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Old 01-27-2009, 06:47 AM    (permalink
Abaddon
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Default Bears thinking CB in the early rounds?

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotr...the-draft.html

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Cornerback is one area of need for the Bears in preparation for the April NFL Draft. Current Bear Nathan Vasher is all but out of the mix unless he suddenly adds nastiness to his repertoire, and Corey Graham still has strides to make before the coaches consider him a legitimate, 16-game starter.
I dunno what the consensus is on Vaughn McClure, but I found this to be interesting if only because it's different.
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Old 01-27-2009, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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The Bears pass defense was obviously atrocious last year, but I'm not sure CB is a top need to fix it. Vasher seemed to fall off the face of the earth last year, but i expect him to bounce back a little in 09. I was mad they signed him to that large extension, because he doesn't have the skills to go man-on-man. He is only effective in 100% zone D. Corey Graham was impressive for a rookie. Most CBs take a few years to fully develop.

A ball-hawking Safety or pass rushing DE/DT could go alot further to solve the pass D than a CB.
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Old 01-27-2009, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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There are skilled CB's available in this draft and selecting one would bring competition to Graham and VashER, while we can move Peanut to FS where he would do well.

I love Alphonso Smith. Obviously undersized, however he makes up for it with his awareness, coverage skills, and quickness.
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Old 01-27-2009, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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What's the easiest way to make your CB's look better.

Make your pass rush better.
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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lol, this talk of moving Tillman to FS is hilarious! Lets see here, our cornerbacks are already pretty weak, so lets move our best corner to FS and replace him with a rookie!!! THAT MAKES A TON OF SENSE!*@&#*(@&#

give me a break.
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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I agree I'd rather have pass rush, but all the good pass rushers are gone by the 18th pick and I don't expect JA to trade up for one, unfortunately. I expect us to trade down where I'd prefer Britt or Nicks, maybe Delmas or another OL, but grabbing a good corner would be nice also.
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Old 01-28-2009, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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What's the easiest way to make your CB's look better.

Make your pass rush better.
I keep trying to tell Al Davis that, but he's not taking my calls.
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Old 01-31-2009, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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What's the easiest way to make your CB's look better.

Make your pass rush better.
DING DING DING!! :)

End of discussion. Maybe a real FS wouldn't hurt....I hate Dan Manning there.
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Old 02-05-2009, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotr...-prospect.html

Well it shouldn't be a surprise if Jarius Byrd is the guy. Don't know which round.
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotr...-prospect.html

Well it shouldn't be a surprise if Jarius Byrd is the guy. Don't know which round.
Yeah, thats a possibility....but I still would prefer that we not go CB until the 4th at the earliest....Anything in my sig would be wiser choices.

However, JA does seem to love his corners.....ugh. Another small schooler in the 2nd round is gonna piss me off.
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Old 02-15-2009, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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lol, this talk of moving Tillman to FS is hilarious! Lets see here, our cornerbacks are already pretty weak, so lets move our best corner to FS and replace him with a rookie!!! THAT MAKES A TON OF SENSE!*@&#*(@&#

give me a break.
You know, Tillman was projected as a potential perennial pro-bowl FS if we moved him there a couple years ago, don't know about now, but he had that projection. Tillman is also overrated as a CB. Yes, he gets turnovers, yes he's one of the, if not the best corner at getting fumbles. But he's noticeably declined in coverage. Less than a quarter of the passes thrown his way did he force an incompletion. That's really bad.

Brown was pretty bad this year in pass-coverage, he was pretty good against the run, but either we bench Payne and move Brown over to SS, or we need a new FS badly. Tillman's declining coverage skills wouldn't be as much of a liability at the FS spot, and he'd be in better positions to create turnovers.
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Old 02-15-2009, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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You know, Tillman was projected as a potential perennial pro-bowl FS if we moved him there a couple years ago, don't know about now, but he had that projection. Tillman is also overrated as a CB. Yes, he gets turnovers, yes he's one of the, if not the best corner at getting fumbles. But he's noticeably declined in coverage. Less than a quarter of the passes thrown his way did he force an incompletion. That's really bad.

Brown was pretty bad this year in pass-coverage, he was pretty good against the run, but either we bench Payne and move Brown over to SS, or we need a new FS badly. Tillman's declining coverage skills wouldn't be as much of a liability at the FS spot, and he'd be in better positions to create turnovers.
I'm willing to bet though that at least 75% of our pass defense issues stemmed from generating no pass rush. Harris wasn't playing like Tommie Harris, none of our NTs are really great, and our ends were constantly getting blocked one on one. So many times did I see the other team's QB with a perfect pocket around him....he could have held onto the football as long as he wanted. Then when we blitzed to try and counter our lack of pass rush, they'd just destroy us with short stuff....it was hellish.

The Cover 2 is all about getting pressure with just your front 4 forcing the other team to make turnovers with all your other guys in coverage. We failed that this year.
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Old 02-15-2009, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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The Bears pass defense was obviously atrocious last year, but I'm not sure CB is a top need to fix it. Vasher seemed to fall off the face of the earth last year, but i expect him to bounce back a little in 09. I was mad they signed him to that large extension, because he doesn't have the skills to go man-on-man. He is only effective in 100% zone D. Corey Graham was impressive for a rookie. Most CBs take a few years to fully develop.

A ball-hawking Safety or pass rushing DE/DT could go alot further to solve the pass D than a CB.
Vasher had one overrated year when he made the pro-bowl due to interceptions, but he's been bad and injury prone for the past two years. It's clear our '06 pass-rush made Vasher look a lot better than he actually is.

