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Old 12-13-2008, 01:20 AM    (permalink
iowatreat54
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
When he retired with 18,255 rushing yards, 3,224 receiving yards, 175 TD's, 3 Super Bowl rings, and an MVP trophy. It's not even debateable that he's in the argument of GOAT.
Actually it is. Jim Brown, Walter Payton, and Barry Sanders are all easily above him, without question. The argument would put Smith around Gale Sayers (who I would put above Smith) and Eric Dickerson imo.

I really don't care about Smith's record for most yards, and how many Super Bowls is irrelevant in the discussion. If you watched any football of the other players, you would easily see that he isn't even top 3, he just stuck around longer while playing behind the greatest OL ever to play the game.
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Old 12-13-2008, 03:29 AM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
When he retired with 18,255 rushing yards, 3,224 receiving yards, 175 TD's, 3 Super Bowl rings, and an MVP trophy. It's not even debateable that he's in the argument of GOAT.

How about u look at the holes bigger than 3 people that he got to run through
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Old 12-13-2008, 04:00 AM    (permalink
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Manning has been a better player almost every season that they both played, the sheer length of favres career makes sure that he might have more passing records but manning > favre for me and i dont mean to say that manning is the goat but just comparing the two.
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Old 12-13-2008, 07:07 AM    (permalink
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Manning has been a better player almost every season that they both played, the sheer length of favres career makes sure that he might have more passing records but manning > favre for me and i dont mean to say that manning is the goat but just comparing the two.
But isn't that the point? it's slightly premature to be calling Manning better than Favre imo. Favre played in this league for for 6 years longer than manning (as a starter... I choose to ignore his year w/ the falcons) and he played well for those six years (looking back at the stats, 2003 seemed to be a bit off for him - but the other 5 years looked really good).

I also think it's slightly ridiculous that people complain about his INT's. You can't have it both ways - if you're going to count the fact that he holds the record for INT's then you also have to count the fact that he holds the record for TD's. I personally believe both are more of a statement to his 17 and a half seasons more than a statement to who he is as a player, but I'm also not the one crying about stats here.

As far as the g.o.a.t. conversation goes, I don't think he is personally - but he has to be in the talk for the fact that no other QB has done what he has.
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Old 12-13-2008, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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But isn't that the point? it's slightly premature to be calling Manning better than Favre imo. Favre played in this league for for 6 years longer than manning (as a starter... I choose to ignore his year w/ the falcons) and he played well for those six years (looking back at the stats, 2003 seemed to be a bit off for him - but the other 5 years looked really good).

I also think it's slightly ridiculous that people complain about his INT's. You can't have it both ways - if you're going to count the fact that he holds the record for INT's then you also have to count the fact that he holds the record for TD's. I personally believe both are more of a statement to his 17 and a half seasons more than a statement to who he is as a player, but I'm also not the one crying about stats here.

As far as the g.o.a.t. conversation goes, I don't think he is personally - but he has to be in the talk for the fact that no other QB has done what he has.

Manning has just been better in the period they play together and therefore i think he is a better player. Sure Manning can still **** up his career but if he quits today he is a surefire hall of famer, not that brett isnt but for me Manning has already proven to be the superior player, which is no knock on Favre cause he aint half bad either. Surely 11 seasons both playing in the league must be sufficient time to compare two players.
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Old 12-13-2008, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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well then by most of these arguements, fran tarkenton deserves to be mentioned in with the greatest qbs right? he held most of the records before marino did.
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
Throw all the stats you want out...I watched Emmitt Smith play football....he isn't in the GOAT conversation.
lol Yeah, Super Bowl rings and an MVP trophy are just stats. And for that matter so are TD's. They equal 6 points on the score board...but they're just stats...

I watched Emmitt play too. I actually understand football and can see that not being the most flashy doesn't exclude someone for conversation of best.
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
Actually it is. Jim Brown, Walter Payton, and Barry Sanders are all easily above him, without question. The argument would put Smith around Gale Sayers (who I would put above Smith) and Eric Dickerson imo.
I bring facts, you bring hollow opinions.

Facts>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>opinion

Super Bowl rings, production and longevity carry more weight than opinions.
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
I bring facts, you bring hollow opinions.

Facts>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>opinion

Super Bowl rings, production and longevity carry more weight than opinions.
Yes, because Emmit Smith got those stats all by himself and won those Super Bowls all by himself. Seriously, football is a team sport and there is more to it than just stats.
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Manning has just been better in the period they play together and therefore i think he is a better player.
Well now that's just stupid. By comparing the time they've played at the same time you're ignoring Favre's best years in which he had 3 MVPs, 2 Super Bowl appearances, and 1 Super Bowl win. You're comparing Manning in his prime to Favre in the tail end of his career.
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Sure Manning can still **** up his career but if he quits today he is a surefire hall of famer
Favre would have easily been a hall of famer after 11 seasons too.

Yeah Peyton might end up as being better, but the arguments you're making are ridiculous.
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
I bring facts, you bring hollow opinions.

