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Old 12-30-2008, 03:23 PM    (permalink
PACKmanN
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Originally Posted by bigboiajhawk View Post
Why would we need to swith defenses to draft Maualuga? Hawk-Maualuga-Barnett would be really amazing. Barnett has already got his MLB money in his new contract, so I feel he would be more apt to make a change. TT drafts BPA as he says he does, so I think Rey will be high on his list because he is the best player on the best defense in college football.
Barnett will not move outside, he has said it over and over...
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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The rest of 'us' are NOT saying that.
The rest of 'us' know that Mister Thompson doesn't draft according to his positional depth charts.

BPA is the way he goes. As much as many people do not like that route he chooses, THAT is how he drafts. So forget about our positional depth charts and who you think is good, not good, not good enough, needs to be replaced, etc. You say drafting a linebacker high would be a big mistake. Are you satisfied with our LB play and the way they cover TEs and RBs? The only LB that I noticed blowing up holes in the backfield this year EVER was Desmond Bishop 2 times.

Here's what we can all wonder though: Was Justin Harrell really the BPA out of any position when Ted took him? If he thought so, that's bad.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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The rest of 'us' are NOT saying that.
I'm not talking about that point specifically, I'm talking about the way you come across as a poster to the rest of the fans on this site. There's a reason that you've faced a lot of resistance here.

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BPA is the way he goes. As much as many people do not like that route he chooses, THAT is how he drafts. So forget about our positional depth charts and who you think is good, not good, not good enough, needs to be replaced, etc.
Trust me, I realize that he drafts BPA. However, I think it is BPA within reason. Unless he has plans for either Hawk or Barnett in the next few years, I just can't see him taking a linebacker as high as the ninth pick. I don't think that second round and later on is out of the question though.

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You say drafting a linebacker high would be a big mistake. Are you satisfied with our LB play and the way they cover TEs and RBs?
As I said earlier, I still think it would be a mistake if he wasn't planning on doing anything with Hawk or Barnett in the next few years. For the play of the linebackers, I think its obvious that a good portion of the blame lies with them, but I still think that we can help them out a lot by getting better pressure from the defensive line and giving them some space to make plays. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to invest a high pick in the defensive line.

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Here's what we can all wonder though: Was Justin Harrell really the BPA out of any position when Ted took him? If he thought so, that's bad.
That is a good question. Obviously only Ted knows what he was thinking, but I don't think he thought that Harrell was the BPA at that point in time. However, I do think that he felt that Harrell had a high ceiling and he just kind of rolled the dice on whether or not he would be able to stay healthy. Of course, that hasn't worked in our favor so far, but I still think there is a chance (rather slim) that he can pull it around.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AtariBigby View Post
The rest of 'us' are NOT saying that.
The rest of 'us' know that Mister Thompson doesn't draft according to his positional depth charts.

BPA is the way he goes. As much as many people do not like that route he chooses, THAT is how he drafts. So forget about our positional depth charts and who you think is good, not good, not good enough, needs to be replaced, etc. You say drafting a linebacker high would be a big mistake. Are you satisfied with our LB play and the way they cover TEs and RBs? The only LB that I noticed blowing up holes in the backfield this year EVER was Desmond Bishop 2 times.

Here's what we can all wonder though: Was Justin Harrell really the BPA out of any position when Ted took him? If he thought so, that's bad.
How the hell is he going to improve that? He is a terrible cover guy who is better suited for a 34, aka Willis...get your stuff straight.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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How the hell is he going to improve that? He is a terrible cover guy who is better suited for a 34, aka Willis...get your stuff straight.
I agree with what you're saying, but you're wrong there. Willis is probably better suited for a 4-3, and he is no where near Willis.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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I agree with what you're saying, but you're wrong there. Willis is probably better suited for a 4-3, and he is no where near Willis.
I agree, I'm just saying that asking Maualuga to cover running backs and tight ends in this league at a 43 scheme is the dumbest thing to ask. He is a great run stuffer and rusher, not covering. Plus, we will not even draft him because there no need or reason for him.

We need to get a guy with better philosophy then changing the scheme.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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I agree, I'm just saying that asking Maualuga to cover running backs and tight ends in this league at a 43 scheme is the dumbest thing to ask. He is a great run stuffer and rusher, not covering. Plus, we will not even draft him because there no need or reason for him.

We need to get a guy with better philosophy then changing the scheme.
Oh I get that, and you're right on there. Just saying that bringing up Willis didn't make any sense.
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Old 12-31-2008, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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I'm not talking about that point specifically, I'm talking about the way you come across as a poster to the rest of the fans on this site. There's a reason that you've faced a lot of resistance here.
The reason I go after the resistance here is because the one guy from Canada with the ugly mugshot avatar believes that because he had 2 pages of discussion about the 3-4 (weeks ago before I came back into the forum), that it's a done deal and that he proved that no team should ever switch to a 3-4 because it takes too long.

