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Old 12-13-2008, 02:40 PM    (permalink
Job
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I know that. It was just a way of saying his argument wasn't that valid.
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Job View Post
I know that. It was just a way of saying his argument wasn't that valid.
No, you're "exact opposite" argument wasn't even exactly opposites. You changed the question of Brett Favre's skill players he played compared to other top QB's skill players to how many recievers the QB created. You really didn't do anything.
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GB12 View Post
Well now that's just stupid. By comparing the time they've played at the same time you're ignoring Favre's best years in which he had 3 MVPs, 2 Super Bowl appearances, and 1 Super Bowl win. You're comparing Manning in his prime to Favre in the tail end of his career.
Favre would have easily been a hall of famer after 11 seasons too.

Yeah Peyton might end up as being better, but the arguments you're making are ridiculous.
So your saying someone playing better in 11 years does not make a legitimate argument that the player is better, c'mon. Sure Favre has had some good years before but you are also comparing it to Mannings rookie and second season as well. Manning already has a more prolific career in my mind. You are free to disagree and I just took Manning as a comparison to now. I'd even be tempted to make a case for Brady over Favre. However for me its simple Favre is a great qb maybe even a once in a lifetime qb with respect to the way he plays the position and the joy he brings to the field but Manning is just more efficient in a deadly and lame kinda way.
(other topic) With respect to the TD/interception ration made earlier it must be noted that NFL rules have gone to favor passing way more over time and therefore passing was more risky since the receivers were protected less.
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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Favre should only have 2 MVPs...Sanders was the only one that deserved the MVP in 1997.
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Old 12-13-2008, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
lol Yeah, Super Bowl rings and an MVP trophy are just stats. And for that matter so are TD's. They equal 6 points on the score board...but they're just stats...

I watched Emmitt play too. I actually understand football and can see that not being the most flashy doesn't exclude someone for conversation of best.
Let me ask you this...the year that Shaun Alexander won the MVP...do you think he was the best RB in the NFL that year? Or do you think he was running behind the best O-line in the league that made a good straight-line back look great?
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Old 12-13-2008, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Let me ask you this...the year that Shaun Alexander won the MVP...do you think he was the best RB in the NFL that year? Or do you think he was running behind the best O-line in the league that made a good straight-line back look great?
Well Duh!! Did you look at his amazing stats? He was the best player ever that year.
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Old 12-13-2008, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
Sure, the answer is: Does that make him a better player than who? WTH does that even mean? Favre has been breaking passing records without playing with a single skill position player who will ever be in the HoF. John Elway, Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas, Peyton Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman and Steve Young can't say that! Look, Brett Favre is Brett Favre! Even John knows that!

Well, I'm bored with this argument now!
Does it make him a better QB that he didnt play with a HoF Player? seriously this was ******* easy to understand. That fact is irrelevant. WHo did Dan Marino play with?

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Well Duh!! Did you look at his amazing stats? He was the best player ever that year.
!
Dude look, he got the MVP Trophy and had amazing stats! RBs run on their on. He was the bestestestest evazzzzzz!!!!!!111111111oneoneoneelvenelveneleven
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Old 12-13-2008, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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Sure, the answer is: Does that make him a better player than who? WTH does that even mean? Favre has been breaking passing records without playing with a single skill position player who will ever be in the HoF. John Elway, Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas, Peyton Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman and Steve Young can't say that! Look, Brett Favre is Brett Favre! Even John knows that!

Well, I'm bored with this argument now!
He also broke Marino's records by playing like 3 or 4 more years than him...
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Old 12-13-2008, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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He also broke Marino's records by playing like 3 or 4 more years than him...
Actually, years wise they are the same, and Brett at this point only has about 35 more games played in(I didn't include Brett's first year).
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:58 AM    (permalink
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35 more games are at least 2 seasons
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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It's a compliment to Favre that he's been able to stay productive longer than other QB's.

Marino in his final year at 38 years old: 2,448 yrds, 12 TD's, 17 INT's, 67.8 passer rating

Favre last season at 38: 4,155 yrds, 28 TD's, 15 INT's. 95.7 passer rating


And Marino was a statue at that point in his career, while Favre can move around in the pocket effectively to this day.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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yay that means Marino was the ******* master before 38. Seriously are we comparing QBs or just QBs when they are 38?
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
yay that means Marino was the ******* master before 38. Seriously are we comparing QBs or just QBs when they are 38?
You wanna compare Favre to Marino? Ok, i'll go first: Favre has played in 2 Super Bowls, won one, has never missed a start, holds almost every major career passing record, is more mobile than Marino was, has won 3 league MVP's, has been on the cover of Madden, appeared in Something About Mary, wears Wranglers.

Ok, you go.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Forever, b/c he is isn't GOAT.
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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I think anyone can argue this because favre has done so much and like someone else said hes never really had real good WRs but he has always had decent WRs and Tom brady showed everyone you can win superbowls without a start WR and farve can go down as alot of things most risk taking QB most dedicated QB but the GOAT im not sure im just going to keep thinking montana is the goat lol but thats my opinion........................................... .................................PS. Joe Flacco will be the GOAT eventually hahahahah
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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You wanna compare Favre to Marino? Ok, i'll go first: Favre has played in 2 Super Bowls, won one, has never missed a start, holds almost every major career passing record, is more mobile than Marino was, has won 3 league MVP's, has been on the cover of Madden, appeared in Something About Mary, wears Wranglers.

