#20 Overall?

Xiomera · 01-08-2009, 01:04 PM

Let's play a hypothetical game here . . . let's assume the Lions go with Matt Stafford (or a different QB, or even Andre Smith at #1).

Which defensive player do you want at #20?

I'm only gonna list guys that I think could potentially be there for us to select (so no Rey Maualuga, sorry).

Let the debate begin . . .

Xiomera · 01-08-2009, 01:08 PM

I'm wavering between B.J. Raji and Brandon Spikes.

I like both of them a lot. I guess it just depends on which one is there.

In the past 24 hours I have leaned towards Spikes, but I'd be fine with both.

Third choice would be Davis I think.

DoWnThEfiElD · 01-08-2009, 01:17 PM

Really good idea for a poll. I voted Spikes. I don't see a MLB with his size and speed around. If our D-Line can improve I think he could be very sucessful with us.

I know there is a lot of people who like Raji, I just haven't seen enough of him to vote for him.

DoWnThEfiElD · 01-08-2009, 01:20 PM

I would also be pretty happy with Vonte Davis, just because ever since his frosh year he has been pretty dominating. I think he athletism is off the charts and will translate well to the NFL.

However I don't see a corner being able to do well yet with the Lions because of our poor front 7 play. So because of that I would rather not see them use a first rounder on a DB this year.

Xiomera · 01-08-2009, 01:20 PM

I heard on sports radio today, someone combined the Individual Tackles stats from the past two seasons on Maualuga, Spikes, and Laurinaitis. Spikes was ahead by a lot over the other two. Spikes also had the most tackles for loss by a pretty wide margin.

I think solo tackles is far more telling than total tackles. I wanna know what plays these guys make on their own in space.

Maybe Next Year Millen2 · 01-08-2009, 01:33 PM

Picture Spikes. Now picture a large 300 lb guard at the second level blocking Spikes. Without a stud DT, that is how it will be for Spikes/Laurinitus until we get one. And as far as stud DTs, I only see BJ Raji.

MLBs are only as good as the DTs in front of them.

Xiomera · 01-08-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

Picture Spikes. Now picture a large 300 lb guard at the second level blocking Spikes. Without a stud DT, that is how it will be for Spikes/Laurinitus until we get one. And as far as stud DTs, I only see BJ Raji.

MLBs are only as good as the DTs in front of them.

I won't argue with that logic at all. I love Raji too. I think there's a greater chance Spikes is there at 20 than Raji though.

Maybe Next Year Millen2 · 01-08-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiomera

I won't argue with that logic at all. I love Raji too. I think there's a greater chance Spikes is there at 20 than Raji though.

I thought the poll was if both were there at 20, who would you want. I like Spikes as well. He will improve our pass coverage by LBs tremendously. But if Raji is supposed to be gone before that and falls to 20, Raji would be BPA by that logic and at a more important position IMO. Raji has more of an impact because he'll help whoever the MLB is(veteran or rookie), help Corey Redding(who clearly needs it and is a better player with a stud next to him), and provide a pass rush(indirectly helping the DEs and CBs). Nobody double teams a Linebacker.

I'd accept Spikes and then Brace later, but we lose the pass rush aspect.

Babylon · 01-08-2009, 01:44 PM

I think some of those defenders will be there at the top of round 2. My take is there is a potential probowl tackle sitting at 20. That is where i would look.

Xiomera · 01-08-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

I think some of those defenders will be there at the top of round 2. My take is there is a potential probowl tackle sitting at 20. That is where i would look.

Who's that Pro Bowl tackle gonna be? Britton?

I just don't see it. Every OT that'll be there at 20 could just as easily be there at 33, IMO.

Xiomera · 01-08-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

I thought the poll was if both were there at 20, who would you want. I like Spikes as well. He will improve our pass coverage by LBs tremendously. But if Raji is supposed to be gone before that and falls to 20, Raji would be BPA by that logic and at a more important position IMO. Raji has more of an impact because he'll help whoever the MLB is(veteran or rookie), help Corey Redding(who clearly needs it and is a better player with a stud next to him), and provide a pass rush(indirectly helping the DEs and CBs). Nobody double teams a Linebacker.

I'd accept Spikes and then Brace later, but we lose the pass rush aspect.

Yeah, I sorta broke my own rule. I'd be more than happy with them both.

Yesterday if I made this I'd have voted for Raji and nothing has changed other than I read up on Spikes a little more and was encouraged.

Maybe Next Year Millen2 · 01-08-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiomera

Yeah, I sorta broke my own rule. I'd be more than happy with them both.

Yesterday if I made this I'd have voted for Raji and nothing has changed other than I read up on Spikes a little more and was encouraged.

If Spikes is shedding blocks with ease from Duke Robinson tonight then I'll reconsider but until I see that, I think we need DT.

Babylon · 01-08-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiomera

Who's that Pro Bowl tackle gonna be? Britton?

I just don't see it. Every OT that'll be there at 20 could just as easily be there at 33, IMO.

Let's wait and see who all declares. I think the position as a whole is going to slide a bit because i dont see just a few really standing out and i would project that some of these juniors may turn out better than the seniors. Whether the defender is the 1st choice and then risk waiting 13 picks for the OT is the right move or not time will tell i guess.

