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Old 02-05-2009, 08:25 PM    (permalink
PACKmanN
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Originally Posted by proshoota25 View Post
cassel right? lol
this is ESPN we are talking about, I mean Brady. ZOMG CASSEL>>>BRADY lol
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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this is ESPN we are talking about, I mean Brady. ZOMG CASSEL>>>BRADY lol
lmao yea haha
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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Dude, Matt Cassel is totally better than Brady and I think we would have won every Super Bowl in history with him. He does so many things better early on with an inferior offense and without sitting for years and years! Brady is the best quarterback in the NFL, but Cassel is somehow better for the team or something. Yeah. That sounds spirited and reactionary.

-ESPN

Seriously though, good move. Let's at least get something for the guy. He's a damned good quarterback, but he isn't anywhere near Brady right now. He's in the Derek Anderson last year neighborhood. If Brady's ready, we cash in.
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Geo View Post
Once Cassel signs the tender, it's fully guaranteed.
Something he should do ASAP.

Why not?

$14.5M this season guaranteed, probably to be a backup. Next offseason you hit the market again. So you're basically going to get 2 signing bonuses in 2 seasons.

All for one decent season in ideal circumstances. What a pay day.

Charles Woodson did it to the Raiders to force them to not tag him the next offseason, and it worked. Cassel should do it to cash in and achieve much the same thing.

Are the Pats even *really* prepared to have his $14.5M on the cap this season? If not, playing with the franchise tag is akin to playing with fire.
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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Uhhhh I'm sorry you guys, but I thought the major problem with getting the tag was that it in fact isn't guaranteed money... which is why players hate getting it.

Am I wrong here? (honest question).

Oh and also: unless they amputate Brady's leg, Cassel's outta NE.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Unless I'm mistaken, the reason most players hate the tag is because it pales in comparison to the signing bonus+guaranteed money a new deal would likely grant them. Once it is signed, I believe it becomes guaranteed.

In this case, the tag is actually about what Cassel will likely get SB wise.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Unless I'm mistaken, the reason most players hate the tag is because it pales in comparison to the signing bonus+guaranteed money a new deal would likely grant them. Once it is signed, I believe it becomes guaranteed.

In this case, the tag is actually about what Cassel will likely get SB wise.
They don't like it because they have no long term security. If they get hurt while playing on a 1 year contract it will kill their chances at a big payday.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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They don't like it because they have no long term security. If they get hurt while playing on a 1 year contract it will kill their chances at a big payday.
oh ok. I thought it was like a high contract with no bonus.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:21 PM    (permalink
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They don't like it because they have no long term security. If they get hurt while playing on a 1 year contract it will kill their chances at a big payday.
Right, which basically means what I said - the guaranteed mulla on a new deal is going to usually be a lot more than the tag. If the tag rules stated the player is paid the same he'd get guaranteed on a new 5 year deal, then I'm sure they wouldn't mind at all.

And for Cassel it will probably be close to that. And when you consider he'll likely be a backup this season away from danger and a free agent again in a year, the tag becomes even more attractive for him. He really should sign the tag right away.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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oh ok. I thought it was like a high contract with no bonus.
I think it's considered guaranteed base salary once signed - sorta like how veteran base salaries are guaranteed if they're on the roster starting week 1 or whatever it is.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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I think it's considered guaranteed base salary once signed - sorta like how veteran base salaries are guaranteed if they're on the roster starting week 1 or whatever it is.
yeah, that's one thing i never really got. the money is guaranteed as soon as they sign, but some of the players ***** when they get tagged a few seasons in a row. maybe it's just me, but i'd take the $14 million x 3 years. i'll take the 42 million over the three years over the $30 million they would get with a long term contract, plus the "guaranteed money/signing bonus" in a long term contract isnt always guaranteed, just ask mike vick (yes i know he was a dumb ass and killed his career) or kellen winslow jr. some of the time the "guaranteed money" is in the form of roster bonuses that they should be able to make, but some times arent. just ask deangelo hall about his raider contract
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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yeah, that's one thing i never really got. the money is guaranteed as soon as they sign, but some of the players ***** when they get tagged a few seasons in a row. maybe it's just me, but i'd take the $14 million x 3 years. i'll take the 42 million over the three years over the $30 million they would get with a long term contract, plus the "guaranteed money/signing bonus" in a long term contract isnt always guaranteed, just ask mike vick (yes i know he was a dumb ass and killed his career) or kellen winslow jr. some of the time the "guaranteed money" is in the form of roster bonuses that they should be able to make, but some times arent. just ask deangelo hall about his raider contract
I'd have to get my buddy to answer these questions. He's got the Salary cap down to a near exact science.
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Meh....how often does ACL reconstruction really go wrong these days? Hell Carson Palmer came back from the same injury in less than 8 months. The Patriots are franchising Cassell because he's a *potential* franchise quarterback for someone. Look at how much the Falcons were able to get for Matt Schaub - who had a much less extensive body of work than Cassell. The Patriots are being smart - there are not a lot of quality quarterbacks in this league and you can recoup a lot of value if you happen to have an extra one lying around on your roster.
I'm not 100% sure but didn't Brady's knee get infected? And didn't he have to have 1-2 additional surgeries to get the infection out and repair it again because it wasn't working right?

again not 100% sure but I thought I heard that.
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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The thing is, the tag isn't normally this high for most positions. When players complain, they're usually looking at $6-9M rather than the 15-20 they may get guaranteed on a new deal. I don't think QB's getting tagged is that common, they're usually instant long term deal candidates.

