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Old 02-01-2009, 01:59 PM    (permalink
katnip
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My OL list... The past decade+ ones...

1 - Orlando Pace
2 - Willie Roaf
3a - Tony Bosseli
3b - Jonathan Ogden
5 - Walter Jones

Any1 else see this with me?
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Old 02-01-2009, 02:30 PM    (permalink
Malaka
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Mine would have to be

1. Jonathan Odgen
2. Orlando Pace
3. Willie Roaf
4. Walter Jones
5. Tony Bosseli

Thats how I see it, but my view is skewed, I have only been following football for 2 years.
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Old 02-01-2009, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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We should also remember we have never seen a guy that size be so quick and agile. It was really a matter of time before he started to break down.

I would consider Boselli as HOF-worthy (he falls into the Terrell Davis category), but I would not put him Top 5 all-time at LT. Maybe Top 10.

Glenn needed to be more dominant earlier in his career for me to buy him. He made the Pro Bowl in his last three seasons before hanging it up.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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Personally, Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden and Walter Jones are the best Left Tackles to ever play the game. As for Right Tackles I would go with Willie Anderson.

From a pure physical stand point Jonathan Ogden and Orlando Pace are the prototype and the pinnacle of what a OLT can be.

At 6'9 330lbs. Ogden could quite possibly be the biggest and most intimidating left tackle to ever play the game. As for pure athleticism and smooth, fluid like play along with phenominal size, Orlando Pace at 6'7 315lbs. would be the best all around tackle to ever play.

Any tackle that is less than 6'3 and less than 300lbs. wouldn't be a dominant tackle in todays game. Thats how I look at the best players all that ever played. How would they play in all eras?

For instance, Jim Brown would be an All-Pro in all eras, John Elway and Dan Marino would be great in all eras. Lawrence Taylor would be great in all eras. Very few players from before the 80's do I consider the greatest to ever play.

For example, people would most likely include Joe Greene as on eof the greatest DT's to ever play the game. I, on the other hand, wouldn't put him in the top 10. He was 6'3 265lbs. He would end up having to play end in the NFL today and from what footage I have seen of him I don't think he can own a player like Pace or Ogden, thus he is not on eof the greatest.

Think abou tit this way, if Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Jared Allen, Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor, Brain Urlacher, Juilian Peterson, Kevin Williams, Deon Sanders, Rod Woodson, Ed Reed, Sean Taylor, Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Barry Sanders, Antonio Gates, Leonard Davis, Alan Faneca, Steve Hutchinson, Willie Anderson, Orlando Pace, Warren Sapp, DeMarcus Ware, Willie Roaf, Tony Bosselli, Brain Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Haloti Ngata, Adrian Wilson, Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald, Aeneas Williams, Nick Mangold, Cortez Kennedy, Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork, LaRon Landry, Ronnie Lott, Ray Lewis, John Randle, Steve Largent, Tory Holt, Marshall Faulk, Ty Warren. Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Kris Jenkins, Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, Jim Kelly, Ben Rothlisberger, Carson Palmer, Chris McCalister, Derrick Brooks, Simeon Rice, Tommie Harris, Clinton Portis, Bruce Smith, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Derrick Thomas, Larry Allen, Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, Terrell Owens and many many more, are all better than 99% of the players before the 80's. Because they can play in any era, while only a handful of old time players can play in todays game because lack of size, speed, exploision, game planning, agility, leaping ability, strength, etc.

Todays game is almost a completely sifferent game, and if a player absolutely dominants in todays game, then he destroys in yesterdays era. There is no comparison.

Thats why Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace and Walter Jones are the best 3 OLT's to ever play the game. The epitomize the position and what you look for. Pace and Ogden are the physical prototype of the position. They don't say NFL teams are looking for the next Anthony Munoz, they are looking for the next Pace or Ogden or Jones. This isn't baseball, its more like basketball and hocky. Todays game is o much different, and because players are bigger, stronger and faster and because they have the same or better skill sets, they are just better.

