there's a new head coach next year, we'll take the QB and start it all over.
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Old 11-26-2008, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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Has Backus shown anything, at all, to anybody, that would make them think he's even half decent at LT? The players around him have changed over the years, but one thing has remained consistent.. Backus has always sucked.
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Old 11-27-2008, 06:53 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lions WMD View Post
Andre Smith, Greg Hardy, and Brandon Spikes would be a phenomenal draft as far as I'm concerned.
Unfortunately, Hardy has some serious off field issues and if Spikes declares, he'll never make it out of round 1. The positions are fine but the names may change.
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Old 11-27-2008, 06:56 AM    (permalink
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Has Backus shown anything, at all, to anybody, that would make them think he's even half decent at LT? The players around him have changed over the years, but one thing has remained consistent.. Backus has always sucked.
Well under Millen pretty well all the Lion players have sucked. Maybe it's hard to modivate players who see this organization for the mess it is.
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Old 11-27-2008, 07:39 AM    (permalink
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Unfortunately, Hardy has some serious off field issues and if Spikes declares, he'll never make it out of round 1. The positions are fine but the names may change.
Make it Spikes with the Dallas pick, and take a DE, or better yet, a DT at the top of Rd. 2.
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Old 11-27-2008, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Make it Spikes with the Dallas pick, and take a DE, or better yet, a DT at the top of Rd. 2.
or use the extra picks you have and move around. I feel like we could get one of the top 3 MLBs at 33. If not then Id say take one at our second dallas pick. But i really believe that we need to take a DE this year. Michael Johnson looks like he's falling along with hardy who is amazing (yes i know character concerns) along with selvie and many others. De is crucial for us and i really think we needs to address it. I thnk that if we are able to get a OT DE and MLB in our first 3 picks it would be a successful draft. DT i also think is very important but i'd want to get that in the 3rd along with a OG.

Lets be real we are most likely drafting in the top 10 next year and if we are able to build our oline and our defense this year we would be in a great position to add a QB next year and have him be successful
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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or use the extra picks you have and move around. I feel like we could get one of the top 3 MLBs at 33. If not then Id say take one at our second dallas pick. But i really believe that we need to take a DE this year. Michael Johnson looks like he's falling along with hardy who is amazing (yes i know character concerns) along with selvie and many others. De is crucial for us and i really think we needs to address it. I thnk that if we are able to get a OT DE and MLB in our first 3 picks it would be a successful draft. DT i also think is very important but i'd want to get that in the 3rd along with a OG.

Lets be real we are most likely drafting in the top 10 next year and if we are able to build our oline and our defense this year we would be in a great position to add a QB next year and have him be successful

I'm not questioning the positions one bit from a need point of view, I just prefer Stafford if he's ranked high enough. I don't want to be watching Stafford being a huge star for the next decade on some other team that wins a few SB's. I don't think I could take it.
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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Default The only problem drafting Stafford

is... well it's two-fold: He will be the second piece in the puzzle and might get ruined having to start right away and by watching his play, he has not elevated the play of those around him like the great ones do. If you take the wrong guy it can set you back five years. Oher and Smith do not set you back. They are safe picks but the Lions are looking to hit it out of the park.

I can see trying to get Orakpo, Curry and Spikes with the first three

or

Jenkins, Hardy and Spikes.

And for anyone worried about Marinelli and the Tampa 2 defense being here next year, come on, do you really think there is any possibility he remains? Even after the Turkey Day trouncing at the hands of the Titans, really?
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:37 PM    (permalink
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my feeling about stafford is that he may become a star but on this team he cannot become a star. Look at what the titans did to our oline. Noone could have done anything for us today they were in the backfield all day. Thats why i feel like if we set it up this year for a QB to actually succeed we can then take our franchise QB next year and can actually succeed. All it takes IMO is a top LT. Therefore we move backus inside to OG and have the other guard up to competition between who we have right now. This would be a very solid Oline IMO. Plus we are able to add to our front 7 and therefore we might not actually be terrible in every aspect on defense. Adding a LB DE and DT are huge. If we establish our front seven then we can deal with the terrible secondary we have. We also have a chance to add to our secondary thru FA
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Old 11-28-2008, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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my feeling about stafford is that he may become a star but on this team he cannot become a star. Look at what the titans did to our oline. Noone could have done anything for us today they were in the backfield all day. Thats why i feel like if we set it up this year for a QB to actually succeed we can then take our franchise QB next year and can actually succeed. All it takes IMO is a top LT. Therefore we move backus inside to OG and have the other guard up to competition between who we have right now. This would be a very solid Oline IMO. Plus we are able to add to our front 7 and therefore we might not actually be terrible in every aspect on defense. Adding a LB DE and DT are huge. If we establish our front seven then we can deal with the terrible secondary we have. We also have a chance to add to our secondary thru FA
The only problem with that philosophy is that you don't know what will happen next year. Will there be a franchise QB in next year's draft? Will Detroit draft high enough to get him?
The QB's who flop didn't do it because their teams rushed them. The great QB's have the ability to completely forget the last play, get up and go on as if nothing had happened. QB's who flop simply lack the mental toughness to do it.
We have a unique opportunity to draft a franchise QB in Stafford, that comes around maybe once every 20 years for a team. What if Indy passed on Peyton so they could get their team to be better. What if the Giants didn't trade up for Eli? What if Pittsburgh waited and passed on Roethlisberger? You don't wait or you never see the light of day! Certainly Atlanta and Baltimore could have used your reasoning and where would they be if they had?
Oh yeah, Neither NE, Indy, the Giants, Tennessee or Pittsburgh have a #1 draft pick playing LT so what makes you think we simply must draft one with the 1st overall pick.
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by weasel View Post
is... well it's two-fold: He will be the second piece in the puzzle and might get ruined having to start right away and by watching his play, he has not elevated the play of those around him like the great ones do. If you take the wrong guy it can set you back five years. Oher and Smith do not set you back. They are safe picks but the Lions are looking to hit it out of the park.