Ok, you go.
Quote:
* Most Attempts, Career: 8,358 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2007)
* Most Completions, Career: 4,967 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2006)
* Most Yards Passing, Career: 61,361 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2007)
* Most Touchdown Passes, Career: 420 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2007)
* Most Yards Passing, Season: 5,084 in 1984
* Most Touchdown Passes, Season: 48 (surpassed by Peyton Manning (49) in 2004 and by Tom Brady (50) in 2007)
* Most Games, 400 or more Yards Passing, Career: 13
* Most Games, 400 or more Yards Passing, Season: 4 in 1984
* Most Games, 300 or more Yards Passing, Career: 63
* Most Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: 13 (1984-92, 1994-95, 1997-98) (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2005)
* Most Consecutive Seasons, 3,000 or more Yards Passing: 9 (1984-92) (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2001)
* Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Career: 21
* Most Games, Four or more Touchdown Passes, Season: 6 in 1984
* Most Games, Three or more Touchdown Passes, Career: 62 (surpassed by Brett Favre in 2007)
* Lowest Percentage, Passes Intercepted, Rookie Season: 2.03 in 1983 (296-6) [surpassed by Charlie Batch, Detroit, 1.98 in 1998 (303-6)]
* Most Seasons Leading League, Attempts: 5 (1984, 1986, 1988, 1992, 1997)
* Most Seasons Leading League, Completions: 6 (1984-86, 1988, 1992, 1997)
* Most Seasons, 40 or more Touchdown Passes: 2 (1984, 1986)
* 100 TD Passes in Fewest Number of Games to Start Career: 44 (9/7/1986 at San Diego)
* 200 TD passes in Fewest Number of Games to Start Career: 89 (9/17/1989 at New England)
* 300 TD passes in Fewest Number of Games to Start Career: 157 (9/4/1994 vs. New England)
* Highest TD-INT differential: +168
Seriously u need to stop making it about rings. Marino didnt have Reggie White, prolly the best DE in the game. All the records Favre has are the ones that u should have after playing the most games for a QB
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Most overrated statistic ever= Most 4th quarter comebacks.

I want my dominant quarterback to close out games early, or have us lead for most of the time. I don't want him playing like **** and then hoping my D holds long enough for a late touchdown pass.
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Seriously u need to stop making it about rings. Marino didnt have Reggie White, prolly the best DE in the game. All the records Favre has are the ones that u should have after playing the most games for a QB
No matter what points I make you're gonna say "Stop making it about rings/stats/records/longevity/surrounding talent/winning/coaching/era/whatever else!"

What do you want to compare? Hair styles? Glove commercials? Appearances in Jim Carrey movies?
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:58 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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How about their play? how about their ******* game?
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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well when you bring up "stats" like "Favre is more mobile" or "has been to more Super Bowls", those don't really matter. At all. Marino has never been to a Super Bowl, yet he is somehow argued as one of the greatest. ZZOMGZ HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE!!!!

and as *** ork wang said, having all those records is very impressive, but when you play that many more games and have that many more pass attempts, you should be able to get some records like most completions, most tds, most ints, etc.
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:30 PM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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everytime Favre steps on the field u know he is a good player. but as a bears fan i was never afraid of favre. not as afraid as when guys like brees, manning or brady do
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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everytime Favre steps on the field u know he is a good player. but as a bears fan i was never afraid of favre. not as afraid as when guys like brees, manning or brady do
I was only afraid of Favre with 2-3 minutes left in the 4th quarter, up by 7 or less. Otherwise, the rest of the game I was fairly confident he would give us opportunities to win by throwing picks. Now, the Bears didn't usually take advantage, but that didn't mean he didn't give them the chance.
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Old 12-14-2008, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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hes the G.O.A.T at throwing interceptions
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Old 12-14-2008, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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hes the G.O.A.T at throwing interceptions
Also the GOAT at throwing touchdowns.
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Old 12-14-2008, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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All the records Favre has are the ones that u should have after playing the most games for a QB
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and as *** ork wang said, having all those records is very impressive, but when you play that many more games and have that many more pass attempts, you should be able to get some records like most completions, most tds, most ints, etc.
No. That's ridiculous to discredit what he has achieved because he has played 18 seasons. Saying that he should have him because he played so long? That's a joke. I guess Randy Johnson should break Nolan Ryan's strikeout record because he's playing longer. And besides, he broke Marino's record in the same amount of seasons as a starter. You can't punish him because he doesn't get hurt like Marino. Being durable and being able to play a long time should add to his greatness, not take away from it like you are trying to do.

And now I get to the point where I totally destroy your point. Favre has a TD per attempt ratio higher than that of Dan Marino and John Elway, and close to Joe Montana's.

Pecentages of pass attempts that were touchdowns of QBs with a minimum of 5,000 attempts in order by most attempts:

Favre - 5.03%
Marino - 5.02%
Elway - 4.13%
Moon - 4.26%
Bledsoe - 3.74%
Testaverde - 4.10
Tarkenton - 5.28%
Manning - 5.57%
Collins - 3.30%
Fouts - 4.53%
Montana - 5.06%
Krieg - 4.91%
Esiason - 4.74%
Unitas - 5.59%
Hart - 4.11%
DeBerg - 3.90%
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