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Old 02-17-2009, 01:12 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
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Originally Posted by MarioPalmer View Post
This team goes as far as Carson takes them, this is the first move to seperate the two boners Chad and T.J. and its a good one. If you can't dump Chad then you dump his puppy T.J.

This team will draft one of the O-Lineman to protect Carson or Palmer will file suit against the Bengals for being the ******* Bungals and ruining a Hall of Fame talent.
I agree that this team is slowly ruining Palmer's career. He obviously has all-world talent, and he has shown he can put it together, but he is slowly developing bad habits as a quarterback due to a horrible supporting cast. He is not the quarterback he was his first years in the league, and it has absolutely nothing to do with injury, and everything to do with bad management.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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This team goes as far as Carson takes them, this is the first move to seperate the two boners Chad and T.J. and its a good one. If you can't dump Chad then you dump his puppy T.J.
What are you talking about. Yeah the first move toward success is dismantling your top ten offense. T.J. is and has been the heart of this team-why don't you ask Carson if he's okay with dumping T.J.

I'm curious what the Bengal game plan is. Rumors are both Chad and T.J. out. Are they trying to trade for T.O? or Boldin? or what.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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^ Interesting . . . If they could get Boldin to pair with Chad for his final season . . .


Franchising the Kicker is fine. But it will be irrelevant if they have no offensive weapons to get them into field goal range in the first place. Bengals = Fail. But that's nothing new.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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^ Interesting . . . If they could get Boldin to pair with Chad for his final season . . .
That would be borderline ********, and everyone on the FO would need to be fired if they traded for Boldin.

Where the hell is the logic in that? Why do you need ANOTHER headache WR?
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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A. Everyone in their FO should be fired anyway.
B. Boldin is a one year headache, and would be The Man when Chad leaves next year.
C. Neither Housh nor CJ want to stay in Cincy, so the Bungles would need a #1 WR to go with their franchised Kicker. ;)
D. I didn't even put the idea forward, why are you quoting me?? lol
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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To those complaining about them not tagging Houshmandzadeh, just get it through your head that the Bungles have given up on trying to win now. They need to re-build that team, and it doesn't make sense to give top dollar to an aging WR.

Tagging Graham assures them of keeping their top flight kicker, at a small cost.
I couldn't disagree more with the re-building comment. The Bengals are seen as a trendy sleeper next season and for good reason. If you asked the casual football fan where the Bengals defense finished this season, they'd probably tell you something along the 20th-27th line. The Bengals finished 12th in the league in total defense and did it while missing WLB Keith Rivers for a good portion of the season, as well as starting DE's Antwan Odom and Robert Geathers (3rd DE Frostee Rucker also missed a lot of time.) Marvin White/Chinedum Ndukwe and Dexter Jackson were also unable to stay healthy at Safety. Jonathan Joseph, arguably the team's top corner battled injuries as well. Still, this young, injured, unit finished 12th in the league.

The Bengals also have a franchise QB to rely on. All signs are pointing to Palmer being 100% now, so he should be absolutely fine throughout the whole spring-workout process. Cedric Benson had a very promising end to the season, and I'd love to see him back in stripes next season, as I would with WLB Brandon Johnson. The Bengals couldn't afford Housh's franchise tag which is a ridiculous total. I'm not sure if the Bengals are being cheap here, or if they're ready to make a legitimate push in free agency. They are the team right now with the 5th best cap situation, I believe, with right around 28$ mil to burn. The team still has a #1 in Chad and Andre Caldwell showed enough a year ago to step up into that #2 spot. Chris Henry will man the 3, Jerome Simpson the 4, perhaps Marcus Maxwell the 5 spot. The offensive line needs some work, not a complete re-building process (Whitworth, Williams, and Collins are all solid pieces), but perhaps a veteran and rookie Center, along with a rookie Tackle to man either the Left or maybe even just the Right side.

Mike Zimmer did big things with that defense, and with roughly 9 picks in the upcoming draft, coupled with the fact that the Bengals are nearly 28 million under the cap, I wouldn't be so quick to call the Bengals a team in recovery mode. They did win three straight to close the season and will carry a little of that momentum, as well as a much easier schedule into 2009-10.

Would it surprise me if the Bengals made the playoffs in 2009-10? Yes, it would. Is it impossible? Not by a long shot. This team has much more hope and winning pieces than say, the Atlanta Falcons or Miami Dolphins did a year ago at this time.

I am a Bengals fan, I recognize there is some bias there, but I want to point out that the team is still very young with plenty of options on offense and the league's most improved defense of 2008-09. Zimmer's second year schooling the Bengals in his system should be big, and I expect even more improvement from this young unit.

As for tagging Shayne Graham, it saves a lot of money and saves Cincinnati from having to go out and find a kicker that can match the most accurate Kicker in Bengals history.
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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MetSox17
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That would be borderline ********, and everyone on the FO would need to be fired if they traded for Boldin.

