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Old 02-02-2009, 02:04 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
See the first post.
I saw it because I responded to it.
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You made quite a bit of speculation on my post. I wasn't making some drastic comparison to an average QB like Rodger and playmaker like Big Ben. I was just saying, for a guy who did what he did with that O-Line is something very few NFL QBs can do. That is a fact, my friend. Supported by evidence. That evidence being watching other QBs.
You have no idea how other QBs would have reacted in those situations. None whatsoever. And you were making a drastic comparison to every QB and Big Ben believe it or not. How do you know very few QBs can do that? I would take atleast 8 guys before I take Big Ben to lead my team down the field on a final drive. Saying they cant do what he did last night is ignorant to the skill set of every other QB in the league. Whether you meant to or not is your call but thats the way I read it.

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I have been and they aren't talking about Big Ben at all. Pretty much everything else.
I made a gross speculation because ESPN usually overplays the story. I'm not even going to bother watching ESPN the next week because of the amount of time they spend on one story.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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As a Bengals fan I have almost always considered him to be more of a manager than an elite NFL QB. This year he has proven me wrong in that regard and last night he played very well. That TD pass at the end was a thing of beauty on both ends(Ben and Holmes).
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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umm maybe im a wrong, but its not like Roethlisberger sucked up until the last drive. He played great football through out the game which maybe isnt refelected in the stats
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Old 02-02-2009, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Not really. There's been alot of good game ending drives.

It was a nice drive, but not the best ever.
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Old 02-02-2009, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Ben over Rivers and Manning any day of the week. Rivers may have the stats...but Ben just wins. He makes play after play with that abomination that they call an OLine. How many last minute drives did he have this year? It was ridiculous. I'm not calling Ben an elite QB. But he is pretty damn clutch. And I'd take him over most QBs in this league.
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LaMarr Woodley, Norse God of Thunder/Baby Jesus/Killer of all things QB, set an NFL record by getting multiple sacks in three consecutive playoff games. Don't **** with LaMarr.
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Old 02-02-2009, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Ben over Rivers and Manning any day of the week. Rivers may have the stats...but Ben just wins. He makes play after play with that abomination that they call an OLine. How many last minute drives did he have this year? It was ridiculous. I'm not calling Ben an elite QB. But he is pretty damn clutch. And I'd take him over most QBs in this league.
that maybe sounds kinda cliché, but Rivers had no running game, no Defense. if he had the defense i bet he could do the same
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Give Ben and Holmes the credit but that Arizona defense was atrocius on that last drive, zero pass rush and that left side of the secondary couldnt cover anyone.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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Steelers fans:

STOP OVERRATING BEN.

He's a solid quarterback. Not great. Solid quarterbacks occasionally make great plays. Great quarterbacks occasionally make bad plays. Ben is a player who sometimes makes a great play, not the other way around.

Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Warner, Cutler are all better quarterbacks right now. I would also probably take Matt Ryan over Big Ben, because he's going to be a better quarterback soon.

I love how you guys are obsessed about having the best defense in the league, but then are so quick to go on about how Ben "just wins games". What the hell is it? His first Superbowl was definitely not him "winning" the game. This super bowl he was solid, with one great throw. Where the defense had a pick 6 for 100 yards and a game ending forced fumble (I have no idea how in God's name they didn't at least REVIEW the play, however). Ben is top 10, not top 5. Put any of the QB's I listed above on this current Steelers team and they are even better.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Whomecouldntbe View Post
Steelers fans:

STOP OVERRATING BEN.

He's a solid quarterback. Not great. Solid quarterbacks occasionally make great plays. Great quarterbacks occasionally make bad plays. Ben is a player who sometimes makes a great play, not the other way around.

Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Warner, Cutler are all better quarterbacks right now. I would also probably take Matt Ryan over Big Ben, because he's going to be a better quarterback soon.

