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Old 01-23-2009, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Tebow has a lot more upside as a pro QB than McCoy. Tebow has big time tools, but he needs to rework basically his entire approach to the position and rework his mechanics. McCoy seems like a full on college QB with backup potential to me. He's not in a pro-style offense, and he doesn't have any outstanding tools except for pretty good mobility.

Bradford is another one, didn't anyone learn anything from the title game about this guy?

I personally wouldn't take any of these guys in round 1, im not a believer in mid first and late first QB's. If a QB isn't grading out as an elite talent, I don't take him, I'm going with something else and taking a QB later on.
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
Tebow has a lot more upside as a pro QB than McCoy. Tebow has big time tools, but he needs to rework basically his entire approach to the position and rework his mechanics. McCoy seems like a full on college QB with backup potential to me. He's not in a pro-style offense, and he doesn't have any outstanding tools except for pretty good mobility.

Bradford is another one, didn't anyone learn anything from the title game about this guy?

I personally wouldn't take any of these guys in round 1, im not a believer in mid first and late first QB's. If a QB isn't grading out as an elite talent, I don't take him, I'm going with something else and taking a QB later on.
I agree that Tebow has the highest ceiling and lowest floor of all the QB candidates next year.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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I would love Tebow as a Lion. He might not be the answer, but the team needs the karma.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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If Detroit passes on Stafford this year in hopes of getting Tebow/McCoy or Bradford next year, I'll rip my eyes out. Such an unnecessary gamble.

Tebow specifically will not be half the QB Stafford will become in the NFL. Don't we already have a poor man's Tebow in Stanton as it is?
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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I would love Tebow as a Lion. He might not be the answer, but the team needs the karma.
I worry Tebow would become the next Alex Smith. Same head coach and offensive scheme; a scheme that doesn't translate to the pro-level. Sure he can run, but can he digest a pro-style offense. And what is he like when not playing behind an elite offensive line (which is not what he would get on the lions). Do we need the QB love child of Alex Smith and Tavaris Jackson?
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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Yea, you don't pass on a prospect of Stafford's caliber hoping that someone else emerges as a guy of that quality. We already know that no one next year will match his talent physically with the big time arm, the quick release and the mobility, why risk it?

I know you guys want defense too, but the value is just too good for QB at pick 1 and tackle at 20....

I have been thinking about the draft and other things for a while now, and I really am a defensive guy, and I think strong defensive teams are the way to go BUT, to me, it seems that a strong defense beats a good offense, but you can sometimes ignite an entire offense with one really good player and solid protection, where as great defense can be made with 11 really solid guys and no true superstars.....
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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you can sometimes ignite an entire offense with one really good player and solid protection, where as great defense can be made with 11 really solid guys and no true superstars.....
Thats an outstanding point, too bad the Lions dont have any of those things.
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Looks like you're a Michigan fan ironman.
Well for your sake I guess it's a good thing New England did not listen to the experts about Tom Brady's short comings as a college prospect b/c they sure translated to the pros... or the reverse of that ... how about Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf. They were can't miss by most experts.

Since you are willing to share your opinion so freely what are the qualities you see in an amazing QB prospect? What is lacking in McCoy, Tebow & Bradford?
First thing I'd say is that the Patriots DID listen to the experts. If they thought there was any chance he's turn into a Hall of Fame caliber player, there's no way they would have waited until the end of the draft to take him. Regardless of what other teams thought, they'd have taken him right away to not risk anyone else getting him. To be honest, they just got lucky.

Now, I'll say this about Tebow. He has the physical ability to be a good QB. Florida has given him a good shot to improve by hiring Scot Loeffler, Michigan's old QB's coach, who's one of the best around IMO. That said, as of now, I think he's at best a second or third round pick at QB.

Footwork-Tebow's footwork is fairly poor. He has little experience dropping back from under center (Pat Kirwan said he's taken something like 2 snaps from under center his whole career, and run actual play action like one time). His set up is also poor.

Accuracy-Completely missing receivers is not necessarily a huge problem. But he's not accurate at putting balls in a spot for only his receiver to get to.

Decision making-Not that he makes poor decisions. But he plays in an offensive system that doesn't force him to make pro reads. There are very few option routes in a spread or spread option offense. And he has enough talent around him that his first look is usually open. When it's not, he struggles.

