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Old 01-15-2009, 03:19 PM    (permalink
FlyingElvis
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TJ takes this thread totally OT.

But the thought of TJ in NE just caused me to make a small mess in my trousers.
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Meh. Fix the O-Line and all the problems will be solved.

Cutting TO is not the solution. He gets blamed for no reason. Did Witten say TO was a problem? No. Did Romo? No. Has any player willing to show his face say it? No. So who says it? Fans? The media? Oh right... so then it MUST be true. Gimme a break. I'll jump on the other side of the coin when I hear it straight from any Cowboys player that TO is holding the team back.

He's old... blah, blah, blah.
He runs bad routes... blah, blah, blah.
He drops balls... blah, blah, blah.

He's useless... blah, blah, just stop.

He still draws defenses towards his direction. He still opens things up for others. He still makes defensive coordinators plan for him. He still makes big plays.

Not like he's Marvin Harrison out there where it's deathly obvious that his skills have diminshed.

The TO bashing is out of control. Plax goes to court again and it barely makes news. Marvin gets eye witnessed with having a gun in his possession before a crime and no one says a peep. McNabb picks up the Giants sideline phone and people think he's just being a cute, fun loving and adorable guy.

Swap TO's name in there and it's front page news. The media has built him up to be this monster and so many people follow like sheep. Don't count me in.

TO calls out Garrett for his horrible playcalling and TO is the bad guy??? Laughable. Just laughable. Garrett sucked ass this year and am glad someone who had a real voice had the balls to call him out on it.
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Meh. Fix the O-Line and all the problems will be solved.

Cutting TO is not the solution. He gets blamed for no reason. Did Witten say TO was a problem? No. Did Romo? No. Has any player willing to show his face say it? No. So who says it? Fans? The media? Oh right... so then it MUST be true. Gimme a break. I'll jump on the other side of the coin when I hear it straight from any Cowboys player that TO is holding the team back.

He's old... blah, blah, blah.
He runs bad routes... blah, blah, blah.
He drops balls... blah, blah, blah.

He's useless... blah, blah, just stop.

He still draws defenses towards his direction. He still opens things up for others. He still makes defensive coordinators plan for him. He still makes big plays.

Not like he's Marvin Harrison out there where it's deathly obvious that his skills have diminshed.

The TO bashing is out of control. Plax goes to court again and it barely makes news. Marvin gets eye witnessed with having a gun in his possession before a crime and no one says a peep. McNabb picks up the Giants sideline phone and people think he's just being a cute, fun loving and adorable guy.

Swap TO's name in there and it's front page news. The media has built him up to be this monster and so many people follow like sheep. Don't count me in.

TO calls out Garrett for his horrible playcalling and TO is the bad guy??? Laughable. Just laughable. Garrett sucked ass this year and am glad someone who had a real voice had the balls to call him out on it.
Hey D-UNIT you watch 1st and 10 today on ESPN2? Steven A. Smith went crazy on people bashing TO. He was saying a lot of the same things. I agree I think that TO is just the easiest person to point fingers at. I mean Patrick Crayton was just on ESPN saying TO isn't the problem.
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Meh. Fix the O-Line and all the problems will be solved.

Cutting TO is not the solution. He gets blamed for no reason. Did Witten say TO was a problem? No. Did Romo? No. Has any player willing to show his face say it? No. So who says it? Fans? The media? Oh right... so then it MUST be true. Gimme a break. I'll jump on the other side of the coin when I hear it straight from any Cowboys player that TO is holding the team back.

He's old... blah, blah, blah.
He runs bad routes... blah, blah, blah.
He drops balls... blah, blah, blah.

He's useless... blah, blah, just stop.

He still draws defenses towards his direction. He still opens things up for others. He still makes defensive coordinators plan for him. He still makes big plays.

Not like he's Marvin Harrison out there where it's deathly obvious that his skills have diminshed.

The TO bashing is out of control. Plax goes to court again and it barely makes news. Marvin gets eye witnessed with having a gun in his possession before a crime and no one says a peep. McNabb picks up the Giants sideline phone and people think he's just being a cute, fun loving and adorable guy.

Swap TO's name in there and it's front page news. The media has built him up to be this monster and so many people follow like sheep. Don't count me in.

