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Old 01-04-2009, 10:58 AM    (permalink
Bucs_Rule
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I"d be happy making that trade. Its really hard to win the Super Bowl without a Franchise QB. I don't want to wait until the team has another horrible year to draft one.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:09 PM    (permalink
dbtb135
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I'm thinking something along the lines of Marks/Jerry/Maclin or possibly a QB in round 1 depending on the value of who's left. I'd like to find a DE later, but I'm not a big fan of the class as is. I like Barwin, but I think he's gone by mid-2nd with the DE class the way it is now. It's just really crappy IMO after Brown/Johnson/Selvie/Jackson. There's obviously still some talent there, but I don't think it compares to some of the recent DE classes. Which hurts because DE has become a bigger need as the season went on. TE or RB could be a secondary need. RB SEEMS like a bigger need, but once Earnest comes back healthy it won't be a top priority. Of course, everyone is going to want a fast playmaker, but it's not really the biggest hole we have right now. TE would seem to have less talent, but maybe a bigger affect with how little we throw the ball deep and with Stevens possibly leaving via FA. LB really isn't a need. Safety really isn't a need. CB could get us very good value in round 2-4, but I don't know if the staff is going to use such a premium pick there unless P-Buc isn't re-signed. OL is finished, if we use another top 3 round pick there I'm going to blow. I think our needs are:

UT
QB
LDE
FL
TE
CB
RB
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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I agree, sort of. I think you're underrating our TEs and overrating the OL & LBs. Smith, Stevens and Gilmore are all solid and the depth is nice. The chances of us finding an upgrade in the draft are very low. We should keep all 3 and hold off on that position for at least another year.

The OL is definitely not set. Trueblood is a weak link and we need to find him some competition. Our depth is also very weak. I could definitely see us drafting or signing someone to bring insurance at the very least.

We appear to be set at LB, but I see concerns. None of our backups have looked all that good, Brooks is deteriorating and June is mediocre. If Ruud gets injured our season is pretty much lost. Only Hayward has looked anything short of horrible when he's playing.

How can you be so sure that UT is the need and not NT? Hovan is the weak link at DT and finding a replacement for him is crucial. Jerry is a perfect fit imo. I like Marks but Haye/Wilkerson/Carter>Hovan/Sims. Peterson does not appear to be a factor.

The needs are : DT, LDE, QB, X receiver, CB and then RB, LB and OL as depth possibilities.

I have no clue how to arrange the major needs. WR and DL would be a good start, but QB is an option if available. CB could be a mid-round fill.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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If Moreno or Beanie Wells were to drop to us, should we pull the trigger? (FA withstanding)

I know our biggest need is up front (defense) but looking at our RB's health and age issues, I'd be hard pushed not to select one or the other?

Thoughts.....
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Both backs are overrated. Moreno=slight upgrade over Cadillac. Wells=slight upgrade over Graham.

Not worth a 1st rounder for that.
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:52 AM    (permalink
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Both backs are overrated. Moreno=slight upgrade over Cadillac. Wells=slight upgrade over Graham.

Not worth a 1st rounder for that.
Correct.

I think we have far to many needs at the moment to even consider drafting a RB. I would even look at possibly a trade down to someone coveting one of these guys if that were at all possible.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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I'd have QB as a 2nd or 3rd need, not 1st, imo. Mainly because I know we have no shot at the elite talent.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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I'd have QB as a 2nd or 3rd need, not 1st, imo. Mainly because I know we have no shot at the elite talent.

As far as value goes what would be the price to get to #1? My guess is 1st and 2nd this year and 1st next year. Would that do it?
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:39 PM    (permalink
Bruce Banner
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As far as value goes what would be the price to get to #1? My guess is 1st and 2nd this year and 1st next year. Would that do it?
Me and you have been on this same wavelength a while Babylon. I think it would take more (like another 2nd and a 4th or something comparable to that), but I would do it.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Me and you have been on this same wavelength a while Babylon. I think it would take more (like another 2nd and a 4th or something comparable to that), but I would do it.
You know it isnt going to happen, you could maybe see a team coming from a top 10 spot and moving up but playoff caliber teams dont see the need to make that kind of a bold move. They'll never get to the Superbowl with what they have we know that.
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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You know it isnt going to happen, you could maybe see a team coming from a top 10 spot and moving up but playoff caliber teams dont see the need to make that kind of a bold move. They'll never get to the Superbowl with what they have we know that.
Which sucks. The Bucs are in a terrible position. They have to tank in the near future in order to secure elite talent. but........