Facts>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>opinion

Super Bowl rings, production and longevity carry more weight than opinions.
its not opinion. There is a reason why people usually dont talk about Emmit Smith when u talk about the best RB ever.

Super Bowl Rings? Big woops, guys like Trent Dilfer got one. MVP? Shaun Alexander has one.

Seriously SBRings and MVP tell u absolutely nothing at all. The OLine made Emmit Smith Emmit Smith. A kindergarden kid couldve run for 1000 yards
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post

Seriously SBRings and MVP tell u absolutely nothing at all.
I'm going to steal a line from Colin Cowherd and tell you to say that out loud so you can hear how silly it would sound to say that. In type, it's still really really dumb.
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Yes, because Emmit Smith got those stats all by himself and won those Super Bowls all by himself. Seriously, football is a team sport and there is more to it than just stats.
Nobody said it wasn't a team sport.

Here I've got something for you to say out loud: "Scoring 175 touchdowns is just stats! Touchdowns don't really mean anything" Go ahead, i'll wait.....lol, funny huh.
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to steal a line from Colin Cowherd and tell you to say that out loud so you can hear how silly it would sound to say that. In type, it's still really really dumb.
Alright, how good is Trent Dilfer, Jared Lorenzen and Brad Johnson? GOAT?
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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I've got one one for people that think Favre isn't getting really close to entering the GOAT argument:

Name the HoF skill position player that Favre has played with for a large part of his career.

Go ahead. Who is it? Montana had Rice. Elway had Sharpe. Unitas had Raymond Berry. Who is Favre's all time best go to guy?
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Does that make him a better player?
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Old 12-13-2008, 01:03 PM    (permalink
Halsey
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Does that make him a better player?
Deep down, you know I just dropped a bomb of a point. You better come up with a better counter attack than asking a hollow question.
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Old 12-13-2008, 01:07 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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how about u answer that question?
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Old 12-13-2008, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Nobody said it wasn't a team sport.

Here I've got something for you to say out loud: "Scoring 175 touchdowns is just stats! Touchdowns don't really mean anything" Go ahead, i'll wait.....lol, funny huh.
I never said it wasn't a feat. He was a very great running back, but you're lack of ability to take in just more than the stats is what really is astounding. Seriously, the phrase "think before you speak" doesn't just apply to speaking, you can also use it for typing.

Also understand that people would be more likely to listen to you if you would be less of a *insert word of choice* in the way you "discuss" things.
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Old 12-13-2008, 01:22 PM    (permalink
Halsey
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how about u answer that question?
Sure, the answer is: Does that make him a better player than who? WTH does that even mean? Favre has been breaking passing records without playing with a single skill position player who will ever be in the HoF. John Elway, Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas, Peyton Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman and Steve Young can't say that! Look, Brett Favre is Brett Favre! Even John knows that!

Well, I'm bored with this argument now!

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Old 12-13-2008, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Well, I could use the exact opposite argument : How come not a single receiver ever evolved into a future hall of famer by playing with Brett Favre, while most other great QBs did "create" HOF WRs around them?
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:27 PM    (permalink
nrk
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Well, I could use the exact opposite argument : How come not a single receiver ever evolved into a future hall of famer by playing with Brett Favre, while most other great QBs did "create" HOF WRs around them?
Because they weren't "created" by the QBs.
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Well, I could use the exact opposite argument : How come not a single receiver ever evolved into a future hall of famer by playing with Brett Favre, while most other great QBs did "create" HOF WRs around them?
The only receiver Favre ever had long enough to do that was Donald Driver and while Driver was pro bowl caliber, he wasn't HoF caliber.

At first he had Sterling Sharpe. And if not for a career ending injury, Sharpe probably would have gone on to be Favre's Hall of fame receiver.

Then he had Antonio Freeman and Bill Schroeder, who were Favre's receivers for what, 4 years? While they were, they were one of the better receiver tandems in the league. As soon as they left, their careers fell apart. Just ask Lions fans about Bill Schroeder.

Favre had Donald Driver for a lot of years. Pro bowl caliber receiver, not a hall of famer.

And more recently, Greg Jennings, but he only had 2 years to throw to Greg Jennings.
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Go ahead. Who is it? Montana had Rice. Elway had Sharpe. Unitas had Raymond Berry. Who is Favre's all time best go to guy?
Who did Dan Marino have? Who did Tom Brady have? Not all of the great QB's have that HoF receiver. And don't say Randy Moss. Tom Brady didn't "create" Randy Moss, and he only threw to Moss one year.


Who was Bart Starr's HoF receiver?
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Brett Favre is one of the greatest QBs I have seen. What annoys me though is the media's love for him is just absurd. When he threw 29 Ints a few years ago he recieved no blame. Also a few weeks ago Sal Palontonio said was he is doing this year is "biblical" andit just annoys me. But ranking him against best QBs in the live ball era it would go
1. Joe Montana
2. Peyton Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Steve Young
5. Brett Favre
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