TO calls out Garrett for his horrible playcalling and TO is the bad guy??? Laughable. Just laughable. Garrett sucked ass this year and am glad someone who had a real voice had the balls to call him out on it.
The thing is, I really feel Romo forces a ton of balls to T.O. so the man can stay happy. I loved after the game he complained bout not getting the ball, and they showed the stats and Romo threw to T.O 19 times. I havent seen Romo step up into that leader role, which a QB needs to take control of. T.O. shouldnt be the one to dictate how the offense is run.
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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Cutting TO would cost the team $680K more against the cap this year than keeping him on the team.


$680K more to not have him on the roster.


In the final year before no salary cap, things as is.


Think about that, in the midst of all these idiot reports sprouting up (including, of course, POS moron Ed Werder).

The Cowboys have to grit their teeth for one more year and keep him. They need him on the football field, anyways.
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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Hey D-UNIT you watch 1st and 10 today on ESPN2? Steven A. Smith went crazy on people bashing TO. He was saying a lot of the same things. I agree I think that TO is just the easiest person to point fingers at. I mean Patrick Crayton was just on ESPN saying TO isn't the problem.
I leave the house too early in the morning now days to catch that show and I don't usually like Steven A. Smith because he's too animated. But I guess we're on the same page there.
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Without TO Dallas isn't a contender. They are better off keeping him and seeing if they can put together a playoff run.
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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The thing is, I really feel Romo forces a ton of balls to T.O. so the man can stay happy. I loved after the game he complained bout not getting the ball, and they showed the stats and Romo threw to T.O 19 times. I havent seen Romo step up into that leader role, which a QB needs to take control of. T.O. shouldnt be the one to dictate how the offense is run.
Thing is.... I really feel Romo forces a ton of balls to Jason Witten. ...and it really was apparent in the Pittsburgh game.

19 times sure does sound like a lot in one game. Makes me wonder if that's really true. What game was that? Anyone got the stats? What'd he end up with in that game?

Secondly, Jason Garrett is notorious for calling too many pass plays in an offense that has been exposed as being one of the easiest for defenses to predict. Just ask Ray Lewis.

So is it TO? Or the situation TO has to be in? In an offense that is predictable and one of the simplest in the game?

Geo is right. Dallas needs to keep him. Grass ain't always greener on the other side.

Who needs to step up is Roy Williams. He played the most terrible game I've seen from a WR against Philly in a long time.
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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With respect to Garrett -- when your two starting WR don't run routes ..... kind of hard to call plays.

When was the last time TO caught a deep in between the LB and S? Um, never b/c he does not run the route and when he does, he frequently drops the ball if the safety is near him. He never jumps to catch it if the safety is nearby. Dude is a coward.

TO is no criminal but this analogy about not having trouble with the law while other do is frankly not too smart. The chief complaint is not TO's charity work gets in the way of playing -- it is that his selfishness makes the Offense 10+1.

Then his manipulating other teammates makes the Offense 5+5+1. As evidence his defenders who use his negative energy as an outlet for their frustrations and come to his defence b/c they are exactly as he is but not as ballzy.

Guys like Gurode and Crayton who are busy doing his jock need to look at their bad play instead of using TO's blame game to deflect self analysis.

When you compound the 5+5+1 problem with his bad hands and bad routes and his horrible attitude ..... ... again I don't understand how the Chad Johnson and TO lovers can sit here and say they don't screw up teams but fact is they do.

And with respect that NO TEAMMATES have said anything ..... fact is they have, which is why all the smoke signals are coming out of Dallas and why they are using the media to smoke out TO from Dallas.

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Old 01-15-2009, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Btw, for those wondering about the numbers breakdown for TO:

'09 base salary 2.67M
June '09 roster bonus 3.1M
'09 Allocated signing bonus 3.225M
Total 8.995M

TO's cap charge for '09 is $8.995M.

_____________________________________________

If the Cowboys were to cut or trade him this offseason, presumably before the June roster bonus, they'd be on the hook for only his remaining guaranteed money. However, given that this is the last capped year and there are new rules/restrictions, one such restriction is that remaining guaranteed money will count against the cap in full this season for a released player having more than one season under contract remaining. ie. there is no spreading the charge over two years for June 1st cuts/designated June 1st cuts this year.

So the cost of cutting/trading TO this year:

'09 allocated signing bonus 3.225M
'10 allocated signing bonus 3.225M
'11 allocated signing bonus 3.225M
Total 9.675M

Cutting/trading TO would carry a cap charge of $9.675M.