I was pretty impressed with Graham for a rookie, he made some nice plays towards the end of the season.

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I love Alphonso Smith. Obviously undersized, however he makes up for it with his awareness, coverage skills, and quickness.
I like Smith a lot, but I don't think he'd work well here in Chicago. Wrong system and wrong division.

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What's the easiest way to make your CB's look better.

Make your pass rush better.
I completely agree. But there isn't a great 4-3 pass-rusher in this draft. It's loaded with 3-4 OLB that can pass-rush. I don't know if the Bears would want to draft an undersized 4-3 End in the first round. The best value at the FS position is in the 2nd round. And the best corners, for us, will be a reach with the #18 pick. I doubt management would draft Vontae Davis. I'm hoping they can bring in someone in FA so we don't feel compelled to reach to fill a need. Or possibly a trade down for more picks in the 2nd where the value for the players we want is better.
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Old 02-15-2009, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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I'm willing to bet though that at least 75% of our pass defense issues stemmed from generating no pass rush. Harris wasn't playing like Tommie Harris, none of our NTs are really great, and our ends were constantly getting blocked one on one. So many times did I see the other team's QB with a perfect pocket around him....he could have held onto the football as long as he wanted. Then when we blitzed to try and counter our lack of pass rush, they'd just destroy us with short stuff....it was hellish.

The Cover 2 is all about getting pressure with just your front 4 forcing the other team to make turnovers with all your other guys in coverage. We failed that this year.
Completely agree. One of my friends insists that Harris actually had an underrated stretch of games in the middle of the season, but we have the bar set so high for Harris that it's still a disappointment. Our NT are all great for depth, we don't have a decidedly good one, but we have potential with Harrison and Adams. I'd rate Dvoracek as a mini-bust since he's been hyped too much.

It doesn't say good things for our CB's when they can't play alone though.
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Old 02-15-2009, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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Completely agree. One of my friends insists that Harris actually had an underrated stretch of games in the middle of the season, but we have the bar set so high for Harris that it's still a disappointment. Our NT are all great for depth, we don't have a decidedly good one, but we have potential with Harrison and Adams. I'd rate Dvoracek as a mini-bust since he's been hyped too much.

It doesn't say good things for our CB's when they can't play alone though.
Well, with Harris, I know that two of his five sacks came when Trent Green in the Rams game and Dan Orlovsky in the Lions game (iirc anyway...) just fell down on their own and Harris just happened to be the first to touch them down.
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Old 02-15-2009, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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I'd love to get either Louis Delmas or Alphonso Smith with our 1st rounder. Both would provide immediate upgrades.
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Old 02-15-2009, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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I'd love to get either Louis Delmas or Alphonso Smith with our 1st rounder. Both would provide immediate upgrades.
Neither would be immediate upgrades. Neither would start.
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Old 02-15-2009, 06:03 PM    (permalink
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Neither would be immediate upgrades. Neither would start.
Yeah, if we don't cut Vasher a first round corner might be like....5th on the depth chart? Tillman, Vasher, Graham and Dan Manning in the nickel where he's at his best.
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Old 02-15-2009, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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Neither would be immediate upgrades. Neither would start.
Alphonso Smith > Vasher (I'd be shocked if he isn't cut), Graham, McBride, Bowman, Manning etc.

Louis Delmas >>>>> Manning and Steltz
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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Smith is not better than Graham and McBride and prolly not better than manning at nickle
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Alphonso Smith > Vasher (I'd be shocked if he isn't cut), Graham, McBride, Bowman, Manning etc.

Louis Delmas >>>>> Manning and Steltz
Potential starter like you said: Manning>Steltz>Delmas.

Long term potential: Manning>Delmas>Steltz.

What is with all the Delmas love? Since when is he an elite FS prospect. He's a decent FS prospect and a good SS prospect. How would he be a better pick than a DE, RT, OG, WR?
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Potential starter like you said: Manning>Steltz>Delmas.

Long term potential: Manning>Delmas>Steltz.

What is with all the Delmas love? Since when is he an elite FS prospect. He's a decent FS prospect and a good SS prospect. How would he be a better pick than a DE, RT, OG, WR?
The love for Delmas is the that he outperformed William Moore in the Senior Bowl and those workouts, plus he's not fat like Moore. Anyways, people still forget that the crop of safeties this year blow compared to 2010's expected draft class. There are no real 1st round safeties.

Also, Delmas is projected to play corner in the pro's. He'd be a liability at SS, he'd be a good FS prospect, and potentially a better CB prospect. 5'11, 200 pounds. I think he could be a pretty good cover 2 corner. I'm having dreams of him being like Nnamdi, a kickass FS turned CB. Not likely since Nnamdi is a freak, but one can dream.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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Delmas needs a lot of work. The potential is there with his athletic ability.
I would think that Rashad Johnson is a better fit at FS. He's also a playmaker and a leader. That arrest that he had was way overblown.
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:52 PM    (permalink
BeerBaron
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Originally Posted by MidwayMonster31 View Post
Delmas needs a lot of work. The potential is there with his athletic ability.
I would think that Rashad Johnson is a better fit at FS. He's also a playmaker and a leader. That arrest that he had was way overblown.
I didn't even know about it til right now, lol. Shows how much I care.....
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Old 02-16-2009, 09:02 PM    (permalink
MidwayMonster31
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I didn't even know about it til right now, lol. Shows how much I care.....
http://blog.al.com/rapsheet/2008/02/...on_offere.html
It was an arrest for disorderly conduct, but the charges were dropped.
If they are picking a cornerback, using the compensatory pick on Kennan Lewis could also be a good idea. He fits the scheme well.
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