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Old 02-02-2009, 06:42 AM    (permalink
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I don't think it is right to compare eras, because yes today's athlete is faster, stronger, more athletic...hell, players in the '70s and earlier used to smoke cigarettes right in the locker room after a game! Guys take care of their bodies way more now.

I think it is better to compare guys against their contemporaries from the time period they played. The game evloves over time.

And that's why I almost think we need a dividing line when comparing players to one another when it comes to eras. Almost like this:

1. Pre-1959 (the '58 title game changed the way we watched the game)

2. The AFL Days (1960-1969)

3. The Pre-Free Agency Period (1970-1989)

4. Modern Day (1990-Present)

This is something I am going to check out in moe detail.
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burger View Post
I say the best left tackles in the modern age
1) Roaf/Odgen
2) Pace
3) Jones
4) Boselli
5) Clifton

you serious?
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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I think Orlando Pace is being greatly underrated by alot of posters. He may be headed towards chump status now, but in his prime he was truly amazing.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MarioPalmer View Post
Personally, Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden and Walter Jones are the best Left Tackles to ever play the game. As for Right Tackles I would go with Willie Anderson.

From a pure physical stand point Jonathan Ogden and Orlando Pace are the prototype and the pinnacle of what a OLT can be.

At 6'9 330lbs. Ogden could quite possibly be the biggest and most intimidating left tackle to ever play the game. As for pure athleticism and smooth, fluid like play along with phenominal size, Orlando Pace at 6'7 315lbs. would be the best all around tackle to ever play.

Any tackle that is less than 6'3 and less than 300lbs. wouldn't be a dominant tackle in todays game. Thats how I look at the best players all that ever played. How would they play in all eras?

For instance, Jim Brown would be an All-Pro in all eras, John Elway and Dan Marino would be great in all eras. Lawrence Taylor would be great in all eras. Very few players from before the 80's do I consider the greatest to ever play.

For example, people would most likely include Joe Greene as on eof the greatest DT's to ever play the game. I, on the other hand, wouldn't put him in the top 10. He was 6'3 265lbs. He would end up having to play end in the NFL today and from what footage I have seen of him I don't think he can own a player like Pace or Ogden, thus he is not on eof the greatest.

Think abou tit this way, if Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Jared Allen, Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor, Brain Urlacher, Juilian Peterson, Kevin Williams, Deon Sanders, Rod Woodson, Ed Reed, Sean Taylor, Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Barry Sanders, Antonio Gates, Leonard Davis, Alan Faneca, Steve Hutchinson, Willie Anderson, Orlando Pace, Warren Sapp, DeMarcus Ware, Willie Roaf, Tony Bosselli, Brain Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Haloti Ngata, Adrian Wilson, Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald, Aeneas Williams, Nick Mangold, Cortez Kennedy, Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork, LaRon Landry, Ronnie Lott, Ray Lewis, John Randle, Steve Largent, Tory Holt, Marshall Faulk, Ty Warren. Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Kris Jenkins, Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, Jim Kelly, Ben Rothlisberger, Carson Palmer, Chris McCalister, Derrick Brooks, Simeon Rice, Tommie Harris, Clinton Portis, Bruce Smith, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Derrick Thomas, Larry Allen, Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, Michael Irvin, Terrell Owens and many many more, are all better than 99% of the players before the 80's. Because they can play in any era, while only a handful of old time players can play in todays game because lack of size, speed, exploision, game planning, agility, leaping ability, strength, etc.

Todays game is almost a completely sifferent game, and if a player absolutely dominants in todays game, then he destroys in yesterdays era. There is no comparison.

Thats why Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace and Walter Jones are the best 3 OLT's to ever play the game. The epitomize the position and what you look for. Pace and Ogden are the physical prototype of the position. They don't say NFL teams are looking for the next Anthony Munoz, they are looking for the next Pace or Ogden or Jones. This isn't baseball, its more like basketball and hocky. Todays game is o much different, and because players are bigger, stronger and faster and because they have the same or better skill sets, they are just better.
The problem with that logic is that if you give the old timers the year round training, supplements, and sports science technologies that players of today have, whose to say they wouldn't be just as good in today's era?