I can see trying to get Orakpo, Curry and Spikes with the first three

or

Jenkins, Hardy and Spikes.

And for anyone worried about Marinelli and the Tampa 2 defense being here next year, come on, do you really think there is any possibility he remains? Even after the Turkey Day trouncing at the hands of the Titans, really?
I am personally rooting for the Lions to draft one of the great LTs, but we all need to be reallistic.

If we draft a QB at #1 then hopefully he will sit at least 1 yr behind Stanton/C-Pep/Orlovsky/Henson or whoever is here. A college QB coming to the pros, especially Stafford or Bradford will more than likely HAVE to sit a year to be able to adjust. Bradford needs to adjust into a pro-style o that isnt run out of the shotgun and Stafford needs to learn how to set his feet and not throw off his back foot(yes I know his O-line is horrendous but so is ours). But have the tools to suceed, but will need some time to tweak some things.

I really hope we get Oher, but we do not know if Smith or Oher are safe picks. Anybody that has read "The Blindside" knows the exact risk Oher brings to the table. Smith has had problems with weight in the past and I know he has somewhat got it under control for this year, but it's probably a "paycheck year" I personally think he's got great tools and is super talented, but I wonder if he'll ba able to keep his a** out of the buffett lines. We've had weighty guys here before and how did that work out?

That being said I hope we can get a team from the top 5 to switch picks with us, give us an extra 2nd at least and then we can get BPA not named Crabtree. That could lead us to Smith, Bradford, Oher, Stafford, Orakpo, Curry, or god knows who else.

I know it's wishful thinking that we'll be able to trade down a couple of spots, but IMO it's a potentially deep class at the top prospects (or elite, but it's too early for that word) and if we can plug ANY of them in and get another high draft pick we need to take it.

We could end up with a draft of Oher, Johnson, Lauranitis, and Perry with a little luck and still have 2 3rds for a OG, Big RB, CB, WR/RS or whatever we find as a good value which will fill a need (every position is a need)!
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
The only problem with that philosophy is that you don't know what will happen next year. Will there be a franchise QB in next year's draft? Will Detroit draft high enough to get him?
The QB's who flop didn't do it because their teams rushed them. The great QB's have the ability to completely forget the last play, get up and go on as if nothing had happened. QB's who flop simply lack the mental toughness to do it.
We have a unique opportunity to draft a franchise QB in Stafford, that comes around maybe once every 20 years for a team. What if Indy passed on Peyton so they could get their team to be better. What if the Giants didn't trade up for Eli? What if Pittsburgh waited and passed on Roethlisberger? You don't wait or you never see the light of day! Certainly Atlanta and Baltimore could have used your reasoning and where would they be if they had?
Oh yeah, Neither NE, Indy, the Giants, Tennessee or Pittsburgh have a #1 draft pick playing LT so what makes you think we simply must draft one with the 1st overall pick.

No offense but I'm getting sick of this argument. Yes NE does not have a LT that was a 1st, but they also don't have a QB that was higher than a 3rd either, so in my eyes it's a moot point. They develop players, we have not been able so no more NE talk. Light was the 16th pick of the 2nd round in 2001, the LT position is much highly valued now so in todays world he might have had a much higher draft position. Brady and Cassell were a little lower draft picks if we can remember.

If the Giants didnt trade up than they'd have Rivers, Merriman, and Kaeding 3 pro bowlers so wow. And yes I think that Rivers could have won that superbowl with that team and coaching. Diehl was a 5th round G, so thats a great story with great success, but he wasn't able to start in yr 1 which is what we need.