Based on Bruce Allen's comments in his most recent press conference (which can be found on the front page of www.buccaneers.com), he doesn't think the Bucs need elite talent at the QB position anyways...He doesn't consider the position "premium" or of any greater worth than any other position on the field.
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Old 01-10-2009, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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I'd have QB as a 2nd or 3rd need, not 1st, imo. Mainly because I know we have no shot at the elite talent.
Mark Sanchez would be a great pick....Nate Davis as well.

Those guys are good.

and Bruce Allen is ********.
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:00 AM    (permalink
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I want a new QB. :(
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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I'd give even money that they would strongly consider Sanchez and Bradford if they were there but they wouldnt be trading up to try to get to the top.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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hey guys, long time first time.

personally i'd like to see us go after Haynesworth hard this offseason. I realize he'd cost a lot of money and normally I don't particularly like the idea of going after free agents and spending a ton of dough but i think for certain players you can justify such a move. IF your franchise decides to spend money to pursue a high profile guy, the one MUST is he has to make those around him better. I feel like if we had HaynesW holding down the middle of the field we would see increased production out of Gaines and the rest of the line, plus decreased wear and tear on Brooks, Barber, etc. Putting pressure on the QB with the Tampa 2 makes life easier for everyone on the D-side of the ball and if anyone in the LEAGUE can do it, it's Haynesworth - let's go get him.

Since this is the Draft thread I think I should put my 2 cents in regarding the draft as well. Personally, the positions I'd like to see us go depend greatly on the offseason but since this is my thread lets pretend we did get Haynesworth. If so, I'd like to see us focus on the offensive side of the ball simply because I think we've done a good enough job drafting quality defensive players over the past couple years (t-jax, p-teli, aquib, ruud) to where we have a decent core of young guys to work with. On the other hand our players drafted on offense I don't feel as comfortable with (trueblood, d-jax2, caddy, stoval). We should also keep in mind that we were one of the top defenses in the league prior to the little meltdown at the end of the season however we just couldn't close in the red zone.

1st Round - In my dreams, one of the top 3 OT's (Smith, Oher, Monroe) falls to us but if a QB of the Bradford/Sanchez-type is there then I believe we have to take a him (as much as I like J.Johnson). Now if one of those mentioned aren't there and a value DT/DE is there we take him and NOT a WR. As much as I'd love to see DHB or Maclin in a bucs uni, I don't feel like our foundation for a good offense is solid enough to justify taking a WR (ie the lions and Calvin Johnson).

2nd round - (tired of typing, looking forward to posting again and even more-so reading all of your posts!)




later.
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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I agree, sort of. I think you're underrating our TEs and overrating the OL & LBs. Smith, Stevens and Gilmore are all solid and the depth is nice. The chances of us finding an upgrade in the draft are very low. We should keep all 3 and hold off on that position for at least another year.
Gilmore is a solid blocker. Receiving-wise, Stevens could be gone in FA. Even if our FO WANTS him back, he could go to a better team or more money or go back to the west coast. Smith is a disappointment who I think could be upgraded. It's confusing how the fanbase has held him in the same high regard since he came here, despite never improving at a noticeable rate. Everyone gets on Clayton and Stovall and Trueblood, etc etc when they don't play well, but Smith gets a pass for the 4th straight season while getting passed on the depth chart for a FA who got paid the league min?

If we can upgrade at TE, I'd be for it. I don't think it's the biggest need, but it is one that I can see being upgraded by a quick draft pick. Can't really say the same for WR or QB or other positions. I think the OL has had enough resources put into it. If we use another top pick on it, I'm giving up on this team. Our LBs are solid also. Ruud is set at Mike, and we've got June who can play WSLB at a high level and Black who can probably play SSLB pretty solid. Hayes looked good at WSLB in his short time there this season as a 20 year old rookie.

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The OL is definitely not set. Trueblood is a weak link and we need to find him some competition. Our depth is also very weak. I could definitely see us drafting or signing someone to bring insurance at the very least.
Sign them then. If we're using a top 5 round pick on another OL after we used a 3rd round pick on a VERSATILE BACK-UP last year, then we're ********.

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We appear to be set at LB, but I see concerns. None of our backups have looked all that good, Brooks is deteriorating and June is mediocre. If Ruud gets injured our season is pretty much lost. Only Hayward has looked anything short of horrible when he's playing.
June is playing solid at a position that doesn't fit him. He played great at WSLB in Indy. I don't see how you can call him mediocre. Ryan Nece was mediocre. Hayes played better than Hayward IMO. Both are great ST players.