I love how you guys are obsessed about having the best defense in the league, but then are so quick to go on about how Ben "just wins games". What the hell is it? His first Superbowl was definitely not him "winning" the game. This super bowl he was solid, with one great throw. Where the defense had a pick 6 for 100 yards and a game ending forced fumble (I have no idea how in God's name they didn't at least REVIEW the play, however). Ben is top 10, not top 5. Put any of the QB's I listed above on this current Steelers team and they are even better.
jesus christ, they reviewed the Fumble upstairs and determined it is not a fumble...
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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If Eli won it last year then Ben clearly deserved it this year.
Yeah I thought he should have got it. But Holmes did play out of skull as well. So either player would have been good!

But that's what you expect from a franchise QB. To able to drive your team down and win the game when all the pressure in the world is on you. That draft class is a very sick draft class.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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It's just you. That last drive was all Santonio Holmes. Holmes had the huge run after the catch on that 40 yard completion. Although Ben deserves credit for putting the ball where the defenders couldn't get it on that touchdown pass, at least 80% of the receivers in football don't make that catch. Not to mention that Holmes also had to make a tough catch at the beginning of the drive.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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that maybe sounds kinda cliché, but Rivers had no running game, no Defense. if he had the defense i bet he could do the same
That is true, but Ben had no running game this season either. The thing that sets apart the two is Ben's ability to make plays out of the pocket. He can be out of the pocket on the run and throw it to any place on the field. Now I am biased, but that's how I feel. I like Rivers a lot though, he's right there with Ben. Eli takes a big back seat to both no question in my mind.
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LaMarr Woodley, Norse God of Thunder/Baby Jesus/Killer of all things QB, set an NFL record by getting multiple sacks in three consecutive playoff games. Don't **** with LaMarr.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by P-L View Post
It's just you. That last drive was all Santonio Holmes. Holmes had the huge run after the catch on that 40 yard completion. Although Ben deserves credit for putting the ball where the defenders couldn't get it on that touchdown pass, at least 80% of the receivers in football don't make that catch. Not to mention that Holmes also had to make a tough catch at the beginning of the drive.
I wouldn't say ALL holmes. Ben was huge on that drive. But yes most of the credit goes to holmes. Most of the playoff credit could go to holmes as well, he was HUGE.
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LaMarr Woodley, Norse God of Thunder/Baby Jesus/Killer of all things QB, set an NFL record by getting multiple sacks in three consecutive playoff games. Don't **** with LaMarr.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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That is true, but Ben had no running game this season either. The thing that sets apart the two is Ben's ability to make plays out of the pocket. He can be out of the pocket on the run and throw it to any place on the field. Now I am biased, but that's how I feel. I like Rivers a lot though, he's right there with Ben. Eli takes a big back seat to both no question in my mind.
But Rivers is FAR superior to Ben inside the pocket. Rivers only attempted 9 more passes, but put up 700 more yards, 17 more TD's, and 4 less picks. He also averaged about a yard and a half more per attempt. He also got sacked about half as much (some of that is attributable to the line, but a lot of it is that Rivers is simply much better at getting rid of the ball). Is Ben better at turning a broken play into a solid one? Yes. But Ben is also going to break plays much more often than someone like Rivers, so he better be able to make up for that after.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Whomecouldntbe View Post
Steelers fans:

STOP OVERRATING BEN.

He's a solid quarterback. Not great. Solid quarterbacks occasionally make great plays. Great quarterbacks occasionally make bad plays. Ben is a player who sometimes makes a great play, not the other way around.

Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Warner, Cutler are all better quarterbacks right now. I would also probably take Matt Ryan over Big Ben, because he's going to be a better quarterback soon.