_____________________________________________

Thus, cutting or trading TO would cost $680K more than keeping him for '09.
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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With respect to Garrett -- when your two starting WR don't run routes ..... kind of hard to call plays.

When was the last time TO caught a deep in between the LB and S? Um, never b/c he does not run the route and when he does, he frequently drops the ball if the safety is near him. He never jumps to catch it if the safety is nearby. Dude is a coward.

TO is no criminal but this analogy about not having trouble with the law while other do is frankly not too smart. The chief complaint is not TO's charity work gets in the way of playing -- it is that his selfishness makes the Offense 10+1.

Then his manipulating other teammates makes the Offense 5+5+1. As evidence his defenders who use his negative energy as an outlet for their frustrations and come to his defence b/c they are exactly as he is but not as ballzy.

Guys like Gurode and Crayton who are busy doing his jock need to look at their bad play instead of using TO's blame game to deflect self analysis.

When you compound the 5+5+1 problem with his bad hands and bad routes and his horrible attitude ..... ... again I don't understand how the Chad Johnson and TO lovers can sit here and say they don't screw up teams but fact is they do.

And with respect that NO TEAMMATES have said anything ..... fact is they have, which is why all the smoke signals are coming out of Dallas and why they are using the media to smoke out TO from Dallas.
So you're saying Garrett has an excuse for being a bad playcaller because he has TO and RW as his #1 and #2 WRs?

Then you want to blame TO for not running a routes and instead give a free pass to the guy who is making up the routes and calling the plays?

You don't have the facts to support TO NOT making a catch between the LB and S anyways.

Calling him a coward? This is more of a personal issue that you have with him than a football issue. That much is clear.

I bet you were one of the Dallas fans who criticized Deion Sanders for being a crappy corner because he wasn't a good tackler. Right or wrong? He was just a terrible player, wasn't he?

TO makes guys accountable. People don't like it? They are the ones that need to go. Give me 11 guys with TO's passion.
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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So you're saying Garrett has an excuse for being a bad playcaller because he has TO and RW as his #1 and #2 WRs?

Then you want to blame TO for not running a routes and instead give a free pass to the guy who is making up the routes and calling the plays?

You don't have the facts to support TO NOT making a catch between the LB and S anyways.

Calling him a coward? This is more of a personal issue that you have with him than a football issue. That much is clear.

I bet you were one of the Dallas fans who criticized Deion Sanders for being a crappy corner because he wasn't a good tackler. Right or wrong? He was just a terrible player, wasn't he?

TO makes guys accountable. People don't like it? They are the ones that need to go. Give me 11 guys with TO's passion.
Put that same passion on the defense and no one would have a problem with it.
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Put that same passion on the defense and no one would have a problem with it.
Ain't that the truth?
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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Trenches.


Trenches.


Trenches.



thats all i gotta say.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Trenches.


Defensive Trenches.


Defensive Trenches.



thats all i gotta say.
It needed adjusting ^.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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It needed adjusting ^.
i think you can use some blood on both sides though. You need a Flozell replacement, at least for the long term future, and you can use a LG as well.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Geo View Post
Btw, for those wondering about the numbers breakdown for TO:

09 base salary 4.4M
June 09 roster bonus 3.1M
Allocated bonus 2.95M
Total 8.995M

TO's cap charge for '09 is $8.995M.

_____________________________________________

If the Cowboys were to cut or trade him this offseason, presumably before the June roster bonus, they'd be on the hook for only his remaining guaranteed money. However, given that this is the last capped year and there are new rules/restrictions, one such restriction is that remaining guaranteed money will count against the cap in full this season for a released player having more than one season under contract remaining. ie. there is no spreading the charge over two years for June 1st cuts/designated June 1st cuts this year.

So the cost of cutting/trading TO this year:

09 allocated bonus 3.225M
10 allocated bonus 3.725M
11 allocated bonus 2.725M
Total 9.675M

Cutting/trading TO would carry a cap charge of $9.675M.

_____________________________________________

Thus, cutting or trading TO would cost $680K more than keeping him for '09.
But in reality, they may not want to actually pay him that $3.1M roster bonus just to save $700K in salary cap charges. Is the salary cap even relevant anymore? Seems just about every team is well under it every year.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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TO makes guys accountable.
.. everyone goes under the TO bus except TO.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Put that same passion on the defense and no one would have a problem with it.
I see Ray Lewis talk and I hear WE. Always.

