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Old 01-10-2009, 01:51 AM    (permalink
5 Fingers of Death
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Default For people who say we should draft all defense

There are 32 teams.

- Our offense is 30th in the league. Our defense 32nd. Pick your poison.
- Our offense passing was ranked 24th in the league in terms of yards/game.
- Our our overall quarterback rating was 29th in the league with 71 quarterback rating.
- We we're sacked 52 times.

I love Taylor Mays, Jenkins, and especially would die for Brandon Spikes. I feel we need to draft 30% offense and 70% defense.

While Jeff Backus needs to be upgraded, we are stuck with his big contract. He would be an equally average guard as he would be a left tackle. Our big weaknesses in our offensive line are our two guards. The problem with drafting a left tackle with the first pick is that you have no one in the latter rounds who you can depend on as quarterbacks. Freeman and Harrell are projects. No free agent quarterback worth it this year. Nobody on your roster to play any better than they did this season. You need to address the QB position but still go out and draft defense.


We have the building blocks in Calvin Johnson and Kevin Smith with the missing link in Stafford. We need to draft Stafford + guard (Canfield or Levitre in the 3rd round) + guard (Louis Vasquez 6th round) and concentrate on defense with the other picks.

We have a chance to draft a linebacker at #20 in James Laurinaitis, Brandon Spikes, or Rey Maualuga. Of course i love Spikes here. We have a chance to draft a very good corner in the second round in Victor Harris or Alphonso Smith. My take is we draft DT (Raji or Jerry) with #20 and draft a linebacker in the 3rd round.

So long story short, our offense is just as bad as our defense. We need to start rebuilding both and not ignore our very poor quarterback and offensive line play.

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Old 01-10-2009, 06:04 AM    (permalink
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The biggest fear I'm sure we all have is we don't want to take the best of a bad QB class. That is exactly how the Matt Millen era started. I think we forget that in reality Harrington was the best QB of that class. But Millen followed that golden rule when there was no franchise QB available. That set us back 4 years. Your point is well taken I'm pretty sure the vast majority of posters here say yeah we should take an offensive player in the first three round and most say it is the #1 pick.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 01-10-2009, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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I agree on the "pick your poison" scenario between D & O .... 70/30 split is ideal by me too. I know you (5 Fingers of Death) love Stafford but I'm still not sold on his consistancy and leadership. I go back and forth? He did not impress me his last game on the field against an avg. MSU defense ...

I would go along with your thought of drafting guard(s) over a tackle based on Backus's $$ ... Herman Johnson is my favorite 2nd/3rd rounder but Canfield is pretty sweet too. Vasquez can pass block we know that, but not sure about his run blocking? Also, Max Unger (G) & AQ Shipley (C) will be future starters in the interior in the league my gut tells me.

I also agree with getting 1 of 3 ILB's. Rey is projecting a bit higher than the #1 pick yet under the #20 pick so unfortunately he is probably out (he's my favorite) but Spikes & JL are very real possibilities at #20 (even maybe Spikes @ #33 would rock)

As for NT ... I think Raji is okay but a little overhyped right now. Watch his partner in crime, Ron Brace, on film. Brace could be a 3rd round steal and really elevated Raji's stats this season imo. I like Brace with Dallas's 3rd round pick and Domonique Johnson/Alphonso Smith/Macho Harris/Darius Butler with the first 3rd round pick. Another space-eater that is not mentioned much here is USC's Fili Moala ... dude's a beast and would probably also be there late 3rd rd.

Overall I'm hoping a DE rises like a phoenix from the ashes as the #1 overall (Orakpo?) instead of a QB for Detroit but this is probably unlikely to happen.
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Old 01-10-2009, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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The biggest fear I'm sure we all have is we don't want to take the best of a bad QB class. That is exactly how the Matt Millen era started. I think we forget that in reality Harrington was the best QB of that class. But Millen followed that golden rule when there was no franchise QB available. That set us back 4 years. Your point is well taken I'm pretty sure the vast majority of posters here say yeah we should take an offensive player in the first three round and most say it is the #1 pick.
Harrington wasnt even the first QB taken that year so it's hard to say he was the best that year.
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Old 01-10-2009, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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While Jeff Backus needs to be upgraded, we are stuck with his big contract. He would be an equally average guard as he would be a left tackle. Our big weaknesses in our offensive line are our two guards. The problem with drafting a left tackle with the first pick is that you have no one in the latter rounds who you can depend on as quarterbacks. Freeman and Harrell are projects. No free agent quarterback worth it this year. Nobody on your roster to play any better than they did this season. You need to address the QB position but still go out and draft defense.