I don't get the point of trying to upgrade the back-ups at positions like RT or MLB when our STARTERS at UT, NT, LDE, Flanker, and QB are all well below average. Even Gaines, though I'm giving him somewhat of a pass because he can actually rush the passer when Carter, Hovan, and Haye outside of last season cannot.

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How can you be so sure that UT is the need and not NT? Hovan is the weak link at DT and finding a replacement for him is crucial. Jerry is a perfect fit imo. I like Marks but Haye/Wilkerson/Carter>Hovan/Sims. Peterson does not appear to be a factor.
I like Wilkerson, the rest is pretty much done. We were actually worse off in the run game when Hovan was out and Sims was in. Sims is useless. Haye's play dropped off entirely. He didn't get any rush this year, plain and simple. At UT of all positions, thats not going to cut it. Ask Booger. Carter is just about done. I think we need to upgrade both spots, but UT is the more pressing need IMO. We've made run stoppers out of less. See: Hovan before he came here. It's also easier to find a solid big body in the run game than to find an interior pass rush.

We'd draft Jerry and then play him at NT? Is you crazy? Of course he would go to UT.

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The needs are : DT, LDE, QB, X receiver, CB and then RB, LB and OL as depth possibilities.

I have no clue how to arrange the major needs. WR and DL would be a good start, but QB is an option if available. CB could be a mid-round fill.
OL shouldn't even come into play at all this draft except a 7th rounder or UDFA. We've put the majority of our recent premium draft picks and FA money (Faine's contract being worth more than Bryant's, Stevens', Garcia's, P-Buc's, and June's combined) into the line. If we feel compelled to spend more on the upgrading the insurance policies on the line than we do to put solid starters at other positions of more significant need, then I don't trust our ability to run a team over a 4 year old's.
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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Gilmore is a solid blocker. Receiving-wise, Stevens could be gone in FA. Even if our FO WANTS him back, he could go to a better team or more money or go back to the west coast. Smith is a disappointment who I think could be upgraded. It's confusing how the fanbase has held him in the same high regard since he came here, despite never improving at a noticeable rate. Everyone gets on Clayton and Stovall and Trueblood, etc etc when they don't play well, but Smith gets a pass for the 4th straight season while getting passed on the depth chart for a FA who got paid the league min?

If we can upgrade at TE, I'd be for it. I don't think it's the biggest need, but it is one that I can see being upgraded by a quick draft pick. Can't really say the same for WR or QB or other positions. I think the OL has had enough resources put into it. If we use another top pick on it, I'm giving up on this team. Our LBs are solid also. Ruud is set at Mike, and we've got June who can play WSLB at a high level and Black who can probably play SSLB pretty solid. Hayes looked good at WSLB in his short time there this season as a 20 year old rookie.



Sign them then. If we're using a top 5 round pick on another OL after we used a 3rd round pick on a VERSATILE BACK-UP last year, then we're ********.



June is playing solid at a position that doesn't fit him. He played great at WSLB in Indy. I don't see how you can call him mediocre. Ryan Nece was mediocre. Hayes played better than Hayward IMO. Both are great ST players.

I don't get the point of trying to upgrade the back-ups at positions like RT or MLB when our STARTERS at UT, NT, LDE, Flanker, and QB are all well below average. Even Gaines, though I'm giving him somewhat of a pass because he can actually rush the passer when Carter, Hovan, and Haye outside of last season cannot.



I like Wilkerson, the rest is pretty much done. We were actually worse off in the run game when Hovan was out and Sims was in. Sims is useless. Haye's play dropped off entirely. He didn't get any rush this year, plain and simple. At UT of all positions, thats not going to cut it. Ask Booger. Carter is just about done. I think we need to upgrade both spots, but UT is the more pressing need IMO. We've made run stoppers out of less. See: Hovan before he came here. It's also easier to find a solid big body in the run game than to find an interior pass rush.

We'd draft Jerry and then play him at NT? Is you crazy? Of course he would go to UT.



