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Old 01-19-2009, 09:03 PM    (permalink
Menardo75
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Larry cimented himself in the top five discussion this year.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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Old 01-19-2009, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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So tough...

The top ten at the moment...
01. Larry Fitzgerald
02. Andre Johnson
03. Steve Smith
03. Randy Moss
04. Calvin Johnson
05. Reggie Wayne
06. Brandon Marshall
07. Terrell Owens
08. Roddy White
09. Anquan Boldin
10. Greg Jennings

GREAT pure receivers and you can't exclude them from the conversation but they just aren't explosive enough...
Hines Ward
Wes Welker

Shot himself or something...
Plaxico Burress

Something is fishy because he had incredible hands and ran beautiful routes until this year...
Chad Johnson

The golden child...
Eddie Royal

The sick redemption block will turn his career around group...
Limas Sweed
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Old 01-19-2009, 09:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TPFKA#1SaintsFan View Post
Dude, that makes Calvin's success even that much more impressive...
haha he ran right into that one
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Old 01-19-2009, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by thenewfeature06 View Post
Sweeds peelback block last night was outstanding lol cory ivy got hammered
That drop he had was mortifying. He did play well for the rest of the game.
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Old 01-19-2009, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Reggie Wayne would not be a top-10 WR if he played with a different QB, there I said it. There is nothing he does exceptionally well. He can be shut out if Peyton is not on his game, which isn't often.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Reggie Wayne would not be a top-10 WR if he played with a different QB, there I said it. There is nothing he does exceptionally well. He can be shut out if Peyton is not on his game, which isn't often.
He consistently makes ridiculous catches and runs the best comeback route in the NFL.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Steve Smith
4. Calvin Johnson
5. Reggie Wayne
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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1: Larry Fitzgerald
2: Steve Smith
3: Calvin Johnson
4: Andre Johnson
5: Anquan Boldin

Mixin it up a lil bit, i honestly think Steve Smith is closer to the top than most people think.

In a year or two, Megatron will be firmly atop of that list, with even an average quaterback he will be a superstar.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Reggie Wayne would not be a top-10 WR if he played with a different QB, there I said it. There is nothing he does exceptionally well. He can be shut out if Peyton is not on his game, which isn't often.
Careful with that, people don't like the "Peyton makes his weapons" argument.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal View Post
Plax is not top 5. Id argue for Hines but I'd be called a homer. Hines doesn't make the huge vertical routes that make all the other top receivers dominant, but there isn't anyone else Id rather have on 3rd down.
I agree with this, although Wes Welker is right up there on my list for top 3rd down recievers.


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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Yea can't give up hope on Sweed, that pass he dropped the other night, was basically the only type of TD passes he caught his entire time at Texas...He is showing some good seperation but your right, it just has to click.


Just remember it's only his 1st year, and Roddy White looked alot like this for a few years...Great sign seeing him drop that pass then coming right back and laying the hit on that defender, love to see that type of stuff.
I love Sweed. He pisses me off like Nate does, but I think he will be a very, very good player in this league. The way he works and how hard he works really excites me for his future. I think he just needs to hit that weight room hard and hit those jug machines hard and he will be fine. I love the kids potential. I could see him as a Roddy White clone as I recall Falcon fans wanting his head after he sucked his rookie season.

Pittsburgh fans on their official site board wants Sweed and Mendenhall gone after this season. ******** I know.


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Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy View Post
Top ten wide receivers: Randy Moss, Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Brandon Marshall, Terrell Owens, Steve Smith, T.J. Houshmandzadeh

Top twenty wide receivers: Lee Evans, Wes Welker, Jerricho Cotchery, Chad Ocho Cinco, Dwayne Bowe, Vincent Jackson, Roy Williams, Greg Jennings, Bernard Berrian, Roddy White
Trying to not sound like a homer, but where is Hines Ward? The best all around reciever should be ahead of quite a few guys on that list. Berrian and Evans are one trick ponies IMO and Cotchery isn't better then Hines Ward, I am sorry.

When I say one trick ponies, I mean running up field on fly routes because they are fast.

Meanwhile, my top 5 goes like this:

1) Larry Fitzgerald
2) Andre Johnson
3) Steve Smith
4) Calvin Johnson
5) Anquan Boldin

Players who round out the top 10 in no order:

Reggie Wayne
Greg Jennings
Randy Moss
Hines Ward
Roddy White


I think DBowe will be top 10 by the end of next season. I like Brandon Marshall, but his attitude and drops scare me away from him.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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CJ doesn't have safeties helping out the corner 90% of the time.
Well you clearly didn't watch the Lions this year.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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1. Moss
2. Fitz
3. Andre Johnson
4. Steve Smith
5. Calvin Johnson
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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Well you clearly didn't watch the Lions this year.
I wish I were that lucky.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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1. fitz
2. a johnson
3. smith
4. c johnson
5. boldin
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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1. Andre Johnson
2. Larry Fitzgerald
3. Calvin Johnson
4. Randy Moss
5. Roddy White/Steve Smith

Andre Johnson puts up sick numbers without a stud WR alongside him like Fitz has
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Reggie Wayne would not be a top-10 WR if he played with a different QB, there I said it. There is nothing he does exceptionally well. He can be shut out if Peyton is not on his game, which isn't often.
Your way off base on that one.