System-Goes with the above point. There are very few pro reads in that offense. He rarely if ever has to work on 3, 5, or 7 step drops. This leads to his footwork and set up being poor. It's just not an offense that is conducive to pro success. Very few QB's coming from a spread or spread option system have had success in the NFL.


I'll be honest, I haven't watched Bradford or McCoy as much this year. My biggest issue with them is the system they play in. I'm not saying that Tebow can't be a good QB. But he is a project that will take 3-4 years to develop, and even that is a huge risk. I don't think that's the type of guy you take in the first round, let alone the top 10. I'll be honest, my personal best comparison for Tim Tebow is:

Tim Tebow=Drew Stanton with a better team
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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To be honest, I'd like to know what people actually like about Tebow other than his accomplishments at the college level.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Tebow is straight line fast, he has a strong arm, he's tough as nails and he's pretty powerful (for a QB) when he puts his shoulder down.

That said, he has a terribly slow release, his ability to operate a pro offense is in question, he has a lot of spread habits that will have to be broken, and I think his speed will be negated since he isn't really that elusive and he will get killed trying to run in the NFL.

He is a fairly smart guy, a tremendously hard worker, and I never use this as a plus for anyone because it is usually a cop out, but guys love to play with Tim Tebow and they gravitate around him.

He could become a pro QB imo, but it will take a few years, and he has to be willing to put in a lot of work.

I'm not big on project QB's unless the upside is massive(Mike Vick and Vince Young type projects).
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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this entire draft has me thinking....how can we screw this up? if we take stafford at number 1 then how can we turn our draft grade into a C or worse? draft players not ranked in the top 100 for the next couple of picks? trade all of our picks for washed up vets? no matter what we would still get the top rated QB (or sanchez whoever is top) and can't really be blamed for the decision. staff and mau is solid, but so is a dozen other possibilities. does dizon have a brother in this draft? kicker with the 2nd round pick? how do we mess this up? even a wideout isn't horrendous if it helped stafford. atleast not worthy of a D grade with stafford headlining.
this made me laugh because it's so painfully true. Unless we go K/P with the first two picks, we wouldn't REALLY be able to have a draft that doesn't help the team. It's the advantage of hitting rock bottom: nowhere to go but up.

Also: I really like Sanchez for some reason, but I don't watch college ball so what the hell do I know, right?
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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Default Follett is AWESOME

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Originally Posted by 5 Fingers of Death View Post
My boy, Zack Follett, has impressed Charles Davis. Davis complements Follett for having good instincts. When you look at Follett, he does not impress you in terms of his size and muscles like a Rey Maualuga would. But when Zack finds you with the ball, he will find a way to stop you. Follett is probably the best pass rushing linebacker. 6-1, 238. Follett finished 2008 with 10 sacks and 5 force fumbles. He is very good against the run and average against the pass. He had 9 tackles and 2 sacks against Miami in the Emerald Bowl.

I'm not sure why i am not a big fan of Rey Maualuga. I feel a lot of the USC players get too much attention because they come from a football factory and look so physically imposing.

There is one thing you cannot measure by a scale or a ruler, that is heart. You can be all muscles like Rey and Orakpo, but players like Follett and Alphonso Smith make up for their lack of size by being able to know how to play the game and use every inch of their height and weight to make themselves into very good football players. The always seem to be in the right place, at the right time. They given 100% in all 4 quarters.

Graham Harrell may not have the arm strength that a Bohmar or Stafford has, but he has the uncanny ability to predict where the receiver will be and throw an accurate pass.

If you go to :47, you will see how relentless Follett is in terms of rushing the QB and pushing an obvious bigger man out of the way to get a sack and force a fumble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LCzkDhYN7A
Follett has some great you tube love ... I have enjoyed watching his highlights and really think he will be an eventual starter in the league ... sooner than later if it's with our squad! Was it you who mentioned the commentator who said Follett looked like he was "playing with his hair on fire" in one of Cal's games this year? That is perfect vocabulary to describe him on the field. I like him with our second 3rd round pick (or if he stays a sleeper with our 5th round pick)

Imagine if you will: Rey "the mauler" in the middle with Sims & Follet running wild on the outside ... that would be a HUGE defensive upgrade. I just drooled ... get them a STUD nose tackle that comamnds a double (Ziggy Hood, Roy Miller, Ron Brace) that would be a fantasitc start to stopping the run like Schwartz has talked about.
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