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Old 01-22-2009, 03:39 PM    (permalink
georgiafan
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Well from the comments at the Senior Bowl, I'm more confused than ever. I've been a huge Stafford booster from the beginning but he didn't exactly get an overwhelming endorsement from Mayock or Davis. Mayock questioned a number of areas he thought Stafford was weak in, now it may only be inexperience but I think until Stafford works out probably at his pro day we won't know till then if he has what it takes to be a franchise QB.
Davis on the other hand seemed to like Sanchez better so I think our #1 overall pick is still up in the air.
You have 3 years of game film of Stafford that should be enough to know if he is going to be a franchise QB. I don't see how what he does in his pro day being a huge deal either way. I don't think anyone will tell you that Stafford is a finished product, but he can make all the throws and has got better every single year. He does need to work on his accuracy on deep passes and a few more things. But nothing that can't be fixed.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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I would take Oher over Maua-can't spell his name-looga. The top qb prospect and someone to protect his butt. That said I wouldn't hate that draft at all.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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I'd rather have a trench guy then a MLB definitely. QB, trenches, then skill positions
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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You have 3 years of game film of Stafford that should be enough to know if he is going to be a franchise QB. I don't see how what he does in his pro day being a huge deal either way. I don't think anyone will tell you that Stafford is a finished product, but he can make all the throws and has got better every single year. He does need to work on his accuracy on deep passes and a few more things. But nothing that can't be fixed.

On some level i hope more people think he isnt a franchise QB, like the 1st 3teams drafting (Seattle selects Matthew Stafford:) )

As for his pro day he is in Arizona training right now so i dont know if he'll be at any school pro day but i'm sure he'll be at the combine. Here's the deal with workouts, he's going to be throwing to good receivers with no one rushing him and most likely in perfect conditions. He will blow scouts away throwing the ball. Forget about it.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Totally different. Herrmann's hair is only notable because it's the only thing keeping him from total obscurity. That and his one-man full court press defense. He never even plays anymore.
.......of many women that is.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. Half the problem with the duration of scouts evaluating talent is that they have waaaay too much time to disect "flaws" in a player, which end up overshadowing their strong points....it's almost as though they forget what draws them to a player to begin with.

The bottom line is that Stafford is a top-shelf QB prospect and Detroit would be absolutely bananas not to take him imo.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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this entire draft has me thinking....how can we screw this up? if we take stafford at number 1 then how can we turn our draft grade into a C or worse? draft players not ranked in the top 100 for the next couple of picks? trade all of our picks for washed up vets? no matter what we would still get the top rated QB (or sanchez whoever is top) and can't really be blamed for the decision. staff and mau is solid, but so is a dozen other possibilities. does dizon have a brother in this draft? kicker with the 2nd round pick? how do we mess this up? even a wideout isn't horrendous if it helped stafford. atleast not worthy of a D grade with stafford headlining.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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this entire draft has me thinking....how can we screw this up? if we take stafford at number 1 then how can we turn our draft grade into a C or worse? draft players not ranked in the top 100 for the next couple of picks? trade all of our picks for washed up vets? no matter what we would still get the top rated QB (or sanchez whoever is top) and can't really be blamed for the decision. staff and mau is solid, but so is a dozen other possibilities. does dizon have a brother in this draft? kicker with the 2nd round pick? how do we mess this up? even a wideout isn't horrendous if it helped stafford. atleast not worthy of a D grade with stafford headlining.
You jerk... don't say that out loud!!!
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:34 PM    (permalink
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lol, i'm just giving us an opportunity to 'manage expectations'
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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Although he has a great head of hair, Mel Kiper is crazy ... Rey "The Mauler" will not fall to #20 boys. However, if he does, we take him so fast the only time off the draft day clock is the hesitation for the commisoner to pronounce his name! Get the card in NOW baby! I have seen him on a few mocks (that I can not post here) as the #1 overall defensive player ... he will go top 10 imo but would drool if he ends up in the D ;o)

I keep going back and forth, but currently this is how I like it (assuming we get a top 10 pick in 2010 with one of the amazing QB's McCoy, Bradford or Tebow to select)

#1a Eugene Monroe LT, UVA
#1b Rey Maulaluga ILB, USC (according to the helmet)
#2 DJ Moore CB/KR, Vandi (Peria Jerry DT, Ol Miss if Moore is gone)
#3a Trevor Canfield G, Cinci (Darius Butler CB, UCONN if Moore is gone)
#3b Zack Follett OLB, Cal
#5 Roy Miller NT, Texas
#6 Lydell Sargeant CB, PSU
#6 Brice McCain KR/4.3!, Utah


*** FA Albert Haynesworth (wishful thinking?)

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Old 01-22-2009, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm hearing more and more that he is a RT prospect not a LT. Then there is William Beatty of Connecticut who has had an outstanding Senior Bowl and is projected as a solid LT prospect. Just tremendous feet for a big man.
We won't know about Britton until the Combine.
Yeah, I liked Beatty as a target at #33 before the Senior Bowl.