We have the building blocks in Calvin Johnson and Kevin Smith with the missing link in Stafford. We need to draft Stafford + guard (Canfield or Levitre in the 3rd round) + guard (Louis Vasquez 6th round) and concentrate on defense with the other picks.

So long story short, our offense is just as bad as our defense. We need to start rebuilding both and not ignore our very poor quarterback and offensive line play.
If we pass on Bradford or Stafford, then forget about drafting a QB. I'd take Stanton over the rest of them.

Honestly if I was our GM for this off-season I would fix the offense in the draft and use our $30+ million on the defense. I really think free agency is defensive heavy while our picks in the draft have better value with some offensive prospects.

1A Stafford or Bradford
1B BA OT (Jason Smith, Eben Britton, or someone who falls)
2 Mack / Unger / Robinson / Herman Johnson (Mack or Unger could replace Raiola down the line, and Unger has LT experience)

Then you throw your free agency money at the defense!

Kelvin Hayden
Mike Peterson
Angelo Crowell
Dunta Robinson
Igor Olshanky
Phillip Buchanhan
Jabari Greer
Tank Johnson
Dawan Landry

I know theres more and I left our the top tier defensive free agents that we could throw large many at but its unlikely we get one.
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Old 01-10-2009, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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Harrington wasnt even the first QB taken that year so it's hard to say he was the best that year.
Well I guess David Garrard ended up being the best of that class but do you really think that David Carr is/was any better than than Joey?
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 01-10-2009, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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Well I guess David Garrard ended up being the best of that class but do you really think that David Carr is/was any better than than Joey?
I think he showed more tools ate the time of the draft. He had that huge arm and Joey has the accuracy. Very similar to the comparisons of Stafford/Braddford, except that Carr was from a mid-major, not the SEC
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Old 01-10-2009, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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It seems that Joey and Carr were both very highly thought of throughout the league, but IMO, they both got knocked senseless so many times over their first 3 seasons that they developed many bad habits and became gun shy.

IMO, thats the main argument for going LT instead of QB, or atleast going OT at #20, if a good one's available. It's to build up a Oline and a team around them, so they are put into a position to suceed instead of being just a sitting duck while they are forced to adjust to the speed of the game and trying to read the different blitzes and hot reads.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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It seems that Joey and Carr were both very highly thought of throughout the league, but IMO, they both got knocked senseless so many times over their first 3 seasons that they developed many bad habits and became gun shy.

IMO, thats the main argument for going LT instead of QB, or atleast going OT at #20, if a good one's available. It's to build up a Oline and a team around them, so they are put into a position to suceed instead of being just a sitting duck while they are forced to adjust to the speed of the game and trying to read the different blitzes and hot reads.
actually harrington wasnt sacked that often. it was when we had the WCO, we werent giving up too many sacks. whenever he was about to get sacked, he would do his check down to the running backs for gains of 2 yards
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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I think the obvious key is to draft players that are solid and who are starters.

If Mayhew could get all starters with our first five picks, then I don't care what position they are, save only WR of course.

We have way too many holes to say this one or that one is the biggest need. Any solid players at any position would be an improvement, and probably raise the overall level of the team and help others be better also.

Two LB's, a DT, a S and a CB? That's fine with me. Maybe our 27th-ranked pass game would be better if we didn't have to throw from behind all the time.

Two OL's, a franchise QB, a TE and a 2nd RB? That's OK too as long as they were bona fide players who would totally revamp our offense. Our defense would undoubtedly be better if we could keep the other O off the field.

No way all the Lions' problems can be fixed with one draft. We need players who start and are good, at any position, period.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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actually harrington wasnt sacked that often. it was when we had the WCO, we werent giving up too many sacks. whenever he was about to get sacked, he would do his check down to the running backs for gains of 2 yards
It doesnt mean that he wasnt knocked around, thats specifically why I didnt say get sacked. And like I said he developed some bad habits because of the D-pressure. His nickname, among others, was Mr. Checkdown.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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1. offense
1b. defense
2. defense
3. defense
3b. offense

you draft QB and OG with the offense. DT LB and CB with defense. All 5 picks should be starters.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Calvin & Kevin View Post
I think the obvious key is to draft players that are solid and who are starters.

If Mayhew could get all starters with our first five picks, then I don't care what position they are, save only WR of course.

We have way too many holes to say this one or that one is the biggest need. Any solid players at any position would be an improvement, and probably raise the overall level of the team and help others be better also.