Guys that could be there at 20:

Jason Smith
Eben Britton
Brent Williams
Ciron Black

Xiomera · 01-08-2009, 02:02 PM

Jason Smith is the OT I'd want most if I were the Lions. But I don't think there's a chance in hell he makes it out of the Top 10-15. Green Bay is a possible landing spot, IMO.

Jason Smith is the stud pass protector. Andre Smith is the stud run blocker. If people are gonna argue that the Lions need to fix their o-line before getting a QB, they need a guy like Jason, not Andre.

P-L · 01-08-2009, 02:04 PM

I'd take either Raji or Spikes as well. I think I'd prefer Spikes though.

StaticGator · 01-08-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

If Spikes is shedding blocks with ease from Duke Robinson tonight then I'll reconsider but until I see that, I think we need DT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rl9hpVv_vc

Maybe Next Year Millen2 · 01-08-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StaticGator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rl9hpVv_vc

Very impressive but I meant more than one play(because it will be like that every time with the Lions DTs) and maybe a play where he makes the tackle, its not at the very end of the play and the Tackle/Guard isn't overweight after getting beat down all game.

Don Vito · 01-08-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2

Picture Spikes. Now picture a large 300 lb guard at the second level blocking Spikes. Without a stud DT, that is how it will be for Spikes/Laurinitus until we get one. And as far as stud DTs, I only see BJ Raji.

MLBs are only as good as the DTs in front of them.

I voted Raji because of logic along these lines. As corny as it sounds it all starts on the line, and Raji is going to be a good one.

keylime_5 · 01-08-2009, 02:35 PM

I think if you guys go QB at #1 overall, then the next best bet would be a tackle like Michael Oher, Eben Britton, or maybe Trent Williams if he declares. Oher should go somewhere between picks 13 and 20. Laurinaitis intrigues me though to Detroit, he could be Spielman 2.0.

Babylon · 01-08-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5

I think if you guys go QB at #1 overall, then the next best bet would be a tackle like Michael Oher, Eben Britton, or maybe Trent Williams if he declares. Oher should go somewhere between picks 13 and 20. Laurinaitis intrigues me though to Detroit, he could be Spielman 2.0.

I actually think JL will be gone at 20. I agree with you on the tackle. If they draft a Stafford or another QB then that player and Calvin Johnson are your best assets. You strengthen those assets by adding a top flight LT. Detroit needs to think longer term than just this year to rebuild this team.

DoWnThEfiElD · 01-08-2009, 03:07 PM

Ya but there is a good chance a LT at 20 would still be there at 33

Prowler · 01-08-2009, 03:48 PM

if trent williams declares then i want him, he'd be the guy that we would select in the top 5 of next year's draft. but that being said, out of these guys i'd prefer vontae davis because we can grab our space eating DT in the 3rd round. davis has the elite skills plus i don't want a world where fisher is our best cb and only four players on our team have interceptions and they only have 1 each. mlb can be had in the 2nd. my option #2 is everette brown and it is really really close. i love brown's moves.

keylime_5 · 01-08-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoWnThEfiElD

Ya but there is a good chance a LT at 20 would still be there at 33

that's not the attitude they should take though. If Eben Britton or Trent Williams or Michael Oher are there and they are higher on their board than a linebacker or DE or whoever, they they'll take a left tackle. You won't get any guarantees with who'll be left at 33, especially if they are a good left tackle. Just look at last year where freakin' Duane Brown went in the first after a series of tradeups. Besides, teams like Philly, PIttsburgh, and Minnesota definitely should be in the market for a good tackle.

Maybe Next Year Millen2 · 01-08-2009, 03:55 PM

As far as taking a tackle at 20, I think we need defense way way too much. 171 yards/game run D gives you no chance to win. LTs can come in and play faster than most DTs. LTs need time to develop too but DTs need more time IMO.

1) we can address the line via new guards in FA,Round 2 or probably Round 3. Especially if Raji is on the board at 20
2) Is Stafford/QB playing right away? Probably shouldn't and a rookie LT with a rookie QB just sounds like a disaster to me. Worked for Atlanta. I still don't know how. They have a little better guard/center and better run blocking/RB in Atlanta, but who knows if Stafford is as smart as Ryan right away in getting rid of the ball. It will be tough for a rookie LT to be better than Backus anyway. Backus has started like 100 straight games. He's far from good but he's good enough in 09 to protect somebody not named Stafford. And even if Stafford does play in the second half of the season(which he should once our season tanks in 09), Backus won't get Stafford killed if he has a better LG, Gosder is a year more developed and we have another decent guard at least enough to run the ball with Kevin Smith.
3) Get a LT in 2010 unless Stafford like Matt Ryan fixes the sack problem by getting rid of the ball quicker.

DEs our LT will face in 09, Chris Long,Arizona(Berry still?),Kerney(is he a LE),Justin Smith,Jared Allen twice, Alex Brown/Mark Anderson twice,Cullen Jenkins twice(maybe Orakpo for GB),Harrison/Aaron Smith,Suggs(maybe),Corey Williams,Cincy DE,Andre Carter,Will Smith. Some tough matchups but not as bad as this year.

WMD · 01-08-2009, 04:43 PM

I'd rather take a DT, LB, or CB.. but Greg Hardy is my man crush. Unfortunately, we don't need him. To me, it comes down to Raji or Spikes. I don't know who. I'll throw another name out there though.. how about Trevard Lindley?