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Old 02-03-2009, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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If he would have won sunday no question...but now Im not so sure
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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If he would have won sunday no question...but now Im not so sure
it wasn't really his fault that he lost.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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Save that crap for ESPN. That should have no influence what so ever on him making the Hall of Fame. It's for the best football players, not feel good stories.
Well it's not called the Hall of Best Players, though that is primarily what it is. The Hall of Fame is for those that had significant impact on the NFL for the good. Joe Namath is not a HOFr because of his playing ability and stats, in fact he was a rather crappy QB. What he did though was guarantee a major upset that put the AFL teams on the same level as the NFL teams. People will be telling Warner's story for decades, it's an amazing story. I would also challenge anyone to name me 10 QB's that they would put above Warner, including current players. Just off the top of my head I can see an argument for Manning, Brady, Favre, Elway, Young, Montana, Marino, Moon, Fouts, Unitas, Simms, and Kelly...............most of those are stretches in my opinion as well, especially if you just look at how good they were at playing the game as opposed to simply how long they played.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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.I would also challenge anyone to name me 10 QB's that they would put above Warner, including current players. Just off the top of my head I can see an argument for Manning, Brady, Favre, Elway, Young, Montana, Marino, Moon, Fouts, Unitas, Simms, and Kelly...............most of those are stretches in my opinion as well, especially if you just look at how good they were at playing the game as opposed to simply how long they played.
Montana, Elway, Favre, Manning, Brady, Marino, Young, Tarkenton, Unitas, Staubach. That's ten and I could keep going for a while.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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Gayle Sayers is the one guy I can think of who's in the HOF for being great for 5-6 years.

But he was a running back.

As a QB you have to have that sustained greatness for nearly a decade.

Warner does not have that. The middle of his career as a journeymen backup, that is something that should not be ignored.

He needs 3-4 more years to make up for that part of his career. It would not be right based on the precedent of the other QBs in the HOF to let that part of his career slide and allow him to make the HOF if he retired today
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Gayle Sayers is the one guy I can think of who's in the HOF for being great for 5-6 years.

But he was a running back.

As a QB you have to have that sustained greatness for nearly a decade.

Warner does not have that. The middle of his career as a journeymen backup, that is something that should not be ignored.

He needs 3-4 more years to make up for that part of his career. It would not be right based on the precedent of the other QBs in the HOF to let that part of his career slide and allow him to make the HOF if he retired today
You're making the argument for Warner.

Everyone knows that a runningback's career span is extremely short as it is, so why would less time of greatness be better in comparison to a quarterback?
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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You're making the argument for Warner.

Everyone knows that a runningback's career span is extremely short as it is, so why would less time of greatness be better in comparison to a quarterback?
LOL what?

The lifespan of a running back not being high is why it is permissible for a running back to have 5-6 years of greatness and make the HOF.

The lifespan of a quarterback is considered much longer which is why 5 years of greatness is not enough.

The quarterback position is the one where the standard of longevity of greatness has been set to make the HOF.

It would be ridiculous to break that trend for Warner. It would really lower the requirements overall for making the HOF in the future where a guy could have half a dozen great years and the rest of his career could be disregarded completely.

The football HOF could just become the Hall of Very Good.

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Old 02-05-2009, 11:00 AM    (permalink
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LOL what?

The lifespan of a running back not being high is why it is permissible for a running back to have 5-6 years of greatness and make the HOF.

The lifespan of a quarterback is considered much longer which is why 5 years of greatness is not enough.

The quarterback position is the one where the standard of longevity of greatness has been set to make the HOF.

It would be ridiculous to break that trend for Warner. It would really lower the requirements overall for making the HOF in the future where a guy could have half a dozen great years and the rest of his career could be disregarded completely.

The football HOF could just become the Hall of Very Good.
Wait aren't you the same guy who was making an argument for McNabb? The MVPless ringless McNabb. Over a Kurt Warner who has both
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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if Joe Namath made it Kurt Warner should
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Wait aren't you the same guy who was making an argument for McNabb? The MVPless ringless McNabb. Over a Kurt Warner who has both
The same guy who just said McNabb needs close to FOUR MORE YEARS of putting up numbers to make it?
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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if Joe Namath made it Kurt Warner should
That's a horrible argument. "Well, they messed up once and let in a crappy quarterback, now they should just let in every quarterback that managed to maintain his level of mediocrity."

Bah.

I think Warner has earned it, on a slow year. He won't get in quickly or anything, but his playoff performances, two regular season MVP's, overall completion percentage and passer ratings, along with a Superbowl and Superbowl MVP should get him in eventually.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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if Joe Namath made it Kurt Warner should
Joe Namath made it for the guarantee against the Colts in what at the time was the biggest upset in Super Bowl history.