That, and I think some players exaggerate it's impact. Having serious objections to the tag can't hurt even if it's not as bad as made out.

A smart poster over on a Titans board put forward the possibility Cassel won't be a UFA next offseason since, if the non capped year comes about, players don't become UFA's until their 6th season (or something like that). So Cassel will be a RFA. Therefore, it's probably not that great idea for him to sign the tag ASAP as he won't likely get a big deal next offseason.
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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Could this mean, the Pats aren't confident in Brady returning for the season opener next year? Or they just want some insurance behind Tom?
Trade bait. They drafted O'Connell and will use him if need be, but Brady has a long time to recover. In all the hoopla made over his infection nobody bothered to mention that guys like Palmer & McNabb returned the next season after suffering similar injuries much later in the season.

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or they just want to get compensation for him, which would be brilliant... you possibly could turn a 7th rounder into a first.....
Exactly. Probably into a first and second. My guess is the 1st rounder would be a conditional pick, so maybe this years 2nd rounder and next year 1st/2nd depending on his play.

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I honestly think if no trade was worked out, they'd release him and take no hit.
Doubt it. They'd have to be over cap to get nothing for him. Why not keep him w/Brady coming off injury? He's proved he can get the job done.
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:52 AM    (permalink
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Also, does anyone know if there is actually a franchise contract on the table that he could sign immediately? I don't know if the team actually has to offer it to be signed the same day.

Either way, signed or not he can be traded. The contract is basically meaningless when a trade deal is worked out, as a different (presumably long-term) deal would be worked out with the new team.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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A team would be stupid to give up 1st or second for this guy. Seriously, he proved he can be pretty good with an outstanding supporting cast, what is he going to do with an inferior group around him?
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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A team would be stupid to give up 1st or second for this guy. Seriously, he proved he can be pretty good with an outstanding supporting cast, what is he going to do with an inferior group around him?
Not many QB's are good without a supporting casts.

All that matters to me is he proved (even if it was agaisnt bad D's) he can throw the ball at the NFL level, and he is young enough to keep growing. I'de pay him, and give up a 1st this year and a conditional 3rd next year. QB's are invaluable at this level.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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A team would be stupid to give up 1st or second for this guy. Seriously, he proved he can be pretty good with an outstanding supporting cast, what is he going to do with an inferior group around him?
This post is so full of fail.

Because he played on a team with Randy Moss, automatically he's a scrub? Let's not forget that the o-line fell off from its play last year, and they had absolutely no running game to speak of. The TE position also disappeared from that offense, so it was basically Cassel, Moss, Welker and whatever was left from the offensive line.

He performed exceptionally well given the conditions, and should a team with a solid foundation built already take him, he will be very good. What kind of quarterback can you get in the second round that can step in automatically and win 11 games for you?
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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A team would be stupid to give up 1st or second for this guy. Seriously, he proved he can be pretty good with an outstanding supporting cast, what is he going to do with an inferior group around him?
So he's proved more than any college QB who would cost a 1st round pick in the draft. Isn't that proof worth a second round pick?


I've seen this argument many times now and I still think it's silly. Cassel will most likely sign a contract that costs LESS than the first QB off the board this year and has done far more in the NFL with just one season under his belt.

imo, that means he's worth a 1 & 2.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FlyingElvis View Post
So he's proved more than any college QB who would cost a 1st round pick in the draft. Isn't that proof worth a second round pick?


I've seen this argument many times now and I still think it's silly. Cassel will most likely sign a contract that costs LESS than the first QB off the board this year and has done far more in the NFL with just one season under his belt.

imo, that means he's worth a 1 & 2.
I agree with that sentiment, for the most part. A first and a second in the same year is a little much, but he's worth a first.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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It will cost any team who wants him TWO 1st-round picks.

Do you guys think he is worth it then? I think he is to teams who are a QB away from big postseason runs, but not for a team who is building from the ground up.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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It will cost any team who wants him TWO 1st-round picks.

Do you guys think he is worth it then? I think he is to teams who are a QB away from big postseason runs, but not for a team who is building from the ground up.
Doesn't really matter if he's worth it or not at that point. Don't think any team would give up two first rounders for him...and I think it would be more than a bit foolish if they did.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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Not many QB's are good without a supporting casts.

All that matters to me is he proved (even if it was agaisnt bad D's) he can throw the ball at the NFL level, and he is young enough to keep growing. I'de pay him, and give up a 1st this year and a conditional 3rd next year. QB's are invaluable at this level.
All he proved was that he could put up decent numbers with an ELITE cast and coaching cast.

Honestly his TD total considering the talent he had on that team was not even that impressive. He had one of the highest percentages in the league of passes between 1-10 yards and he cost Randy Moss at least half a dozen TDs this season by missing him deep.

Derek Anderson looked far more dominant in his one season as a starter and Anderson was younger and more talented.


Honestly Im actually hoping that a team is stupid enough to give up a ton of picks for this guy just so he can be exposed
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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It will cost any team who wants him TWO 1st-round picks.

Do you guys think he is worth it then? I think he is to teams who are a QB away from big postseason runs, but not for a team who is building from the ground up.
I was under the impression that the Pats could work out a deal with a team that was interested in Cassell and they could negotiate what they would ask for in return because it was an unconditional franchise tag.
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