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Old 03-08-2009, 04:39 PM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
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Greg Lewis is a great deep threat, which is what the Pats needed. Dude gets down field in a hurry and is often forgotten. Getting him and a 2010 pick for a 2009 pick sounds solid. It doesn't take them out of the running to select a WR, though. Just gets them a piece they really needed.

Signing Springs was huge. I like both Wilhite and Wheatley, but the Pats really needed to add a proven veteran like Springs (or McAlister) who's been around and done some things (and can still play).

Retaining James Sanders was also huge. While he's been dissappointing relative to what his potential was/is perceived to be, he's still possibly better than anyone in this draft and could be better than any available FA's...

Losing Evans sucks. Doesn't mean they need a FB, though...they use Hochstein for the rare amount of lead blocking they employ anyway...just means they need to fill another big hole on special teams. Izzo, Evans, and Washington were their best ST players, and they might lose all 3 of them.
I agree with all these points - I can see Greg Lewis doing what Donte Stallworth was able to do for us in 2007. He's not a steal by any means, but here's the basis of why New England traded for him (just so people can see things the way Belichick did when he made the trade):

- Fairly young player who should be entering his prime soon
- Great deep threat, has a very high career yards per catch
- Has performed very well against the Patriots over his career
- Can stretch the field opposite Moss and prey on 1-on-1 coverage
- Potential replacement for Kelley Washington on kick/punt teams
- Cheap contract that comes out to only about 3 years, $1.8 million

Basically, they're willing to sacrifice the fifth round pick to get an affordable project at wide receiver. It's likely in this market that New England would have had to vastly overpay to address wide receiver in free agency - look at how much money people spent on Houshmandzadeh, Owens, Coles, Washington, etc. - and this is more cap-friendly. Plus, it's not like a fifth round pick really has a spectacular chance at making the roster either.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:20 AM    (permalink
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Guys I am a Patriots fan who has been living here outside of Philly for 10 years now. Greg Lewis is not a difference maker. He is not a field stretcher. He has absollutely NO special teams value. He did not dress the second half of the season because 6 guys the Eagles had were better wrs and COULD play somewhere on special teams. He is no better than 50-50 to make the roster next year. That is why the Patriots are getting back the 7th rounder next year. It is essentially a 5 for a 7 and a shot in the dark on lewis contributing. No way he has Stallworth-like impact.

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Old 03-10-2009, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Guys I am a Patriots fan who has been living here outside of Philly for 10 years now. Greg Lewis is not a difference maker. He is not a field stretcher. He has absollutely NO special teams value. He did not dress the second half of the season because 6 guys the Eagles had were better wrs and COULD play somewhere on special teams. He is no better than 50-50 to make the roster next year. That is why the Patriots are getting back the 7th rounder next year. It is essentially a 5 for a 7 and a shot in the dark on lewis contributing. No way he has Stallworth-like impact.
Yeah, I agree.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Greg Lewis is good when he's forgotten...which can only happen when you have an elite WR or two on the field with him. There's no one on the Eagles that gets doubled because they're all basically the same level of receiver. The Pats have 2 guys that get doubled, making Greg Lewis useful.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Leigh Bodden is a Pat, love the move. He has had some injuries but he is 27 and has a ton of ability, he had some good seasons in Cleveland too. Hopefully he and Springs can stay healthy and perform well, pushing Hobbs to nickel and Wilhite and Wheatley behind him. Corner is not as much of a need but we still may take one on the first day, you never know.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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just saw on espn.com that the patriots have just signed leigh bodden. pretty sweet, got two veteran corners.

........

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3968052

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Hope you don't mind the cross thread qoute, but this seemed like it belongs in this thread.

I like this signing, and would have been happy w/Bodden getting a multi year deal on a "buy low" basis. A terrible year with the Lions doesn't seem like a good guage of his skills to me. Either way, it looks like a draft spot just opened up for O or D line. Or the more likely scenario of a trade for picks in 2010.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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I think we're a better team with Bodden than without him but I'm not that excited about this...he signed a one-year deal at the veteran minimum making me think there might be something that the whole league knows about this guy that isn't so good (i.e. one of his many injuries catching up to him?) .

I hope he can return to his 2005-2006 glory days in cleveland but something tells me that if people thought that scenario was even remotely possible, he'd be getting more than a 1 year minimum wage deal...
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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we're definitely getting one of the corners Day 1, hopefully Byrd...I don't really like any of the other top corner prospects outside of Vontae Davis (who we probably don't have a shot at) because they're all shorter than 5'10.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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I think we're a better team with Bodden than without him but I'm not that excited about this...he signed a one-year deal at the veteran minimum making me think there might be something that the whole league knows about this guy that isn't so good (i.e. one of his many injuries catching up to him?) .