Now he's legit for that pick.
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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Although he has a great head of hair, Mel Kiper is crazy ... Rey "The Mauler" will not fall to #20 boys. However, if he does, we take him so fast the only time off the draft day clock is the hesitation for the commisoner to pronounce his name! Get the card in NOW baby! I have seen him on a few mocks (that I can not post here) as the #1 overall defensive player ... he will go top 10 imo but would drool if he ends up in the D ;o)

I keep going back and forth, but currently this is how I like it (assuming we get a top 10 pick in 2010 with one of the amazing QB's McCoy, Bradford or Tebow to select)

#1a Eugene Monroe LT, UVA
#1b Rey Maulaluga ILB, USC (according to the helmet)
#2 DJ Moore CB/KR, Vandi (Peria Jerry DT, Ol Miss if Moore is gone)
#3a Trevor Canfield G, Cinci (Darius Butler CB, UCONN if Moore is gone)
#3b Zack Follett OLB, Cal
#5 Roy Miller NT, Texas
#6 Lydell Sargeant CB, PSU
#6 Brice McCain KR/4.3!, Utah


*** FA Albert Haynesworth (wishful thinking?)
Please tell me you didn't refer to Tim Tebow as an amazing QB..............
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Although he has a great head of hair, Mel Kiper is crazy ... Rey "The Mauler" will not fall to #20 boys. However, if he does, we take him so fast the only time off the draft day clock is the hesitation for the commisoner to pronounce his name! Get the card in NOW baby! I have seen him on a few mocks (that I can not post here) as the #1 overall defensive player ... he will go top 10 imo but would drool if he ends up in the D ;o)

I keep going back and forth, but currently this is how I like it (assuming we get a top 10 pick in 2010 with one of the amazing QB's McCoy, Bradford or Tebow to select)

#1a Eugene Monroe LT, UVA
#1b Rey Maulaluga ILB, USC (according to the helmet)
#2 DJ Moore CB/KR, Vandi (Peria Jerry DT, Ol Miss if Moore is gone)
#3a Trevor Canfield G, Cinci (Darius Butler CB, UCONN if Moore is gone)
#3b Zack Follett OLB, Cal
#5 Roy Miller NT, Texas
#6 Lydell Sargeant CB, PSU
#6 Brice McCain KR/4.3!, Utah

*** FA Albert Haynesworth (wishful thinking?)
Remind me again what makes any of next year's QB crop "amazing" . . .
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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Remind me again what makes any of next year's QB crop "amazing" . . .
Because Brent Musberger and Kirk Herbsreit say they are damn it!!
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Please tell me you didn't refer to Tim Tebow as an amazing QB..............

2 national championships, a heisman trophy and he chooses to return for a senior season to a stacked Florida team to compile even more gaudy statistics. Pretty amazing.

He is already in the conversation as one of the greatest college football players of ALL time. Yes, that is pretty amazing.

You may not like his "in the pocket presence" or his "down the field accuracy" or even his "40 yard dash time" like other scouts but come on bro, cut the guy some slack what he has done as a QB so far is pretty amazing despite what his future is in the NFL.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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2 national championships, a heisman trophy and he chooses to return for a senior season to a stacked Florida team to compile even more gaudy statistics. Pretty amazing.

He is already in the conversation as one of the greatest college football players of ALL time. Yes, that is pretty amazing.

You may not like his "in the pocket presence" or his "down the field accuracy" or even his "40 yard dash time" like other scouts but come on bro, cut the guy some slack what he has done as a QB so far is pretty amazing despite what his future is in the NFL.
Amazing college player, not amazing pro prospect. Since we're talking about potential first round picks here, that's what matters.

You also pointed out he's returning to a stacked team. You don't think that may have had something to do with those two national championships and Heisman?

The things you pointed out (and put in quotes like they don't matter), are, among many other factors, kind of important to a pro QB. Tebow is the worst of that group of three, but none of them are "amazing" prospects.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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Because Brent Musberger and Kirk Herbsreit say they are damn it!!
I think it was Terrence Taylor ... actually.

I would wager Bradford, Tebow & McCoy all go top 10 in 2010. No guarantees they all prospure but teams will take the risk ...
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Amazing college player, not amazing pro prospect. Since we're talking about potential first round picks here, that's what matters.

You also pointed out he's returning to a stacked team. You don't think that may have had something to do with those two national championships and Heisman?

The things you pointed out (and put in quotes like they don't matter), are, among many other factors, kind of important to a pro QB. Tebow is the worst of that group of three, but none of them are "amazing" prospects.
Looks like you're a Michigan fan ironman.
Well for your sake I guess it's a good thing New England did not listen to the experts about Tom Brady's short comings as a college prospect b/c they sure translated to the pros... or the reverse of that ... how about Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf. They were can't miss by most experts.