I see TO talk and I hear "I" unless he is blaming someone then ...

Please, there is no comparison.

People see an out-of-control TO on the sidelines and confuse that with "passion."

I just see a guy who does not practice his craft the way he needs to in order to give anyone sermons.

Who is TO to be telling other how to play when he does not run his routes, alligator arms catches in the middle of the field and drops/givs up on about 1-2 passes per game.

Again, when was the last time you saw TO catch a ball in front of the Safety? Or break up an interception when the QB forces him the ball?

Just slip on the last few Redskins games with Landry roaming back there and Springs roughing him up -- it is about all you need to see to know who TO is as a player.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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i think you can use some blood on both sides though. You need a Flozell replacement, at least for the long term future, and you can use a LG as well.
Their line needs less beef and more athleticism. Those guys just can't move their feet.

I am not sure this Houck fat slob OL works nowadays unless they are great athletes.

The DL today is way more athletic and larger than even 6-7 years ago. Houck, I think, is a dinosaur and his concept of getting big mauler to put straight ahead is antiquated
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Meh. Fix the O-Line and all the problems will be solved.

Cutting TO is not the solution. He gets blamed for no reason. Did Witten say TO was a problem? No. Did Romo? No. Has any player willing to show his face say it? No. So who says it? Fans? The media? Oh right... so then it MUST be true. Gimme a break. I'll jump on the other side of the coin when I hear it straight from any Cowboys player that TO is holding the team back.

He's old... blah, blah, blah.
He runs bad routes... blah, blah, blah.
He drops balls... blah, blah, blah.

He's useless... blah, blah, just stop.

He still draws defenses towards his direction. He still opens things up for others. He still makes defensive coordinators plan for him. He still makes big plays.

Not like he's Marvin Harrison out there where it's deathly obvious that his skills have diminshed.

The TO bashing is out of control. Plax goes to court again and it barely makes news. Marvin gets eye witnessed with having a gun in his possession before a crime and no one says a peep. McNabb picks up the Giants sideline phone and people think he's just being a cute, fun loving and adorable guy.

Swap TO's name in there and it's front page news. The media has built him up to be this monster and so many people follow like sheep. Don't count me in.

TO calls out Garrett for his horrible playcalling and TO is the bad guy??? Laughable. Just laughable. Garrett sucked ass this year and am glad someone who had a real voice had the balls to call him out on it.
My sentiments exactly.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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I will say this. Whether TO leaves or stays, the Cowboys will carry on.

We have enough to be competitive without him. But having him doesn't hurt either.

TO has taken big hits and has easily bounced right up. He has been one of the healthiest WRs and he's one of the best conditioned athletes in the game. Frankly, I do see him making catches in the middle of the field. I do see him making catches behind the LBs. I do see him fighting to get open. I do see him making TDs. I do see him making big plays. I do see him wide open and not getting the ball thrown his way. I do see bad playcalling. I do see Romo forcing it to Witten. I do see players with not enough heart or leadership on the team. TO is doing his part just fine. If he wasn't, then I'd say he's not worth it. But he is doing his job.

Some Dallas fans still hate him for who he was before he got to Dallas and that's the plain truth. Same people who hate him now, hated getting him the first place and they still can't get over it.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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Their line needs less beef and more athleticism. Those guys just can't move their feet.

I am not sure this Houck fat slob OL works nowadays unless they are great athletes.

The DL today is way more athletic and larger than even 6-7 years ago. Houck, I think, is a dinosaur and his concept of getting big mauler to put straight ahead is antiquated
I agree. The OL needs to get more athletic and Houck's style is outdated.

I've been saying that the OL needs fixing and that it's the cause for 90% of our problems. You bring up a good point. That's why I want Shanahan and his zone blocking scheme.
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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I agree. The OL needs to get more athletic and Houck's style is outdated.

I've been saying that the OL needs fixing and that it's the cause for 90% of our problems. You bring up a good point. That's why I want Shanahan and his zone blocking scheme.
I am not a ZBS fan per se but you can't argue with results either. It works pretty well and it makes finding OL easier.

The Dallas line looks very slow laterally other than their LG, Kosier, but Kosier doesn't fit their scheme either.

A 360lb Mauler at RG and a 290 LB pulling Guard on the Left. Makes no sense.
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure how much of a ZBS is viable for Dallas, with Flozell (LT), Davis (RG), and Columbo (RT).
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