I hope he can return to his 2005-2006 glory days in cleveland but something tells me that if people thought that scenario was even remotely possible, he'd be getting more than a 1 year minimum wage deal...
True, but the reward greatly outweighs the risk in this signing. He is still relatively young and if he can stay healthy he could be a contributor.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Agreed, the pats are definitely being prudent and I don't think this is a big risk at all--Let's hope it works out.

I'm surprised the patriots haven't made moves for guys like Marvin Harrison or Torry Holt, maybe these high profile guys aren't as satisfied with the market they're getting. They seem like patriot-personality guys.

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Old 03-10-2009, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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I'm excited about this....
this has me thinkin of which way to go in the draft now
I think it all depends on who's available.
If the BPA isn't a corner at that point- I think we skip the CB
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Leigh Bodden is a Pat, love the move. He has had some injuries but he is 27 and has a ton of ability, he had some good seasons in Cleveland too. Hopefully he and Springs can stay healthy and perform well, pushing Hobbs to nickel and Wilhite and Wheatley behind him. Corner is not as much of a need but we still may take one on the first day, you never know.
"...pushing Hobbs to nickel..."

??? C'mon, that's just dumb. Hobbs is at-worst, a #2 NFL CB. He's gotten it done, and proven himself too many times to have people say this crap about a couple broken-bodies like Shawn Springs and Leigh F'ing Bodden (whose "good" seasons in Cleveland really weren't that great) pushing Ellis Hobbs to nickel.

I do like the Bodden signing, along with Springs though. It solidifies the position and makes it less of an immediate draft need. The Patriots can focus the early picks to positions that suffer huge drop-offs in talent after the 1st & 2nd round positions like OT, WR, DL, and S. They can find a guy that's comparable to the first & second round corners, like Joe Burnett, a little later.
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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"...pushing Hobbs to nickel..."

??? C'mon, that's just dumb. Hobbs is at-worst, a #2 NFL CB. He's gotten it done, and proven himself too many times to have people say this crap about a couple broken-bodies like Shawn Springs and Leigh F'ing Bodden (whose "good" seasons in Cleveland really weren't that great) pushing Ellis Hobbs to nickel.

I do like the Bodden signing, along with Springs though. It solidifies the position and makes it less of an immediate draft need. The Patriots can focus the early picks to positions that suffer huge drop-offs in talent after the 1st & 2nd round positions like OT, WR, DL, and S. They can find a guy that's comparable to the first & second round corners, like Joe Burnett, a little later.
Hobbs is not a bad corner, but he is not a #1 cornerback. I think he could be an elite nickelback and I was saying what I though would be the best case scenario-Springs and Bodden play great and stay healthy. They probably both won't be better than Hobbs, I just think Hobbs could be an elite nickel back. He has the ability to be a great #2 and has been a solid player for us, but he has had his bad moments too. Most of his bad moments came when he had to be the #1 guy, if at least one of Springs/Bodden can emerge as a bonafide starter that will make Hobbs that much better. That is pretty much what I was trying to say.
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Bodden has never been better than Hobbs.
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Bodden has never been better than Hobbs.
People beat out people who are supposedly better than them. It has happened before, and it will continue to happen. Bodden has also never played on a team with a good pass rush, he has never played with much of a supporting cast, and he has never played on a very good team period. He could come here and tear it up for all we know, or he could do nothing. Hobbs does catch a lot of flak and he is not a terrible corner, he is a solid player for us. But that does not mean that if Bodden outperfroms Hobbs that Hobbs will play over Bodden.
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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Bodden has never been better than Hobbs.
That's just not true. Bodden was one of the better corners around for a time. Had a big time reputation for being the only one who could shut Chad Johnson down during his prime years. Fully expect Bodden to start over Hobbs and probably Springs if he's healthy. Absolutely enamored with the deal.

Still think we need a corner though. Byrd would still look real good in round two.
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:51 AM    (permalink
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That's just not true. Bodden was one of the better corners around for a time. Had a big time reputation for being the only one who could shut Chad Johnson down during his prime years. Fully expect Bodden to start over Hobbs and probably Springs if he's healthy. Absolutely enamored with the deal.

Still think we need a corner though. Byrd would still look real good in round two.
I would love Byrd in round 2. I do think the Springs and Bodden signings are going to help us out quite a bit, it is just natural for Pats fans to be hesitant in thinking that with recent veteran busts like Tory James and Deltha O'Neal. The expectations are a lot higher for these guys because they both have something left in the tank. Hobbs is not trash and is a good player for us but I think Springs and Bodden could prove to be great accquisitions if they stay healthy.

