Cassel to be franchised - Page 2

nrk · 01-04-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

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Nor does he lose games, and as a fan who got to watch the kid all season, hes a solid qb, better then alot of other qbs starting in this league.

So are his line and receivers.

Jvig43 · 01-04-2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrk

So are his line and receivers.

So why did Matt leinhart, the guy Cassell backed up in school, have such a hard time getting a starting role in the Cardinals dynamic offense?

diabsoule · 01-04-2009, 11:22 PM

If he is franchised I really don't see a team giving up a 1st and 3rd just to get him. That's too much especially if you're in a position to get a top notch QB in the draft. And yes, I'm talking about you, Detroit.

Brent · 01-04-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

So why did Matt leinhart, the guy Cassell backed up in school, have such a hard time getting a starting role in the Cardinals dynamic offense?

Because Kurt Warner has more experience, the Cards have a weak running game and Warner is better suited for a pass heavy offense. Oh and Leinart isnt Wisenhunt's guy, he has no obligation to start him.

Jvig43 · 01-04-2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent

Because Kurt Warner has more experience, the Cards have a weak running game and Warner is better suited for a pass heavy offense. Oh and Leinart isnt Wisenhunt's guy, he has no obligation to start him.

My point was that a better line and wrs dosent always make a Qb great, it certainly helps but i think Cassell showed later in the season he was capable of making good decision and getting the job done.

Jvig43 · 01-04-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule

If he is franchised I really don't see a team giving up a 1st and 3rd just to get him. That's too much especially if you're in a position to get a top notch QB in the draft. And yes, I'm talking about you, Detroit.

One can only hope........

nrk · 01-04-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

So why did Matt leinhart, the guy Cassell backed up in school, have such a hard time getting a starting role in the Cardinals dynamic offense?

Because they're two different people and he was put in a worse situation. Arizona doesn't have a top 10 defense.

Jvig43 · 01-04-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrk

Because they're two different people and he was put in a worse situation. Arizona doesn't have a top 10 defense.

And the Pats do? I'm sorry but were talking about a starting position not whose team is winning more games. Leinhart didnt lose the position because he had a bad D, and Cassell didnt play well because our D did. For his first real playing time since high school, the kid did a phenomenal job in his first year as a starter. He had a great offense, but he was also making alot of the right decisions and throws.

goodlookin · 01-05-2009, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menardo75

And most of the loses were because of his mistakes.

wow thats profound insight since close losses usually come down to mistakes at certain positions such as quarterbacks. I bet 90% of all losses in Brett Farve's career were because of his mistakes yet hes consider one of the best ever by some, your probably in that lot. Grow up micky mouse, just for comparision Cassel is better then all of the quarterbacks in the NFC North, West minus rodgers and warner. Anyway for someone who balled out in his first year, get off his back

JeffSamardzijaIRISH · 01-05-2009, 12:06 AM

What about the Jets as a possible destination?

Jvig43 · 01-05-2009, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH

What about the Jets as a possible destination?

No way NE trades him to anyone in our own conference.

OzTitan · 01-05-2009, 12:28 AM

Cassell will probably get a Schaub like trade and contract, and while he deserved it much more than Schaub did, ultimately I'm not sure he'll be a better QB. He's a QB that relies a lot on YAC and, I dunno what it is about NE, but I can't help but feel it is just a great place to be a QB right now - the coaching, the targets, the offense etc. He's a promising young QB but I have a feeling one team is going to overpay and get a little disappointed.

aNYtitan · 01-05-2009, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule

If he is franchised I really don't see a team giving up a 1st and 3rd just to get him. That's too much especially if you're in a position to get a top notch QB in the draft. And yes, I'm talking about you, Detroit.

I always thought it was two first rounders for a franchised player? Anyways, even if it is a first and a third, I doubt any team would be willing to do that for any player, unless the picks are later in the round. This is less to do with Brady's health (though that is a big concern) then it has to do with keeping Cassell from joining the Jets given that Favre is more then likely done playing football

Bengalsrocket · 01-05-2009, 12:43 AM

I guess I'm confused - or maybe I just missed it. But I don't get why people don't like Cassel. It seems to me people get away with the "system QB" argument to easily.

What makes him only able to produce in the Patriots system? His footwork is bad? He's got a weak arm? He's not accurate enough? He can't scramble? His release is to slow? He doesn't know how to read a defense?

And then, I have to ask - what system allows him to get away with out any one of those things (or multiple of them) and why can't a team reproduce it? Is an 89.4 passer rating with 270 rushing yards and 2 rushing TD's not worth reproducing simply because it's a "system" that got him those stats?

Anyways, If we're arguing just talent, then maybe I could concede. Though the offensive line did give up 48 sacks - how anyone thinks that is good I have no idea. And as far as the receivers and running backs go, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a team who didn't already have a decent running back and at least 1 good receiver that was actually interested in picking up Matt Cassel.

Babylon · 01-05-2009, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabsoule

If he is franchised I really don't see a team giving up a 1st and 3rd just to get him. That's too much especially if you're in a position to get a top notch QB in the draft. And yes, I'm talking about you, Detroit.

I wouldn't do it but i could see the Vikings giving up a 1st and 3rd.

OzTitan · 01-05-2009, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aNYtitan

I always thought it was two first rounders for a franchised player? Anyways, even if it is a first and a third, I doubt any team would be willing to do that for any player, unless the picks are later in the round. This is less to do with Brady's health (though that is a big concern) then it has to do with keeping Cassell from joining the Jets given that Favre is more then likely done playing football

I think the set-in-stone DP criteria for trades are for transition players only. Transition tagged players can field offers from other teams but the team offering has to give up a set draft pick or two if the host team doesn't match - like some RFA tenders. IIRC, Franchise tagged players are unavailable for offers from other teams contract wise, but since they're on 1 year deal that hasn't yet become guaranteed, teams can proceed to trade a franchised player at their own lesuire with their own demands.

nrk · 01-05-2009, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

And the Pats do? I'm sorry but were talking about a starting position not whose team is winning more games. Leinhart didnt lose the position because he had a bad D, and Cassell didnt play well because our D did. For his first real playing time since high school, the kid did a phenomenal job in his first year as a starter. He had a great offense, but he was also making alot of the right decisions and throws.