There is nothing he does exceptionally well? Yea because that game winning TD that he caught vs the Texans was only caught because Peyton threw a good pass This guy is a top 5 route runner in the NFL, and top 5 hands as well, he's incredibly smart and understands the defense and those things help him get open.


You can't diminish the guy's talent or ability because Peyton is a great QB, he has proven more then a few times what he can do with the ball in his hands.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Its still Randy Moss.

People overreact to what they see on national television all the time. Fitz is a beast, and is solidifying himself as top 3, but Randy is still the king.

And probably will be for at least 2 more years.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Its still Randy Moss.

People overreact to what they see on national television all the time. Fitz is a beast, and is solidifying himself as top 3, but Randy is still the king.

And probably will be for at least 2 more years.
Why is that? Because he's tall and fast?

Larry Fitzgerald does anything Randy Moss can do, better. Runs better routes, has better hands, they're both equally beastly on jump balls so i don't think you can give the edge to either, but Fitz has the balls to run routes in the middle of the field and run after the catch, not duck down at the first sign of contact.

Randy Moss is NOT the best WR in the NFL right now, not by a good margin.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Why is that? Because he's tall and fast?

Larry Fitzgerald does anything Randy Moss can do, better. Runs better routes, has better hands, they're both equally beastly on jump balls so i don't think you can give the edge to either, but Fitz has the balls to run routes in the middle of the field and run after the catch, not duck down at the first sign of contact.

Randy Moss is NOT the best WR in the NFL right now, not by a good margin.
No. No he can't.

Randy Moss is the best deep ball WR to ever play this game.

Its no coincidence that the man was on the 2 teams in NFL history that scored the most points. As great as Fitz is, he's no Randy Moss.

Go put on coaching tape from the endzone, and see the impact of each player. The coverages Randy Moss sees is like no other WR ive ever seen. Fitz is a beast, but he's not on Randy's level as far as impacting a defensive gameplan.

No one ever was really, not even the GOAT, Jerry Rice.

Everyone is just overreacting to games being shown nationally. It happens every year. Bc we don't get to see every team every week, we see something great and say zomg and jump to conclusions.

Fitz is a beast, but when Moss catches another 20 TDs next year when he gets a qb who can throw past 30 yards again, everyone will be back on his nuts. Nothing has changed.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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In pure skill and physical talent, Calvin Johnson is definitely top 5.. Still he needs to get past dropping balls before he's a top 5. To me atleast.

Randy Moss might not be the best in the NFL right now, but he's top 3 all time. Allll time.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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No. No he can't.

Randy Moss is the best deep ball WR to ever play this game.

Its no coincidence that the man was on the 2 teams in NFL history that scored the most points. As great as Fitz is, he's no Randy Moss.

Go put on coaching tape from the endzone, and see the impact of each player. The coverages Randy Moss sees is like no other WR ive ever seen. Fitz is a beast, but he's not on Randy's level as far as impacting a defensive gameplan.

No one ever was really, not even the GOAT, Jerry Rice.

Everyone is just overreacting to games being shown nationally. It happens every year. Bc we don't get to see every team every week, we see something great and say zomg and jump to conclusions.

Fitz is a beast, but when Moss catches another 20 TDs next year when he gets a qb who can throw past 30 yards again, everyone will be back on his nuts. Nothing has changed.
See, stuff like this really grinds my gears. Do YOU have coaching tape that you readily have access to that helped you form your opinion, as opposed to me just watching games weekly?

No **** Randy Moss sees more coverage, he has a short white guy playing opposite him, most of the time in the slot. Fitzgerald plays with another top five WR on his team, and another one that is slowly creeping up to being one of the best #3's that should be a #2.

The only thing Randy has on Fitzgerald at this point is speed. The fact that Moss can only perform at a top level when he has a very good quarterback playing for him is a little ridiculous. Matt Cassell did more than enough for that team, and players on crappier teams with much worse QB situations did better than him statistically (See megatron).

Again, i'll list the things that Fitzgerald has on Moss, please feel free to dispute any of these.

1. Work ethic
2. Hands
3. Route running
4. Inside catching/running

Things Randy does better than Fitz.
1. Offensive pass interference
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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See, stuff like this really grinds my gears. Do YOU have coaching tape that you readily have access to that helped you form your opinion, as opposed to me just watching games weekly?

No **** Randy Moss sees more coverage, he has a short white guy playing opposite him, most of the time in the slot. Fitzgerald plays with another top five WR on his team, and another one that is slowly creeping up to being one of the best #3's that should be a #2.