I love how you guys are obsessed about having the best defense in the league, but then are so quick to go on about how Ben "just wins games". What the hell is it? His first Superbowl was definitely not him "winning" the game. This super bowl he was solid, with one great throw. Where the defense had a pick 6 for 100 yards and a game ending forced fumble (I have no idea how in God's name they didn't at least REVIEW the play, however). Ben is top 10, not top 5. Put any of the QB's I listed above on this current Steelers team and they are even better.
What the hell are you talking about? Yes the defesne is the best part of the team, but how the hell can you discredit him? A third of the games this year were decided by game winning drives...engineered by Ben. I'm not calling Ben an Elite QB. I'm calling him a clutch QB. Perfect example is Terry Bradshaw. Bradshaw was a tard. He wasn't the best QB by far. But look at the superbowl victories. He went up against QBs Fran Tarkenton and Roger Staubach. Both were better QB's than him. But Bradshaw was clutch and knew how to win the big game. Something Fran never did, and that's one of the greatest QBs of all time. That's why I'd take Ben over someone like MATT RYAN. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? You are gonna take a rookie over Ben? Did everyone forget Ben made the Pro Bowl last year? Ben is a very good QB. By no means is he at the elite status like Manning or Brady. To me, those two are clearly on there own level, and then there are interchangeable guys filling out the rest. But he's a very good Quarterback.
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LaMarr Woodley, Norse God of Thunder/Baby Jesus/Killer of all things QB, set an NFL record by getting multiple sacks in three consecutive playoff games. Don't **** with LaMarr.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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no way was ben mvp. he did almost nothing, only like 20 yards passing in the 2nd half until that drive. and he was bailed out on that drive by holme's awesome catches.

to clarify, if limas sweed was out there instead of holmes then the steelers would have lost. it wasn't ben, it was holmes as mvp.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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no way was ben mvp. he did almost nothing, only like 20 yards passing in the 2nd half until that drive. and he was bailed out on that drive by holme's awesome catches.

to clarify, if limas sweed was out there instead of holmes then the steelers would have lost. it wasn't ben, it was holmes as mvp.
I'd hardly call 21-30 250+ yards nothing... He wasn't the MVP obviously, but I think he still was a big part of the game.
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LaMarr Woodley, Norse God of Thunder/Baby Jesus/Killer of all things QB, set an NFL record by getting multiple sacks in three consecutive playoff games. Don't **** with LaMarr.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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yeah 180 yards was in the 1st half. up until that last drive he did nothing in the 2nd half.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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yeah 180 yards was in the 1st half. up until that last drive he did nothing in the 2nd half.
ok I'll give you that. i thought you meant for the game he did absolutely nothing besides that drive. Because he started off pretty good.
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LaMarr Woodley, Norse God of Thunder/Baby Jesus/Killer of all things QB, set an NFL record by getting multiple sacks in three consecutive playoff games. Don't **** with LaMarr.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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they are going to be scary next year if they can fix that line. i'd say dockett ruined big ben's hopes for the MVP with his efforts in the 2nd half.
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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they are going to be scary next year if they can fix that line. i'd say dockett ruined big ben's hopes for the MVP with his efforts in the 2nd half.
...That's a big if on the Oline front. probably gonna lose Starks (not a bad thing) and Smith I have no clue what his status is. He's just always hurt. Simmons really I don't know what to think, another guy who's injuries are killing him. Nice thing though is that hopefully Rashard will come back and become an effective back.
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Pittsburgh Steelers....6 Time Champs!
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:25 PM    (permalink
mqtirishfan
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Originally Posted by HinesWardJr View Post
People won't put Big Ben in the top 5 because of stats, but that's all that people look at now a days. Outside of Brady, he has the most Super Bowl rings that most quarterbacks do in the league. He just wins.
Going by stats is wrong, because as we all know, only having the #1 defense in the NFL and good receivers makes you the best QB in the NFL.
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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Going by stats is wrong, because as we all know, only having the #1 defense in the NFL and good receivers makes you the best QB in the NFL.
Did anyone miss Arizona shredding the defense after they had a solid lead?
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:12 PM    (permalink
HellonEarth84
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ive come to realize the steelers oline is not bad, its just ben is never in the pocket ever and so they have to scramble around all the time to make them look bad.
Stapleton is terrible.

Dockett was killing him all night long. There was a point where the camera zooms up on Dockett after he got a TFL and he's clearly saying "This guy cant block MEEE!!" lol...
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:13 PM    (permalink
HellonEarth84
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to clarify, if limas sweed was out there instead of holmes then the steelers would have lost. it wasn't ben, it was holmes as mvp.
You could also say - If Charlie Batch was out there instead of Big Ben, the Steelers wouldve lost.
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