We are the YOUNGEST team in the NFL statistically. What team should change to it, the oldest team in the NFL?

I understand the point he'd like to make that this defense has been carefully hand-crafted and molded to dominate only in a 4-3 scheme. The problem with that theory is it's not true.
Hawk and Barnett would be better in a 3-4, and I think Desmond Bishop could even be an effective 3-4 ILB.

And only having to roll out 3 DL instead of 4 would actually be a good thing for this team as we have seen that our DL depth sucks. Plus I think Cullen Jenkins is better than Aaron Kampman at this point in their careers and CJ would be a great 3-4 DE. Perfect blend of size and agility.

Besides that, and there's been plenty of discussion in the media THIS week about possible scheme changes, no kid GB12 or PACKmanN, is going to tell me that they already covered this week ago and proved that there's no way or reason for the team to switch so just drop it. Nobody tells me what to say or not to say, especially when I am correct. Plus arrigo told me Nolan will be the guy and he will switch it to a 3-4, so there.
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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The reason I go after the resistance here is because the one guy from Canada with the ugly mugshot avatar believes that because he had 2 pages of discussion about the 3-4 (weeks ago before I came back into the forum), that it's a done deal and that he proved that no team should ever switch to a 3-4 because it takes too long.

We are the YOUNGEST team in the NFL statistically. What team should change to it, the oldest team in the NFL?

I understand the point he'd like to make that this defense has been carefully hand-crafted and molded to dominate only in a 4-3 scheme. The problem with that theory is it's not true.
Hawk and Barnett would be better in a 3-4, and I think Desmond Bishop could even be an effective 3-4 ILB.

And only having to roll out 3 DL instead of 4 would actually be a good thing for this team as we have seen that our DL depth sucks. Plus I think Cullen Jenkins is better than Aaron Kampman at this point in their careers and CJ would be a great 3-4 DE. Perfect blend of size and agility.

Besides that, and there's been plenty of discussion in the media THIS week about possible scheme changes, no kid GB12 or PACKmanN, is going to tell me that they already covered this week ago and proved that there's no way or reason for the team to switch so just drop it. Nobody tells me what to say or not to say, especially when I am correct. Plus arrigo told me Nolan will be the guy and he will switch it to a 3-4, so there.
Explain how Hawk and Barnett would be better in a 3-4.. Look at the Steelers LBers. They can shed blockers AND blitz the quarterback. Both Barnett and Hawk get swallowed up when they blitz or take on an O-linemen. They generate zero pass rush when they blitz.

This is soley my opinion, so you do not need to bash me and go on any more rants.
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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The reason I go after the resistance here is because the one guy from Canada with the ugly mugshot avatar believes that because he had 2 pages of discussion about the 3-4 (weeks ago before I came back into the forum), that it's a done deal and that he proved that no team should ever switch to a 3-4 because it takes too long.

We are the YOUNGEST team in the NFL statistically. What team should change to it, the oldest team in the NFL?

I understand the point he'd like to make that this defense has been carefully hand-crafted and molded to dominate only in a 4-3 scheme. The problem with that theory is it's not true.
Hawk and Barnett would be better in a 3-4, and I think Desmond Bishop could even be an effective 3-4 ILB.

And only having to roll out 3 DL instead of 4 would actually be a good thing for this team as we have seen that our DL depth sucks. Plus I think Cullen Jenkins is better than Aaron Kampman at this point in their careers and CJ would be a great 3-4 DE. Perfect blend of size and agility.

Besides that, and there's been plenty of discussion in the media THIS week about possible scheme changes, no kid GB12 or PACKmanN, is going to tell me that they already covered this week ago and proved that there's no way or reason for the team to switch so just drop it. Nobody tells me what to say or not to say, especially when I am correct. Plus arrigo told me Nolan will be the guy and he will switch it to a 3-4, so there.
Oh so were putting words in other people's mouths now are we...

"Nolan has experience in a 4-3 as well as a 3-4, so my guess is that they would keep a 4-3 and sprinkle a 3-4 look every now and then."
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Old 01-01-2009, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Explain how Hawk and Barnett would be better in a 3-4.. Look at the Steelers LBers. They can shed blockers AND blitz the quarterback. Both Barnett and Hawk get swallowed up when they blitz or take on an O-linemen. They generate zero pass rush when they blitz.

This is soley my opinion, so you do not need to bash me and go on any more rants.
That is what I said in the beginning...we already have terrible mlb play vs. the run now you want to rely on Barnett and Hawk in the middle to stop the run, isn't going to happen.

edit: and weren't the Packers prating some 34 plays during the off-season, you now know how effective it was since we haven't even seen any of the plays used on the field...
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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LBers aren't the damn problem with the run defense. Its a bit difficult for them to constantly shed off Oline blocks because the Dline is crap.