Also, I don't believe that every player that plays today could play across all eras. Deon Sanders? The guy that literally ran away from having to make a tackle playing in the blood and guts games of the 60s and 70s? Please. Can you imagine Peyton Manning or Tom Brady literally getting broken on every play in an era where quarterbacks were not protected at all? Both of them, Peyton especially, fall apart when you can consistently put pressure on them. Remember, too, that offensive linemen pre-1976 were not allowed to extend their arms and use their hands AT ALL. If they did, it was a 15 yard holding penalty (yes holding was a 15 yard penalty pre-76). Plus, the head slap was a perfectly legal and often used tactic by defensive lineman. Offensive linemen had it much, much, much more difficult in the older game.

You're giving today's players a little too much credit and not giving enough to the old guys. Remember, today's football is much closer to basketball on grass than it is to real football.

Last edited by yourfavestoner : 02-03-2009 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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I think Orlando Pace is being greatly underrated by alot of posters. He may be headed towards chump status now, but in his prime he was truly amazing.
Pace is my #6, by the way, with Walter Jones #7. I like put the others in my top 5 because the played at a high level for a decade or more. Pace started to fall apart in 2006 and has not really been the same since.

But yes, he was a stud from '99-'05. I can't argue with you on that. If we got another two or three full seasons out of him, I move him even with Ogden.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:47 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
The problem with that logic is that if you give the old timers the year round training, supplements, and sports science technologies that players of today have, whose to say they wouldn't be just as good in today's era?

Also, I don't believe that every player that plays today could play across all eras. Deon Sanders? The guy that literally ran away from having to make a tackle playing in the blood and guts games of the 60s and 70s? Please. Can you imagine Peyton Manning or Tom Brady literally getting broken on every play in an era where quarterbacks were not protected at all? Both of them, Peyton especially, fall apart when you can consistently put pressure on them. Remember, too, that offensive linemen pre-1976 were not allowed to extend their arms and use their hands AT ALL. If they did, it was a 15 yard holding penalty (yes holding was a 15 yard penalty pre-76). Plus, the head slap was a perfectly legal and often used tactic by defensive lineman. Offensive linemen had it much, much, much more difficult in the older game.

You're giving today's players a little too much credit and not giving enough to the old guys. Remember, today's football is much closer to basketball on grass than it is to real football.
I agree to a certain extent, but I don't know about those players in terms of how big, fast or strong. I know what I see now, and as tough, nasty and as mean as they were, I don't see them lasting intodays game with the amount of speed and precision thats necassary. Your right about those penalties, but todays game is in no doubt a better game. I'm glad our QBs are protected, I'm glad O-Lineman can extend their arms, it makes the game faster and more livelier. Todays game is perfect, and because todays game is faster, bigger, stronger and a lot more smarter I have to go with who ever is best now to be in my top players.

I'm not saying that all players from that era are inferior. Guys like Jim Brown, Deacon Jones, Joe Namath, Johnny Unitis, Kellen Winslow, O.J. Simpson, Gale Sayers, Dick Butkis (but he'd be a 2 down LB at best) and so on. And even with them I still don't think they are better than Payton Manning, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, Champ Bailey, Rod Woodson, Reggie White, Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, Randy Mosss, etc. Because they are what the football player has evolved into.

Its like saying that the average human 200 years ago was healthier, smarter, stronger, biiger faster. Its evolution, and in sports, specifically contact sports, it's obvious. So thats why guys now, to me, are considered the best to play this game, just like 20 years from now the best players will be better than the players today. It's the nature of sports.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:48 AM    (permalink
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I would think he should have a place in the top five.
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I dunno even half of those guys why did we sign them jeez.
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