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Old 12-08-2008, 11:20 PM    (permalink
bengalbuck
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Default Draft for attitude

I'm convinced that the Bengals biggest problem right now isn't simply talent related but attitude related. The Bengals really need to get some fire back and in the draft I would really focus on that.

One guy I personally like is Knowshon Moreno if he is there at the top of the 2nd round. I think it is possible as he strikes me as the type of guy who won't put up great numbers at the combine. He seems like the type of RB who the OL would love to block for and the fans could get behind. He doesn't seem like the type who would fall into the trap that Bengals players so often do where they look like they are going through the motions. For a running game that is struggling and lacks confidence, I think he could do wonders.

Another spot where we could really use an injection of toughness is the OL. Guys like Stacy Andrews and Eric Ghiachuc just don't play mean at all. I would love to get 2 OL who are really nasty. I'm not as sure of specific players but maybe somebody like Oher or A. Smith at the top of the first who just loves to maul people in the run game. I'd also love to add a nasty center. We have never replaced Rich Braham's production or his tough attitude.

I really think the offense needs some toughness and attitude because they seem way too soft, especially against defenses like Baltimore and Pittsburgh. I would love to hear some suggestions about players with swagger who would fit in well, especially on offense.
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Old 12-08-2008, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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I definitely agree about the swagger. I think we have a little bit on defense even though this season has been over for weeks now but we could definitely use a MLB with the attitude that Odell had on the field. Brandon Spikes strikes me as a guy who could give us that and he seems like he could be had in the second. I'm not really sold on drafting an OT that high but it's hard to pass on a guy like Andre Smith. I'm probably a little too high on AC but I think we do need to give the guy a chance and possibly let Levi go.

Moreno probably won't be available in the second but you are right that the guy is like a little spark plug when he runs the ball. I think he will test pretty well though I'm not sure about is straight line speed. He'll probably do a little worse than Cadillac Williams did which is not bad at all, just not exceptional. A guy like James Davis would be available then and I'm really on on him, though our draft position may be a bit early. He seems to have pretty much everything you look for in an NFL RB and the fact that he shared the workload is intriguing in that he doesn't have too much mileage on him.
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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My ideal situation for the OL would be to let Stacy Andrews walk and give AC the first shot at RT. He's pretty athletic but struggled pretty bad against Freeney and I'm not convinced that he is a prototype LT for a good NFL offense. That is why I'd love to get a LT to put next to Whitworth and have a great left side for a long time. I would even be okay with a LT in the first and a versatile guy in the second like Alex Mack who could fill in at a number of positions (though getting a first crack at C). Maybe an OL of:

Andre Smith-Andrew Whitworth-Alex Mack-Bobbie Williams-Anthony Collins

We'd be pretty young (except for Bobbie) and could start to rebuild the running game that has been awful the last couple years.

I agree that we are missing a guy like that on defense also and wouldn't mind a LB at the top of the second. However, I also kind of feel like we have so many holes on our team that we aren't going to fill them all. My personal preference is to focus almost exclusively on the offense in this draft. It is one of the worst in the NFL and the Carson/Chad/TJ window is quickly closing. Give those guys some guys to play with now and hope that Zimmer can get some improvement out of the young guys on D and get at least solid production from guys like Dhani and Jeanty.

My case for O instead of D is basically that our only chance of being competitive next year is to get the offense back into the top 10 and hope the D can at least be average. I also sort of feel like if the D could occasionally play with the lead and could have an offense that can run the ball and eat up clock (not constantly going 3 and out), that we would see big improvement. In that way, a RB at the top of the 2nd could arguably help the D even more than drafting a LB.

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Old 12-09-2008, 01:06 AM    (permalink
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I agree that you guys just seem to lack a certain intensity on the field and ultimately that is a coaches mentality that has trickled down into the players. A coaching staff would change that, which I feel is coming.

It's not that you guys don't lack talent as you have some talented players, but you lack talent at certain key positions. Levi Jones is not the LT that he used to be and an upgrade should definitely be in the works at that critical position. Andre Smith makes perfect sense where you guys will most likely end up drafting. He's played against top notch competition, plays with a nasty demeanor, and is adept at both run blocking and pass protection.

In the second round I like Brandon Spikes to you guys. He strikes me as a player that is very similar to DeMeco Ryans and would be an instant upgrade over Dhani Jones. Spikes playing next to Keith Rivers would be an excellent young tandem at Mike and Will. Spikes would also give you guys a leader on defense, someone to rally the troops and be a general on that side of the ball.