OL shouldn't even come into play at all this draft except a 7th rounder or UDFA. We've put the majority of our recent premium draft picks and FA money (Faine's contract being worth more than Bryant's, Stevens', Garcia's, P-Buc's, and June's combined) into the line. If we feel compelled to spend more on the upgrading the insurance policies on the line than we do to put solid starters at other positions of more significant need, then I don't trust our ability to run a team over a 4 year old's.
Agree wholeheartedly on Smith. He's our worst TE and could easily be upgraded. I'm so used to a lack of production from the position that I've been conditioned to accept mediocre receiving threats. Forgive me for that, but having 2 above-average TEs and 1 average one sounds good to me....at least compared to what I'm used to.

Again....agree on TE. Agree on OL (not using a high draft pick), but it's definitely not set as I said earlier. We have holes, and signing some depth would be the best bet. I'm not convinced about Black as SLB, but June would be an acceptable replacement for Brooks. I agree about Hayes and I think he has more potential than any of our backups. We still need more depth though.

June has been a mediocre SLB. For a guy who's undersized and makes few plays in the backfield, he also misses a lot of open-field tackles. I was a fan of his in Indy so I'm willing to give him a chance at WLB. I never really thought of that but thanks for bringing up the idea. Hayes played better than Hayward, but in limited minutes. I didn't include him in the discussion because there wasn't enough evidence.

Did I say I wanted us to prioritize upgrading backups over starters? I don't think I did. That's just one of our needs. I'm laying it all on the table. I'd like to find one more reliable OT and a better LB than McCoy....that's it. That's a luxury in the draft that I'm not sure we will have.

Jerry could play either position. People think just because he's explosive and athletic that he has to play UT, but he truly has the build, strength and leverage of a NT. If Haye is done like you say he is, than Jerry would go to UT. If Haye gets revived, then Jerry would be an upgrade over Hovan. Sims fell off late in the season. Up until that point he was a helpful contributor. We have to assess whether or not he's committed to the team over a full year, and his motor.

Again....I said OL was a secondary option. I understand your frustration with spending so many resources on the line, but the reality is that we still have holes. Trueblood is a liability as a pass protector and with his temper. Signing competition or switching some positions along the line wouldn't hurt. A late-round draft pick wouldn't do much so the draft is likely not an option unless we score big at other positions in FA (unlikely).
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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I just don't think the OL is going to come into play much this off-season, nor should it. We might pick up a UDFA or sign someone Torrin Tucker-like. The staff seems to be high on Lee as a swing tackle, they love Zuttah as everyone knows, and he's played both guard spots so far and played RT in college, and of course we have Sean Mahan........whatever that counts for......

We probably don't have anymore OL spots open, unless someone new beats out one of those 3. And not spending anything of worth on the line, I don't think that has much of a chance of happening. Though with our success in Penn and Davis, I won't say it's impossible. Just highly improbable.

Obviously, with him playing NT at Ole Miss, I don't think he's some one-dimensional pass rusher. I'd MUCH rather have Hovan/Jerry start than Jerry/Haye. While it would be a big upgrade to have someone who can rush the passer from the NT position, it would almost be a waste. The responsibilities are focused to the run and gap control too much for him to really let loose on the rush. Not only would Jerry be better utilized at UT, but having his improved run play next to Hovan who is still good against the run.

I actually thought Sims was our worst DT last year, not including Peterson or Carter who were both tweeners who I don't see roster-worthy next year. To be real honest, I'd rather give Dre Moore a chance at back-up NT.

We'd have to score at a LOT of positions to even entertain the idea of drafting another OL before the last round and a half (guys who historically under Gruden here don't even last a year).
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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I think Jerry would be much better suited at UT.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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How would you guys feel about us drafting Rhett Bomar, I'd guess in the 3rd, maybe as high as the 2nd?
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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I was thinking about Bomar too but I guess he disapointed at the Senior Bowl. I would stay away from Josh Freeman because he has bust written all over him. Nate Davis is a guy I dont know anything about and is intriguing.

I think we might be better trying to find a guy through FA like Boller or Leftwich or resign McCown and then draft a QB next year.

In the first i like Raji/Jerry/Maclin/Harvin in that order.
In the second i like QB (if we fall in love with someone)/WR/RB
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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No Bucs videos on your youtube...I'm a subscriber now.
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Old 01-27-2009, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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i want maclin
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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I want Nicks. Or Harvin. Depends what we do in FA. 2 1st rounders would be nice for Jerry and a WR.
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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I just finished watching the Skill challenge on DVR. I got a new draft strategy now. Draft Nicks in the 1st and Nate Davis in the 2nd. Trade Trueblood and another pick to get another 2nd and draft someone like Evander Hood or Paul Kruger.
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