The standard of making the HOF as a QB has been raised significantly since then which is why guys with numbers like those guys had back then would never make it in today's league.


The modern era QB of the 70s, 80s, and 90s, the precedent has been set to make the HOF you better have near a decade of greatness or more or a handful of rings.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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LOL what?

The lifespan of a running back not being high is why it is permissible for a running back to have 5-6 years of greatness and make the HOF.

The lifespan of a quarterback is considered much longer which is why 5 years of greatness is not enough.

The quarterback position is the one where the standard of longevity of greatness has been set to make the HOF.

It would be ridiculous to break that trend for Warner. It would really lower the requirements overall for making the HOF in the future where a guy could have half a dozen great years and the rest of his career could be disregarded completely.

The football HOF could just become the Hall of Very Good.
Longevity is meaningless. Compilers should not get into the Hall. People who dominate should get into the Hall. And for 2 straight years, Warner did just that, he dominated the league. You can be a solid player and get 3 000 yards and 20 TD's for 15 years. But to have 2 of the 10 best seasons ever for a quarterback is to dominate.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Warner has the 3 highest passing totals in Superbowl history.
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Warner has the 3 highest passing totals in Superbowl history.
and the last one was against "the greatest defense of all time"
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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I find this Warner/HoF discussion to be one of the most polarizing topics in the NFL right now.

Proponents point to the postseason performances and MVPs. Detractors point to the gap when he was essentially a seat-warmer for young QBs.

He needs to return for the sake of the Cardinals receivers, or the success that Arizona has enjoyed will be short-lived. Leinart is not in the ballpark right now.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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if Joe Namath made it Kurt Warner should
The circumstances that made Joe Namath a Hall of Famer are completely different than any other player in the Hall, and, thus, cannot be fairly compared to other players.
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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He needs to return for the sake of the Cardinals receivers, or the success that Arizona has enjoyed will be short-lived. Leinart is not in the ballpark right now.
With Leinart still have 3 years left they can keep Warner for 2 more years and than Leinart start for 1 year and decide if they want to resign him long-term based on that. Like what the pack did with Rodgers.
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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Bucs_Rule:

That's fine, but what I am saying is that I do not think Leinart is going to pull it together. He lacks maturity. He had a nice start to his career with that wacky MNF game vs Chicago, but it says something when Arizona does everything possible to allow Leinart to win the job and he still can't do it.
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Bucs_Rule:

That's fine, but what I am saying is that I do not think Leinart is going to pull it together. He lacks maturity. He had a nice start to his career with that wacky MNF game vs Chicago, but it says something when Arizona does everything possible to allow Leinart to win the job and he still can't do it.
Or it says something about Warner...
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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With Leinart still have 3 years left they can keep Warner for 2 more years and than Leinart start for 1 year and decide if they want to resign him long-term based on that. Like what the pack did with Rodgers.
If Leinart sits two more years he'll be 28. After Rodgers was done sitting on the bench he was still just 24.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Longevity is meaningless. Compilers should not get into the Hall. People who dominate should get into the Hall. And for 2 straight years, Warner did just that, he dominated the league. You can be a solid player and get 3 000 yards and 20 TD's for 15 years. But to have 2 of the 10 best seasons ever for a quarterback is to dominate.
So dominating for two years warrants the HOF? Sorry that's just not the case with the QB position whether you want it to be or not.

Hell Daunte Culpepper could be in the HOF if all you had to do was be good for just a couple years and the rest of your career didn't matter.

The bottom line is that Warner has as many seasons as a backup or playing at a backup level as he does playing at a high level. That is not good enough to make the HOF based on the precedent that's been set by the guys who are in right now
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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warner > namath

that's as much as a litmus test as i need in this situation.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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I never saw Culpepper go 8-3 in the postseason with 3 SB appearances (plus a MVP) or 2 regular season MVPs.

I am also not saying this makes Warner a lock for the Hall, but let's not use Daunte Culpepper's name since the comparison is not close.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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When someone talks Offensive systems in football, Warner's name along with Dan Fouts are the two poster players for the Air Coryell system. They ran that system as close to perfect. They are/were good Qbs, but that system is known for getting stats. Same with Rivers. Rivers, in SD, in is the name system. He is a good QB, but system is very, very strong when you got the right pieces. Actually that was the original WCO, before Walsh modernized it and won superbowls with it. Then the media dubbed HIS system the WCO. But Warner, Fouts, and Rivers are all from that system. That's why Mike Martz is considered an offensive genius among football coaches and people in the game. He modernized that system with Norv Turner and made it what it is. Dallas in the early 90s had that offense too.
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