Since you are willing to share your opinion so freely what are the qualities you see in an amazing QB prospect? What is lacking in McCoy, Tebow & Bradford?
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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I think it was Terrence Taylor ... actually.

I would wager Bradford, Tebow & McCoy all go top 10 in 2010. No guarantees they all prospure but teams will take the risk ...
I don't think it was Taylor. He would have been too fat and lazy to see who was playing QB.

As for going top 10, Bradford and McCoy have a good chance, and probably will, although I'm not particularly impressed with either of them either. Unless Tebow really takes a massive leap forward next year, there's no way he goes top 10.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Looks like you're a Michigan fan ironman.
Well for your sake I guess it's a good thing New England did not listen to the experts about Tom Brady's short comings as a college prospect b/c they sure translated to the pros... or the reverse of that ... how about Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf. They were can't miss by most experts.

Since you are willing to share your opinion so freely what are the qualities you see in an amazing QB prospect? What is lacking in McCoy, Tebow & Bradford?
I have to head to work, but I'll give you my thoughts when I get back. I should also say that while I don't agree with you, you are certainly free to have your own opinion on each QB. I know there are other Lions posters that agree with you on Tebow (ASmitty comes to mind, although I never think that Stanton lover knows what he's talking about ;) ).
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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2 national championships, a heisman trophy and he chooses to return for a senior season to a stacked Florida team to compile even more gaudy statistics. Pretty amazing.

He is already in the conversation as one of the greatest college football players of ALL time. Yes, that is pretty amazing.

You may not like his "in the pocket presence" or his "down the field accuracy" or even his "40 yard dash time" like other scouts but come on bro, cut the guy some slack what he has done as a QB so far is pretty amazing despite what his future is in the NFL.
Ok those are impressive credentials I'll give you that and also his down the field accuracy is not that bad IMO. But the only place Tim Tebow is going to succeed is where ever Mike Martz ends up. Only the Guru of QBs can take the Mechanics that Tim Tebow has into a good/great pro prospect. When I see Tebow I think Byron Leftwich with a longer windup and more mobility.
Oh we all know someone is going to take an early flyer on this guy but I for one think he takes too long of a wind up to be successful behind anything but the greatest of NFL lines
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Looks like you're a Michigan fan ironman.
Well for your sake I guess it's a good thing New England did not listen to the experts about Tom Brady's short comings as a college prospect b/c they sure translated to the pros... or the reverse of that ... how about Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf. They were can't miss by most experts.

Since you are willing to share your opinion so freely what are the qualities you see in an amazing QB prospect? What is lacking in McCoy, Tebow & Bradford?
Tom Brady is the extreme anamoly I also think that if he was a first round pick he would have failed those two/three seasons behind Drew Bledsoe really helped him. When making an argument agenst the experts they love to point out when they were wrong there is always one bust in every draft but for that one bust there are 31 that they got right.


I like Bradford he doesn't have the arm that I'd like but he is very accurate and if he can adapt from the spread he'll be a hell of a pro. I havn't seen enough of McCoy to make an opinion.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Looks like you're a Michigan fan ironman.
Well for your sake I guess it's a good thing New England did not listen to the experts about Tom Brady's short comings as a college prospect b/c they sure translated to the pros... or the reverse of that ... how about Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf. They were can't miss by most experts.
I'd take Tim Tebow in the 6th Round..
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Tim Tebow in the 6th Round as a fullback..
Fixed it for you
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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My boy, Zack Follett, has impressed Charles Davis. Davis complements Follett for having good instincts. When you look at Follett, he does not impress you in terms of his size and muscles like a Rey Maualuga would. But when Zack finds you with the ball, he will find a way to stop you. Follett is probably the best pass rushing linebacker. 6-1, 238. Follett finished 2008 with 10 sacks and 5 force fumbles. He is very good against the run and average against the pass. He had 9 tackles and 2 sacks against Miami in the Emerald Bowl.

I'm not sure why i am not a big fan of Rey Maualuga. I feel a lot of the USC players get too much attention because they come from a football factory and look so physically imposing.

There is one thing you cannot measure by a scale or a ruler, that is heart. You can be all muscles like Rey and Orakpo, but players like Follett and Alphonso Smith make up for their lack of size by being able to know how to play the game and use every inch of their height and weight to make themselves into very good football players. The always seem to be in the right place, at the right time. They given 100% in all 4 quarters.

Graham Harrell may not have the arm strength that a Bohmar or Stafford has, but he has the uncanny ability to predict where the receiver will be and throw an accurate pass.

If you go to :47, you will see how relentless Follett is in terms of rushing the QB and pushing an obvious bigger man out of the way to get a sack and force a fumble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LCzkDhYN7A

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