Yeah because a bad defense doesn't make you come back from behind and a good defense doesn't give the offense good starting field position.

OzTitan · 01-05-2009, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket

I guess I'm confused - or maybe I just missed it. But I don't get why people don't like Cassel. It seems to me people get away with the "system QB" argument to easily.

What makes him only able to produce in the Patriots system? His footwork is bad? He's got a weak arm? He's not accurate enough? He can't scramble? His release is to slow? He doesn't know how to read a defense?

And then, I have to ask - what system allows him to get away with out any one of those things (or multiple of them) and why can't a team reproduce it? Is an 89.4 passer rating with 270 rushing yards and 2 rushing TD's not worth reproducing simply because it's a "system" that got him those stats?

Anyways, If we're arguing just talent, then maybe I could concede. Though the offensive line did give up 48 sacks - how anyone thinks that is good I have no idea. And as far as the receivers and running backs go, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a team who didn't already have a decent running back and at least 1 good receiver that was actually interested in picking up Matt Cassel.

It's not about not liking him as a QB - I do. I just don't know how you can give up so much for a guy who is very likely going to be brought into a worse situation than he was this season. Just about anywhere else is likely going to be a downgrade for him. He may get better regardless, but he may not.

I think the Pats have 2 players in the top 3 for YAC in the league - that tells me Cassell's main job is to pass screens and short quick balls to guys like Welker to make the hard yards. This won't be possible on every team. Probably not any other team like the Pats in any case. If he is going to be asked to go downfield more, can he like an NFL starter? too big a question for me to give up an early pick and a big deal, but then Schaub got one so he probably will too.

SuperKevin · 01-05-2009, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

a single player doesnt win nor does he loses games

No but Donovan McNabb can singlehandedly cause a game to end in a tie

nrk · 01-05-2009, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzTitan

It's not about not liking him as a QB - I do. I just don't know how you can give up so much for a guy who is very likely going to be brought into a worse situation than he was this season. Just about anywhere else is likely going to be a downgrade for him. He may get better regardless, but he may not.

I think the Pats have 2 players in the top 3 for YAC in the league - that tells me Cassell's main job is to pass screens and short quick balls to guys like Welker to make the hard yards. This won't be possible on every team. Probably not any other team like the Pats in any case. If he is going to be asked to go downfield more, can he like an NFL starter? too big a question for me to give up an early pick and a big deal, but then Schaub got one so he probably will too.

Yeah, I'm not trying to say hes bad or anything, but he was put in the one of the best offenses with a great defense. He was put in a perfect situation. He knew the system very well from his time there as well. I just don't think hes worth a first rounder when you really don't know how he will perform in a new system with a lesser supporting cast.

umphrey · 01-05-2009, 01:38 AM

I think it's pretty obvious that they will franchise him and trade him and never end up paying him. We did the exact same thing with Corey Williams last year.

OzTitan · 01-05-2009, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrk

Yeah, I'm not trying to say hes bad or anything, but he was put in the one of the best offenses with a great defense. He was put in a perfect situation. He knew the system very well from his time there as well. I just don't think hes worth a first rounder when you really don't know how he will perform in a new system with a lesser supporting cast.

With that said though, if you're a team who fancies taking a QB in the 1st round or early 2nd round, then Cassell should be in the equation for your pick. From that perspective, he may be a better option than a rookie.

MetSox17 · 01-05-2009, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aNYtitan

I always thought it was two first rounders for a franchised player? Anyways, even if it is a first and a third, I doubt any team would be willing to do that for any player, unless the picks are later in the round. This is less to do with Brady's health (though that is a big concern) then it has to do with keeping Cassell from joining the Jets given that Favre is more then likely done playing football

It's two first rounders should you sign him to a contract while he's under the franchise tag. A first and a third is when you offer a RFA the highest tender possible and he still signs elsewhere.

Now, with that out of the way, obviously there would be no team willing to give up two first round picks for him, so the Patriots would be smart to lower their asking price for his acquisition. A second plus a third, or a second and two thirds seems reasonable to me if you're a team like the Vikings, Bears, Niners, heck, even the Panthers. I don't think the Detroit Lions or Kansas City Chiefs are in any position to give up their draft picks for Cassell. They're just too valuable right now.

OzTitan · 01-05-2009, 04:51 AM

As I pointed out, I'm fairly sure you can't send an offer sheet in on a franchised player. He's exclusively the rights of the team he's being franchised by - the only way to get him would be to propose a trade to the team that franchised him. The two 1sts thing comes from the seldom used transition tag.

Edit: actually it seems there are exclusive and non-exclusive franchise tags. The one with 2 1sts is the non-exclusive variant. I'm not sure how frequent it is used, but I'm fairly sure most franchise tags are exclusive.

MetSox17 · 01-05-2009, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzTitan

As I pointed out, I'm fairly sure you can't send an offer sheet in on a franchised player. He's exclusively the rights of the team he's being franchised by - the only way to get him would be to propose a trade to the team that franchised him. The two 1sts thing comes from the seldom used transition tag.

Look it up, i'm not 100% positive, but unless he is offered the "exclusive rights" Franchise tag, he is free to sign with any team he wants. The team can either match the offer, or the offering team forfeits two first round picks.