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Old 01-20-2009, 09:07 PM    (permalink
AtariBigby
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Default Does Dallas have a different salary cap than everyone else?

25% of the top 20-paid players? http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...salaries_N.htm
5 Cowboys and 15 non-Cowboys? And neither of them DeMarcus Ware?
How does Dallas fit them all in under the so-called cap?

If anyone can find total package deals for players signed in 2008, please post the link here. We're trying to guess what Haynseworth, Peppers, and Suggs might get. Michael Vick had the biggest contract ever in the NFL?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...orts_contracts
Look at fricking Arod. Wow. The top 2 deals ever. Over a half BILLION dollars, and he doesn't get creamed going over the middle like Boldin does and get smashed to the ground like a QB does 15 times a game.

TOP 20 HIGHEST PAID PLAYERS IN 2008

1. QB Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh $ 27,701,920
2. DE Jared Allen, Minnesota $ 21,119,256
3. WR Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona $ 17,103,480
4. QB JaMarcus Russell, Oakland $ 16,872,400
5. RB Michael Turner, Atlanta $ 16,003,840
6. G Chris Snee, N.Y. Giants $ 14,890,000
7. CB Asante Samuel, Philadelphia $ 14,145,000
8. WR Randy Moss, New England $ 14,006,720
9. T Flozell Adams, Dallas $ 14,005,760
10. DT Tommy Kelly, Oakland $ 13,978,480
11. WR Terrell Owens, Dallas $ 13,731,560
12. WR Bernard Berrian, Minnesota $ 13,705,000
13. T Michael Roos, Tennessee $ 13,505,520
14. C Jeff Faine, Tampa Bay $ 13,105,760
15. DE Will Smith, New Orleans $ 12,950,000
16. QB Tony Romo, Dallas $ 12,886,600
17. G Travelle Wharton, Carolina $ 12,850,000
18. DE Antwan Odom, Cincinnati $ 12,800,000
19. CB Terence Newman, Dallas $ 12,611,240
20. RB Marion Barber, Dallas $ 12,522,400
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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That money isn't garunteed. Dallas is really good at manipulating contracts to be backloaded...while dishing out most of the money into signing bonus's to make the players happy...the bonus gets prorated over the life of the contract.
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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That money isn't garunteed. Dallas is really good at manipulating contracts to be backloaded...while dishing out most of the money into signing bonus's to make the players happy...the bonus gets prorated over the life of the contract.
This is pretty funny because I thought rules were implemented to stop ridiculous signing bonuses nulling the long term value of contracts after the Cowboys signed Deon Sanders.
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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yes because all the other 31 teams have the same salary cap while Dallas' is different? what kind of stupid question is that? of course they all have the same cap.
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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This is pretty funny because I thought rules were implemented to stop ridiculous signing bonuses nulling the long term value of contracts after the Cowboys signed Deon Sanders.
Every single penny of that signing bonus has to hit the salary cap. Whether it be now or next year or after that, it all takes up the space. If you release a player before his contract is over, what's left of the signing bonus automatically jumps into the cap, depending when he is released. Sometimes it can be divided over two years.
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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All of those contracts are within the last year. An effort to "win a SB" by over paying for over-valued talent.

Don't worry, they will all come back to haunt Jones -- in fact they are already are.

TO is 35.

Flo is shot and way past his prime.

Newman is going on 31.

Barber, as a starter, had some serious nagging injuries this year.

Romo is Romo and seems happy with Simpson and his big bonus.

Like the Deion mistake times 5.

Jones only hope is the Cap disappears soon and he can officially call him George Steinbrenner Jr. But I don't think the owners are going to allow that.

Ware will blow all this away too.

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Old 01-20-2009, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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I've said it a million times, teams are going to have more trouble spending the minimum cap amount then they will going over the cap. The salary cap is so ******* high that it might as well not even exist.
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Not sure if this is the case with Dallas exactly, but this can occur when a team does that spending-over-cap technique.

Technically a team can spend a *lot* more than the salary cap on players. They do so by converting the current season's base salary into signing bonus, which then gets prorated over the life of the deal. As the contract isn't extended, these changes usually go unreported by the mainstream sports media.

Say for example TO had 2 years remaining on his deal, and was set to earn $10M in base salary for 2009, and already had a prorated signing bonus value for 2009 of $2M. He would be set to count $12M against the 2009 cap, but is only scheduled to actually make $10M - his base salary - as the signing bonus was already paid to him years earlier.

Now say the Cowboys converted $8M of that $10M base salary into signing bonus. Since he has 2 years left, that $8M now prorates over the deal, so $4M of it counts the current season, and $4M the next. The $2M prorated bonus from his original signing bonus remains, but now instead of counting $12M against the cap, he counts $8M - $2M prorated bonus, $2M in base salary, and a new $4M prorated bonus.

However, whilst the Cowboys saved $4M in cap space with this move, TO is actually going to earn $10M still for the season - the $8M bonus, which is paid out upon signing but prorates cap wise, and the $2M base salary.

So, as you can see, teams can give players more in one season than they actually count against the cap. I'm not sure if my example above adheres to all salary rules exactly, but that's the gist of if.

The problem with this though is you're only pushing the issue further down the track. In this scenario, on his last year, TO would have a $2M prorated bonus from his original deal, a new $4M prorated bonus, and likely more base salary than his prior season, so lets say $12M. All up, a $18M cap number. Since it would be his last season, you can't push it forward anymore without extending him, but releasing him or trading him would stand to save you $12M on the cap (as the prorated bonus figures remain).