The packers are not switching to a freaking 3-4 either, let it go.
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Old 01-01-2009, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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LBers aren't the damn problem with the run defense. Its a bit difficult for them to constantly shed off Oline blocks because the Dline is crap.

The packers are not switching to a freaking 3-4 either, let it go.
I thought Hawk was decent in the middle. Chillar, to me, should be a starter next year at OLB. If Barnett comes back solid, he could move to OLB. Toss in Poppinga, the guys that TT is bringing along like Lansanah and Havner and a potential first round guy like Malaleuga, that's a really solid LB crew, and a crew that you could go 3-4 with.

Out of any year since 1990 or so, the Packers have the LB crew to switch over, if they choose to do so.

Bob Sanders did not call blitzes often for the LBs, so who actually knows how well these guys rush? Hawk had nine sacks his last year in college. If Sanders is cut, then the new guy might be more of a blitzer and the new guy might decide he has more playmaking LBs than playmaking DLs, which is really the bottom line.

For a three man line, AK, Pickett and Jenkins would be a solid group because they all are solid against the run, and Jenkins and Kampman would be solid rushers, depending on Jenkins' recovery. I could see Jolly as an end and Cole has NT all over him. Given the injuries and legal status, who knows what this group is going to look like in TC.

The fact is that the defense was very dissappointing, didn't get pressure n the QB and couldn't stop opponents at the end of games and instead of being 10-6 (or better) the Packers are 6-10. Whatever we were doing this year didn't work out so good, so it just might be time to look at doing something else. McCarthy has no problem saying that all schemes and personnel will be reviewed:

All of our schemes are under evaluation right now. That's what you do right now. That's what this time is for. We'll look at the run defense, we'll look at all those things. We'll look at the base concepts in normal d-and-d all the way through. That's what you spend the time for. That's why you make educated decisions. It will be no different when I sit down with the offense and special teams.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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Right, none of us know at this point. Hopefully MM has a gameplan though and it includes a big change.
We have a young team, with the best (but old) pair of CB's in the NFL. I can't think of a better time for a mini-roster overhaul than now, on that side of the ball.

Our pathetic DL this year did have A LOT to do with the LBers crappy performance.
As for Hawk and Barnett not being able to shed blocks: Most LBers have trouble shedding blocks from 305-pound OL coming at them.

Now, in an updated sidenote press release, somewhat-related since they are our rivals:
Quote:
EDEN PRAIRIE, Minn. – Plenty of good seats are still available for Minnesota's playoff game against Philadelphia.

The Vikings reported 8,000 tickets remaining at noon New Year's Day for Sunday's game against the Eagles. The NFL has granted an extension until 3:30 p.m. local time Friday to reach a virtual sellout, but the possibility of a local TV blackout looms.

The blackout would not only encompass the Twin Cities, but secondary markets in the region as well. It includes satellite, cable and over-the-air systems, so nobody in the area could watch the game unless they're in attendance at the Metrodome.

Vice president of sales and marketing Steve LaCroix said the team has hired extra holiday help to solicit potential buyers. The Vikings haven't had a game blacked out since 1997.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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I thought Hawk was decent in the middle. Chillar, to me, should be a starter next year at OLB. If Barnett comes back solid, he could move to OLB. Toss in Poppinga, the guys that TT is bringing along like Lansanah and Havner and a potential first round guy like Malaleuga, that's a really solid LB crew, and a crew that you could go 3-4 with.

Out of any year since 1990 or so, the Packers have the LB crew to switch over, if they choose to do so.

Bob Sanders did not call blitzes often for the LBs, so who actually knows how well these guys rush? Hawk had nine sacks his last year in college. If Sanders is cut, then the new guy might be more of a blitzer and the new guy might decide he has more playmaking LBs than playmaking DLs, which is really the bottom line.

For a three man line, AK, Pickett and Jenkins would be a solid group because they all are solid against the run, and Jenkins and Kampman would be solid rushers, depending on Jenkins' recovery. I could see Jolly as an end and Cole has NT all over him. Given the injuries and legal status, who knows what this group is going to look like in TC.

The fact is that the defense was very dissappointing, didn't get pressure n the QB and couldn't stop opponents at the end of games and instead of being 10-6 (or better) the Packers are 6-10. Whatever we were doing this year didn't work out so good, so it just might be time to look at doing something else. McCarthy has no problem saying that all schemes and personnel will be reviewed:

All of our schemes are under evaluation right now. That's what you do right now. That's what this time is for. We'll look at the run defense, we'll look at all those things. We'll look at the base concepts in normal d-and-d all the way through. That's what you spend the time for. That's why you make educated decisions. It will be no different when I sit down with the offense and special teams.
and you don't need to something dumb and drastic by changing the scheme to get results, just a change in the philosophy of a DC will give you results.