Two LB's, a DT, a S and a CB? That's fine with me. Maybe our 27th-ranked pass game would be better if we didn't have to throw from behind all the time.

Two OL's, a franchise QB, a TE and a 2nd RB? That's OK too as long as they were bona fide players who would totally revamp our offense. Our defense would undoubtedly be better if we could keep the other O off the field.

No way all the Lions' problems can be fixed with one draft. We need players who start and are good, at any position, period.
Very well said, it should be BPA all the way. I dont know how disheartening it will be if we pass on a future all-pro because we got tunnel vision on a specific position instead of adapting to the way the draft is flowing.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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It doesnt mean that he wasnt knocked around, thats specifically why I didnt say get sacked. And like I said he developed some bad habits because of the D-pressure. His nickname, among others, was Mr. Checkdown.
yes i do agree, i think harrington was "knocked around" by some men at a prior time in life haha
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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I agree on the "pick your poison" scenario between D & O .... 70/30 split is ideal by me too. I know you (5 Fingers of Death) love Stafford but I'm still not sold on his consistancy and leadership. I go back and forth? He did not impress me his last game on the field against an avg. MSU defense ...

I would go along with your thought of drafting guard(s) over a tackle based on Backus's $$ ... Herman Johnson is my favorite 2nd/3rd rounder but Canfield is pretty sweet too. Vasquez can pass block we know that, but not sure about his run blocking? Also, Max Unger (G) & AQ Shipley (C) will be future starters in the interior in the league my gut tells me.

I also agree with getting 1 of 3 ILB's. Rey is projecting a bit higher than the #1 pick yet under the #20 pick so unfortunately he is probably out (he's my favorite) but Spikes & JL are very real possibilities at #20 (even maybe Spikes @ #33 would rock)

As for NT ... I think Raji is okay but a little overhyped right now. Watch his partner in crime, Ron Brace, on film. Brace could be a 3rd round steal and really elevated Raji's stats this season imo. I like Brace with Dallas's 3rd round pick and Domonique Johnson/Alphonso Smith/Macho Harris/Darius Butler with the first 3rd round pick. Another space-eater that is not mentioned much here is USC's Fili Moala ... dude's a beast and would probably also be there late 3rd rd.

Overall I'm hoping a DE rises like a phoenix from the ashes as the #1 overall (Orakpo?) instead of a QB for Detroit but this is probably unlikely to happen.
I watch these games, maybe i should watch more, but i do not see a guy that dominates for all 4 quarters and all season long in this draft. Even can't miss prospects like Aaron Curry had some bad games. Orakpo for 1-2 quarters will shut down. Oher will get beat for a sack. Andre Smith will get pushed all the way into his quarterback. There is no Orlando Pace or Mario Williams or anybody who plays like Manning. I know this sound bold but Matthew Stafford is a better quarterback (when you give Stafford some time to play and some time to throw his passes) than Eli Manning but not Payton Manning from what i have seen.

I've watched Stafford play and he looks very impressive. He looked horrible against Florida, but who wouldn't look bad against that great defense is his young offensive line.

I know i am preaching to a choir, but for small minority of those who are not sold on Stafford...you are in for a treat. Matthew Stafford is like unexpected gift like a Porshe or BMW in your drive way.
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Old 01-13-2009, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Calvin & Kevin View Post
I think the obvious key is to draft players that are solid and who are starters.

If Mayhew could get all starters with our first five picks, then I don't care what position they are, save only WR of course.

We have way too many holes to say this one or that one is the biggest need. Any solid players at any position would be an improvement, and probably raise the overall level of the team and help others be better also.

Two LB's, a DT, a S and a CB? That's fine with me. Maybe our 27th-ranked pass game would be better if we didn't have to throw from behind all the time.

Two OL's, a franchise QB, a TE and a 2nd RB? That's OK too as long as they were bona fide players who would totally revamp our offense. Our defense would undoubtedly be better if we could keep the other O off the field.

No way all the Lions' problems can be fixed with one draft. We need players who start and are good, at any position, period.
I agree. Just get the guys what will come in, start, and make an impact. How many high picks did Millen make over the years that still haven't contributed? IAF? Stanton? Dizon? Calhoun? Mike Williams?

Those could all have been picks used on starters. None of them ever were even worthy of rotational play.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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I know i am preaching to a choir, but for small minority of those who are not sold on Stafford...you are in for a treat. Matthew Stafford is like unexpected gift like a Porshe or BMW in your drive way.
Yeah except for the fact you got the money for it through a medical malpractice suit. *barf*
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