It is an effective way to "beat the cap" for owners willing to spend a lot, but it can make the final year or two of a contract a bit messy and generally isn't a good practice for long term players on your team. The thing is though, most of the teams that practice this (Redskins, Cowboys?) tend to sign these higher profile vets only looking for a few seasons of service, so it suits them they probably have to get rid of them before their deal is up fine enough - they'll just move onto the next high profile vet available.

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Old 01-20-2009, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Yes Dallas gets their own salary cap, it's the america's team ruling of 1894 which permits Jerry Jones to spend up twice the amount of the rest of capped teams in the league put together until his team wins another playoff game, then the bucanneers cap number is removed from the equation.
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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The most disturbing thing about that list is 2 Oakland players in the top 10. Most of the other teams on there are pretty decent but we are awful and have been for a while, yet we continue to have one of the highest payrolls around. Thanks Al.
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Old 01-21-2009, 03:55 AM    (permalink
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I was surprised Travelle Wharton was on there, but he signed a long term deal, was amazing this year as a guard and can play tackle fairly decently in a pinch.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Surprised that Matt Ryan didn't make the list. Geuss he'll be near the top next year like Russell.
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Where is Tom Brady and Peyton Manning on that list?
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Peyton doesn't need an NFL contract. He gets all his money through advertising ;)

I wouldn't be surprised if both Brady and Manning had front loaded contracts that aren't paying them out a lot right now. Manning should be up there anyways though, I remember his contract was insane when he signed it.
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Old 01-21-2009, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Jones signed alot of these deals with the money on the back end when there was talk of no cap in 2010 there was a whole thread about it last year
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Old 01-21-2009, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Yeah these figures were what was on the books for 2008.
Anyone know where to find what's slated to count on the 2009 cap?
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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So what if Dallas gets special exemptions for the salary cap restrictions?

The NFL granted the Lions special permission to suck every single year, and lo and behold, we made history! 0-16 baby!
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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So what if Dallas gets special exemptions for the salary cap restrictions?

The NFL granted the Lions special permission to suck every single year, and lo and behold, we made history! 0-16 baby!
Yeah, congratulations. I think you guys deserve the #1 and #2 picks for that once-in-a-lifetime accomplishment.
If Millen were there, I'd pencil in Crabtree at #1 for you.
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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omg, how innovative, a WR to Detroit joke
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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Even if they do have a different cap it sure aint helping them win a championship
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Old 01-21-2009, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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Even if they do have a different cap it sure aint helping them win a championship
Quite a comment coming from a Dan Snyder supporter.

But, I actually applaud Snyder and the way he's able to work his moves around the cap. I just don't like the way he throws away his draft picks. When he keeps them, he does a good job.

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Old 01-22-2009, 01:00 AM    (permalink
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25% of the top 20-paid players? http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...salaries_N.htm
5 Cowboys and 15 non-Cowboys? And neither of them DeMarcus Ware?
How does Dallas fit them all in under the so-called cap?

If anyone can find total package deals for players signed in 2008, please post the link here. We're trying to guess what Haynseworth, Peppers, and Suggs might get. Michael Vick had the biggest contract ever in the NFL?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...orts_contracts
Look at fricking Arod. Wow. The top 2 deals ever. Over a half BILLION dollars, and he doesn't get creamed going over the middle like Boldin does and get smashed to the ground like a QB does 15 times a game.

TOP 20 HIGHEST PAID PLAYERS IN 2008

1. QB Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh $ 27,701,920
2. DE Jared Allen, Minnesota $ 21,119,256
3. WR Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona $ 17,103,480
4. QB JaMarcus Russell, Oakland $ 16,872,400
5. RB Michael Turner, Atlanta $ 16,003,840
6. G Chris Snee, N.Y. Giants $ 14,890,000
7. CB Asante Samuel, Philadelphia $ 14,145,000
8. WR Randy Moss, New England $ 14,006,720
9. T Flozell Adams, Dallas $ 14,005,760
10. DT Tommy Kelly, Oakland $ 13,978,480
11. WR Terrell Owens, Dallas $ 13,731,560
12. WR Bernard Berrian, Minnesota $ 13,705,000
13. T Michael Roos, Tennessee $ 13,505,520
14. C Jeff Faine, Tampa Bay $ 13,105,760
15. DE Will Smith, New Orleans $ 12,950,000
16. QB Tony Romo, Dallas $ 12,886,600
17. G Travelle Wharton, Carolina $ 12,850,000
18. DE Antwan Odom, Cincinnati $ 12,800,000
19. CB Terence Newman, Dallas $ 12,611,240
20. RB Marion Barber, Dallas $ 12,522,400

There's a trick on Manipulating the cap.


LTBE incentives. You put in a players contract an incentive that's considered "Likely to be earned". But it's usually a ludicrous instance..

(FB getting 10 TD's, WR reaching 500 rushing yards or 30 TD's etc.).

The Cap hit happens, and soon after the incentives are checked by the accounting dept.

The NFL Allows those Dollars that were used to hit the cap on incentives that were LTBE but weren't, they get that in bonus room.


so say the Salary cap is $120M this year.

If Dallas had $40M in LTBE incentives that weren't earned the previous year... they would've had the cap hit in 2007, but instead of having $120M In cap room this season, that LTBE "hit" would be "Refunded" in simple terms and give them $160M this season.


However with the CBA voided there is a lot of new stipulations about the rate of contract increase to 30% I believe.
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Old 01-22-2009, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtariBigby View Post
Yeah these figures were what was on the books for 2008.
Anyone know where to find what's slated to count on the 2009 cap?
Search Google for NFL Player Contracts USA Today.

I don't know if they have '09 yet though.
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Old 01-29-2009, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Here's the part. does it matter?

Look at what Dallas has. A team that can barely close the deal. When was the last time they really won anything?
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