BTW, would you really want to use another first round pick and bring in a LB? like you said, A LB will not be successful unless you give him linemen in front of him to eat up blockers. IMO, the LB position is the least important on an defense.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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BTW, would you really want to use another first round pick and bring in a LB? like you said, A LB will not be successful unless you give him linemen in front of him to eat up blockers. IMO, the LB position is the least important on an defense.
That part is a good point but here's the thinking:
LBers in the draft consistently have much more immediate impact than do DL guys, especially rookie DEs. Look at Vernon Gholson and even Chris Long this year. They didn't have anywhere the impact that recent rookie LB studs like Patrick Willis, Jerod Mayo have. Most defensive rookie of the years are LBers.

With that being said, it would require that TT utilizes free agency to address the DL position prior to drafting the LB. I'm sure we won't land Haynesworth though, sadly. He'd change everything.
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Old 01-01-2009, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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That part is a good point but here's the thinking:
LBers in the draft consistently have much more immediate impact than do DL guys, especially rookie DEs. Look at Vernon Gholson and even Chris Long this year. They didn't have anywhere the impact that recent rookie LB studs like Patrick Willis, Jerod Mayo have. Most defensive rookie of the years are LBers.

With that being said, it would require that TT utilizes free agency to address the DL position prior to drafting the LB. I'm sure we won't land Haynesworth though, sadly. He'd change everything.
Vernon Gohlston was drafted to be a 3-4 LB...
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Old 01-01-2009, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AtariBigby View Post
That part is a good point but here's the thinking:
LBers in the draft consistently have much more immediate impact than do DL guys, especially rookie DEs. Look at Vernon Gholson and even Chris Long this year. They didn't have anywhere the impact that recent rookie LB studs like Patrick Willis, Jerod Mayo have. Most defensive rookie of the years are LBers.

With that being said, it would require that TT utilizes free agency to address the DL position prior to drafting the LB. I'm sure we won't land Haynesworth though, sadly. He'd change everything.
I'm not giving a player big money who hasn't played a full season. Long is more of a run stuffer then he was a pass rusher. I think Long needs to develop into a pass rusher while Gholston is a 34 OLB.
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Old 01-01-2009, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Why are you so paranoid about the defensive scheme?
Unreal. It it ain't broken, don't fix it.
If it IS BROKEN, fix it.
Band-Aids don't work. You'll learn that someday son. Hopefully.

Nice mock the guy made, by the way.

If nolan is hired and wants to run a 3-4 fine by me, however that's not something that can happen with the players the packers have now. First and foremost you need a nosetackle that can handle getting swallowed up every play for 3 hours. There are no Casey Hamptons in FA or the draft and to run the 3-4 you need one of those like the Steelers and Ravens have. Also you need pass running LB's, we don't have those either.

My point is that you need to have a couple of off-seasons to get the right players in to run the 3-4 right.

Also looking at the FA class this year, it's not great by any means however the Dolphins didn't sign any big name FA's last season, they brought in some role playing veteren free agents, had a great draft and committed to playing defense. We know the packers can draft, now lets sign some veteren mid-level free agents and get a DC that can coach. If the Dolphins and Falcons can turn around their teams the Packers can do the same.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:12 AM    (permalink
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What's the size comps of Casey Hampton of the Steelers, and Ryan Pickett?
Anyone?
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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What's the size comps of Casey Hampton of the Steelers, and Ryan Pickett?
Anyone?
Hampton : 6'1" 325
Pickett : 6'2" 330
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Hampton : 6'1" 325
Pickett : 6'2" 330
But that does not mean that Pickett would be any better as an NT than he is at DT. Please can we move on from the 3-4 talk.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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All you Madden kids need to learn the NFL isn't a video game. You don't just go switching schemes completely in the middle of a building process. The only way the Packers go 3-4 is if McCarthy gets canned and they bring in a coach who runs the 3-4. It doesn't even make sense to the make the switch, the Packers don't have a single player who would be an effective pass rusher in the 3-4 (which is what the scheme is built on, getting after the quarterback).
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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But that does not mean that Pickett would be any better as an NT than he is at DT. Please can we move on from the 3-4 talk.
He wanted to the numbers, so I gave him the numbers...I do not support a switch to a 3-4; it's idiotic.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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He wanted to the numbers, so I gave him the numbers...I do not support a switch to a 3-4; it's idiotic.
I know dude. It's just starting to annoy me that this debate is still going on even though the vast majority of us are severely against it.
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