Indy won a Superbowl under Tarik Glenn who was a 1st round pick the year before Peyton got there. Now they have Ugoh who they traded a future 1st for because they said they had Ugoh as a mid 1st round grade and viewed him as a much better prospect than what they had seen from the next years crop of LTs (San Fran did the same the same yr.) Too me that shows that Indy believes in 1st round LTs, they've spent 2 1sts on the past two that they've had. So Indy should be a moot point, IMO.

Tennessee has used Michael Roos as their LT, he was a high 2nd from Eastern Washigton who many believed to be a 1st round grade, but from a small school needed a yr or two to transition to the league. Their 1st round QB is riding the pine as a nut job, though he did play well against us, but VY's family has publicly stated that he has had too much trouble mentally with coping of being a top 5 picks and dealing with those pressures because he needed time to adjust to the pros. I hope he can figure things out because he seems like a great guy and great QB. Yes, Collins was a top 10 QB, but not with any of his last 3 teams, which there is a reason for that!

Pitt uses Marvel Smith at LT and everybody that I've read expect to see Pitt rectify that position with a top draft choice as that is a weak link for them. But yes they did win a superbowl with a 1st round QB and not a fisrt round LT.

My question is what about the impact that top LTs have had in the past few drafts? Cleveland turned it around in yr 1 of Joe Thomas and DA, the Jets played well under the Brick house in 2006 before he struggled in 07 and is doing pretty well this year. Miami has done pretty well with Jake Long manning the left and the all-mighty Pennington at QB (ouch) AZ has Levi Brown playing real well at RT, the future/past QBs blindside, Denver's Cutler has taken the next step with a rookie LT that hasn't allowed a sack (to be fair Cutler is also entering his 3rd year and he deserves a lot of credit for his success).

I could go on and on, but the truth of the matter is that there are a number of ways to build a successful team in the NFL. This is a TEAM game, no team will win if they have a terrible O-Line or QB they are both important. One one thing that is very important to me is to have a GM and HC that have a vision and set plan of how they expect to be able to build a winner. Millen had no set plan, look at his decisions they were all over the board from super potential guys (Mike Williams) to low ceiling highly productive losers (Dizon). 4 WR in 5 years. What the F***! This isn't playstation!

Lets get a GM/HC that has enough ability to set a plan and stick too it. If he wants a QB 1st and there is one that warrants that sweat lets build that way!

But me personally, I hope we build similarly to how Miami is building. Lets build the trenches, see if our current 2nd round QB has it, pick up a vet until he's ready, draft a backup plan at QB after our 1st pick and let competiton rule after year 1. Get a new HC, New GM, 70% turnover rate on the sh**** roster that is inherited and go from there. I'm not saying that that is the right way, but it'd be my way.

Sorry for the rant, just frustrated about our team!
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Imagine if we had a rookie QB that was doing what Matt Ryan is doing down in Atlanta.. He would be worshiped like a God!
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Lions WMD View Post
Imagine if we had a rookie QB that was doing what Matt Ryan is doing down in Atlanta.. He would be worshiped like a God!
Thats a pretty big if, but I'll take it. IMO, a lot of Ryan's success have to go to his Oline overachieving and Burner Turner making NFL defenses look like the MAC. Ryan sure looks like a heck of a QB going forward though doesn't he.
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by woodnick View Post
Thats a pretty big if, but I'll take it. IMO, a lot of Ryan's success have to go to his Oline overachieving and Burner Turner making NFL defenses look like the MAC. Ryan sure looks like a heck of a QB going forward though doesn't he.
i agree i think the fact that he is able to stand back in his pocket and they gave a very good running game is helping him a lot. We will not have that next year and probably won't have it for a couple years if we don't draft a top OT now
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
The only problem with that philosophy is that you don't know what will happen next year. Will there be a franchise QB in next year's draft? Will Detroit draft high enough to get him?
The QB's who flop didn't do it because their teams rushed them. The great QB's have the ability to completely forget the last play, get up and go on as if nothing had happened. QB's who flop simply lack the mental toughness to do it.
We have a unique opportunity to draft a franchise QB in Stafford, that comes around maybe once every 20 years for a team. What if Indy passed on Peyton so they could get their team to be better. What if the Giants didn't trade up for Eli? What if Pittsburgh waited and passed on Roethlisberger? You don't wait or you never see the light of day! Certainly Atlanta and Baltimore could have used your reasoning and where would they be if they had?
Oh yeah, Neither NE, Indy, the Giants, Tennessee or Pittsburgh have a #1 draft pick playing LT so what makes you think we simply must draft one with the 1st overall pick.
I don't argue that we need a #1 LT. We need a good LT IMO and we have an opportunity to get that right now. Franchise QB's are usually in every draft. If Bradford doesn't come out he'll be there next year, along with Sanchez. Whether we'll be there or not my guess is we will have a down year since if we did the draft i was saying we have young guys at some key positions and we will loose some games due to lack of experience. We should be in the top 10 IMO and it would be a very interesting year because if we were to do my draft if we can then add our QB and work on the secondary then i think we could have a very good team.
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