That being said, I would still have no problem if we added one more young corner. Jairus Byrd would be awesome. Safety is a much bigger need in the secondary now, however.
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:50 AM    (permalink
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I agree that we're kinda of being forced to take a safety now. No big free agents at the position left.

Oh, and yeah, Hobbs is an alright corner...but ideally he is a nickelback.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Bodden has never been better than Hobbs.
Bodden has always been better than Hobbs. I don't like him, but he's been a good cornerback in the NFL for a long time. Even a top one with the Browns for a while.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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Guys I am a Patriots fan who has been living here outside of Philly for 10 years now. Greg Lewis is not a difference maker. He is not a field stretcher. He has absollutely NO special teams value. He did not dress the second half of the season because 6 guys the Eagles had were better wrs and COULD play somewhere on special teams. He is no better than 50-50 to make the roster next year. That is why the Patriots are getting back the 7th rounder next year. It is essentially a 5 for a 7 and a shot in the dark on lewis contributing. No way he has Stallworth-like impact.
While I don't think Greg Lewis has the kind of talent that Stallworth does, I also don't think people like Wes Welker, Reche Caldwell, or David Givens did, either, and all of them vastly improved under Tom Brady. Recent wide receivers and their differences with and without Brady:

Randy Moss:

Raiders, 2006: 42-553-3
Patriots, 2007: 98-1,493-23

Wes Welker:

Dolphins, 2006: 67-687-1
Patriots, 2007: 112-1,175-8

Deion Branch:

Seahawks, 2006: 53-725-4
Patriots, 2005: 78-998-5

David Givens:

Titans, 2006: 8-104-0
Patriots, 2005: 59-738-2

Reche Caldwell:

Chargers, 2005: 28-352-1
Patriots, 2006: 61-760-4
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:09 AM    (permalink
cdf_2108
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In a weird way, I'm happy that the patriots are paying Bodden more than ESPN had originally leaked they were going to pay him. He's getting 2.25 mil not 750k. It makes me think that people are still pretty confident in his big-time potential.

The fact that some of the cockiest NFL players (Kellen Winslow, Chad Johnson) called Bodden one of the best corners in the league tells me we could have found ourselves in the perfect situation with Leigh Bodden: bad market, previous team sucked, huge potential, low risk.

When healthy, Bodden + Springs definitely start over Hobbs but I agree Hobbs would be a good number 2, and all this experience will be great for the younger guys (wheatley and wilhite). If Vontae Davis falls to 23 i say we still take him, but other than that, we shouldn't take a corner until late round 2 unless the value is overwhelming.

I hope the Patriots go after Marvin Harrison, he would be a great #2 and that way we could use Welker in the Slot where he's more effective.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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He had 1 season that didn't suck. Big difference from: "...been a good cornerback in the NFL for a long time."

"Even a top one with the Browns for a while."

Not saying much at all here...

Hobbs has been the more consistent player and is still growing as a player. It's flat-out ridiculous to say Bodden is better. Could Bodden be better? Yes. Let's hope for the best...but the dude's an ass hole, who knows how long he lasts in that lockerroom...
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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He had 1 season that didn't suck. Big difference from: "...been a good cornerback in the NFL for a long time."

"Even a top one with the Browns for a while."

Not saying much at all here...

Hobbs has been the more consistent player and is still growing as a player. It's flat-out ridiculous to say Bodden is better. Could Bodden be better? Yes. Let's hope for the best...but the dude's an ass hole, who knows how long he lasts in that lockerroom...
One season where he didn't suck? You must be thinking of a different player. From 2005-2007 he was a number one caliber cornerback. he struggled last year when he was asked to play in the Cover 2. Completely misused in Detroit.

Hobbs is hardly consistent and isn't getting any better. I guarantee you're the only person here who will argue he's the better corner.
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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I'd say Bodden is the better talent and has a much higher ceiling. For right now, however, I would argue Hobbs is the better corner. My expectation is that Bodden returns to form and becomes a true #1 again like he was with the Browns, at which point he will prove he is the better corner by far.

Semantics. ;) But he has to show us he is the better corner.

The guy definitely has great skills that were completely wasted in Detroit. At 0-16 it's safe to say the was the case with most guys in Motor City last season.


I would not be at all surprised to see Hobbs pushed to dime back this season. I like him, but I think Springs, Bodden and Wheatley will emerge as the top 3.
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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I hope the Patriots go after Marvin Harrison, he would be a great #2 and that way we could use Welker in the Slot where he's more effective.
No thanks. Marvin is completely done. He couldn't beat a red-headed stepchild at this point in his career. I'd rather see a rookie in there. Same goes for Holt, since he was mentioned somewhere else, too.


Then again, there are very few options left at WR . . . maybe they're working on a Boldin trade since the trigger was pulled so early on the Cassel trade. [/dream]
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