The only thing Randy has on Fitzgerald at this point is speed. The fact that Moss can only perform at a top level when he has a very good quarterback playing for him is a little ridiculous. Matt Cassell did more than enough for that team, and players on crappier teams with much worse QB situations did better than him statistically (See megatron).

Again, i'll list the things that Fitzgerald has on Moss, please feel free to dispute any of these.

1. Work ethic
2. Hands
3. Route running
4. Inside catching/running

Things Randy does better than Fitz.
1. Offensive pass interference
First off, yes. Yes i do. I have a friend i knew since my freshman year at college that works at NFL films in South Jerz.

2nd of all, Moss prior to the Pats played with dog crap at qb, and had incredible years. So there goes that argument.

3rd, work ethic? Give me a break. Moss has one of the best work ethics in the league. And contrary to popular belief, he's one of the smartest players in the league. Even Brady said he's the smartest player he ever worked with. People think all the guy does is run straight. That just shows they don't know what theyre talking about. Playing WR in the NFL requires the ability to read defenses and adjust mid route. No one in the league does this better than Moss, which is why i find the "route running" argument laughable.

Ask any coach about Moss's route running. They'll tell you he's one of the best route runners in the game.

Hands are equal. Do i need to show you clips of some of the ridiculous catches Moss has made?

As far as inside catching goes, how do you know that? Moss is never asked to run those patterns because he's so dominant at what he does, he effects the defense more running deep than going inside. Thats what Welker is for. You can't fault someone for not doing something if theyre not asked to do it.

The ONLY knock on Moss was his lack of drive when his teams are terrible. And thats completely understandable.

But any other knocks to his game really are just fan talk.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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The ONLY knock on Moss was his lack of drive when his teams are terrible. And thats completely understandable.

But any other knocks to his game really are just fan talk.
Your forgetting about the alligator arms he gets going across the middle for short gains, he won't risk his body for those and that's why I can't list him as the #1 WR in the NFL because he's not complete.


He's just not that type of WR, but now there are WR's that can do that now a days very well as well as being a dominant deep threat...I know what Randy can do good, but all through his career, even this past season he short armed too many passes if he felt he was going to get hit, he doesn't even like getting those balls thrown to him.


If he's not running deep he also has a bad habit of jogging routes, and he certainly isn't the greatest route runner, but I guess I can't knock him for jogging because people try those same things to tarnish Ricky Henderson's image.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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Your forgetting about the alligator arms he gets going across the middle for short gains, he won't risk his body for those and that's why I can't list him as the #1 WR in the NFL because he's not complete.


He's just not that type of WR, but now there are WR's that can do that now a days very well as well as being a dominant deep threat...I know what Randy can do good, but all through his career, even this past season he short armed too many passes if he felt he was going to get hit, he doesn't even like getting those balls thrown to him.


If he's not running deep he also has a bad habit of jogging routes, and he certainly isn't the greatest route runner, but I guess I can't knock him for jogging because people try those same things to tarnish Ricky Henderson's image.
People are taking a few instances from his tarnished years and using it against him for his entire career. Im not gonna do that. We're essentially taking like 12 routes ran by the man over a career and using it against him.

I'll take Moss over any WR in this league, and i won't even think twice about it. Its not just about being complete, its about gameplanning and how a WR can effect a gameplan.

Moss changes a defense more than anyone by far. A great WR forces a double team. He has the best CB on him at all times, and a safety up top. Moss is so dominant to take it to the house on any play, teams are forced to play 7 in the box against his team every play. They must play 2 deep safety bc if you play single high with him and give him all that space, you're asking for it. Teams have tried it, and have either hit/hurried the qb successfully or failed miserably by being torched for a TD. Teams were able to get away with 8 in the box more this year however bc Cassel is unable to get the ball downfield with consistent accuracy, so teams gambled on Cassel failing this year moreso than Moss not getting open. Moss was open a ton of times and Cassel couldn't get it to him.

So now without even jogging a route, the man has dramatically improved your run game.

On top of that, because of his ridiculous ability to kill teams deep, he opens up the underneath for his teammates better than any other WR in the game. He improves his teammates better than any other WR in this league.

Ive even seen teams shade a LB his way to shorten his post routes and redirect him.

In these instances, he dramatically helps the TE who runs down the seam, because

1. You can't put a safety on the TE, the safety has to focus on Moss

2. The TE has a LB on him who now has to shade Moss's way which frees up more space for the TE to operate.


I can go on and on, you can't measure with stats, or fancy catches, how important this guy is.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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1. Work ethic
2. Hands
3. Route running
4. Inside catching/running






I'm not so sure I'm ready to doubt Randy Moss not having the best hands. I think Larry is better right now, but Randy Moss is right there with him in a lot of categories. To me there's no clear cut winner
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