After the second round, it's hard to draft for need but BPA, however, if James Davis were available in the third he'd be an amazing addition to the running game. If he's not there, then someone like DE Larry English or a WR to either work the slot or possession route.
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Old 12-09-2008, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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Diabsoule seems to "get it" when it comes to coaching.

it's all about accountability.

if it is a problem plaguing your entire team....it's probably a coaching issue.
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Old 12-09-2008, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Banner View Post
Diabsoule seems to "get it" when it comes to coaching.

it's all about accountability.

if it is a problem plaguing your entire team....it's probably a coaching issue.
Glad you hold me in such high esteem when it comes to thoughts on coaching.
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Old 12-09-2008, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
Glad you hold me in such high esteem when it comes to thoughts on coaching.
You're proven.

You quickly recognized the problems the Saints are having, and determined that it was coaching related, which they are.

and then almost every other Saints fan on DC followed your lead. LOL
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Old 12-09-2008, 02:12 AM    (permalink
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I think you guys have a better chance at Moreno than you do at Spikes in the second round to be honest. That said I think you guys should go with Smith in the first and then grab a BPA at RB, DE and MLB and then grab a center in the third, Luigs or Cantwell will be there at the start of the third and both can be very good starters at C.
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
I agree that you guys just seem to lack a certain intensity on the field and ultimately that is a coaches mentality that has trickled down into the players. A coaching staff would change that, which I feel is coming.

It's not that you guys don't lack talent as you have some talented players, but you lack talent at certain key positions. Levi Jones is not the LT that he used to be and an upgrade should definitely be in the works at that critical position. Andre Smith makes perfect sense where you guys will most likely end up drafting. He's played against top notch competition, plays with a nasty demeanor, and is adept at both run blocking and pass protection.

In the second round I like Brandon Spikes to you guys. He strikes me as a player that is very similar to DeMeco Ryans and would be an instant upgrade over Dhani Jones. Spikes playing next to Keith Rivers would be an excellent young tandem at Mike and Will. Spikes would also give you guys a leader on defense, someone to rally the troops and be a general on that side of the ball.

After the second round, it's hard to draft for need but BPA, however, if James Davis were available in the third he'd be an amazing addition to the running game. If he's not there, then someone like DE Larry English or a WR to either work the slot or possession route.
Coaching on the Defensive side I don't really have many complaints about. Zimmer has come in here and made a difference with this defense which was especially apparent when we had some semblance of health on that side of the ball. He has an attitude that we all really seem to like and the D is STILL playing hard even though week in and week out they are completely over matched due to the fact that most of our starters are out. The offense, on the other hand, has no attitude about them whatsoever. I think we would all LOVE to see Marvin go but that just doesn't seem like it's in the cards. Hopefully, we could at least get a new OC if nothing else.

I hope we can retain Zimmer and Fitzgerald no matter what happens because they have done well and will only continue to improve with a couple more players. We just don't really have that leader on Defense that we need(though it could be Rivers in due time) who has that type of attitude that Odell Thurman brought when he came here. Spikes seems to be that type of guy but if he's not in the second who else is there? Are there any guys later we might be able to get?

I would LOVE to get Andre Smith though I feel like LT is the only spot where AC can play and even though he wasn't great against Freeney, not many rookies ever are. I just feel like the kid deserves a shot and we have so much money tied into the position that drafting a top LT doesn't seem feasible at this point. That said, If AC can play RT and they get rid of Andrews and Levi we would be pretty set though there would definitely be some initial growing pains.
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Good call on being fair to Collins, Freeney is an eight-year pro and the Bengals didn't give Collins help on every single play, I don't think. Definitely give Collins the rest of the season to evaluate him, he's shown some promise already.

Although if the Bengals are drafting second overall, I don't know if there is a better player than Andre Smith at that pick. He can ball in both the passing game and the running game.
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Old 12-09-2008, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Andre Smith may be the best run blocking tackle Ive seen in a while.
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Old 12-09-2008, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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As much as I would love for us to take Orapko in the first, Andre Smith would fill a bigger need. Agreed with everyone else saying that Collins should have the chance to prove himself, but there is nothing better than some insurance, especially at the LT position. However I don't think we can completely abandon the defense in this draft, OP spoke about drafting for attitude and he is exactly right. We must get some nasty players on offense who will do whatever it takes. It's obvious that our offense is our biggest problem this year, especially with CP out, and we need to ensure that we can get back to the "elite" offense that we once had.
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