Where the hell is the logic in that? Why do you need ANOTHER headache WR?

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A. Everyone in their FO should be fired anyway.
B. Boldin is a one year headache, and would be The Man when Chad leaves next year.
C. Neither Housh nor CJ want to stay in Cincy, so the Bungles would need a #1 WR to go with their franchised Kicker. ;)
D. I didn't even put the idea forward, why are you quoting me?? lol
It would be headache for headache. Housh is out on the 27th.
And honestly, if Chad, Boldin, TO, Plax-if these guys are headaches I want my squad to have a permanent migraine. The cancer WR is a cliche unless he shots himself in the leg or can't catch 20 or so passes his way. (Edwards) Really-it's about coaching-a strong coach handles all that BS and keeps winning games.
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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A. Everyone in their FO should be fired anyway.
B. Boldin is a one year headache, and would be The Man when Chad leaves next year.
C. Neither Housh nor CJ want to stay in Cincy, so the Bungles would need a #1 WR to go with their franchised Kicker. ;)
D. I didn't even put the idea forward, why are you quoting me?? lol
Chad actually said he wanted to stay on national television (NFL Network.) After losing T.J. (which we pretty much have), I feel we'll clutch on to our #1 WR more than ever. The Bengals are not repotedly shopping him, agent Drew Rosenhaus is. Basically, I think Chad will stay on as a mentor for our young receivers Simpson and Caldwell.
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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ThePudge
I agree with you-but rumors( I understand it's just rumors) are Chad out as well. They are in a good position but what are they doing with their vet REC.? Chad and Henry and Caldwell and the TE are not reliable.

EDIT- I just read your last post-kind of answers my question
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Even if Chad stays for this season he's likely out in 2010. If the Bengals are lousy again in 09 I would be shocked if Chad even considers playing for them, barring a franchise tag that prevents him from leaving.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Why the heck not? What's wrong with tagging a kicker? If you have no one else to use it on, why not?
Why not Houshmanzadeh?
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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Why not Houshmanzadeh?
He was disgruntled, he didnt want to stay and well it would be really expensive for just 1 year
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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He was disgruntled, he didnt want to stay and well it would be really expensive for just 1 year
I guess your right but to me it still doesnt make sense to tag a kicker.
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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I guess your right but to me it still doesnt make sense to tag a kicker.
better to be good at some position than at none
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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I guess your right but to me it still doesnt make sense to tag a kicker.
A Kicker tag runs 1 Year 2.48 mil.

A Wide Receiver tag, 1 Year 9.98 mil.

9.98 - 2.48 = 7.50 million = One reason T.J. was not tagged.

Also, factor in the young Bengals receiving core (including promising Andre Caldwell, Jerome Simpson, and Chris Henry.) We still have a #1 threat at Wide Receiver in Chad Johnson, Caldwell looks to be the guy to take T.J.'s place. He came on near the end of last season and adds more in terms of speed and versatility. A true player to watch in 09' if the Bengals don't draft a WR high or chase one via trade or free agency.

Graham is one of the league's best and most accurate kickers. He remains the Bengals all time most accurate kicker. Behind him, we have literally nothing.

I don't oppose the move at all. I will be sad to see T.J. go, he is a very solid player who does the little things. Still, the team will move on with more money and promising young replacement plan, so it's tough to be mad.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:55 PM    (permalink
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They weren't going to tag TJ, so I support the move. Graham is by no means the best kicker in the league, he's automatic from 35 in, the long ones he's as bad as anyone else but I like kicking to not be a weakness for our team.

I would rather have TJ than Chad, that aggravates me about all of this. We're not far from being a defensively minded team (believe it or not) so it's not all bad.

Carson will just need Henry/Caldwell/whoever to get open for the 5-10 yard passes and hit Chad for the long ball. We MUST have someone to go over the middle, it won't be Chad.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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At least they tagged a guy who wants to be there? A good kicker is a hard thing to find.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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Two pages on a kicker. Interesting.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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Graham is one of the league's best and most accurate kickers. He remains the Bengals all time most accurate kicker. Behind him, we have literally nothing.
Behind every kicker is about 200 guys on the street that can do the job pretty much just as well. Sorry, but I subscribe to the Bill Parcells theory of kickers are completely disposable and not football players.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by senormysterioso View Post
Behind every kicker is about 200 guys on the street that can do the job pretty much just as well. Sorry, but I subscribe to the Bill Parcells theory of kickers are completely disposable and not football players.
I respect that opinion, but strongly disagree here. Kickers have different degrees of skill. You pay the guy who has the most amount of skill. Most people don't realize how valuable good kickers are until they're gone.

Mike Brown was not going to pay both TJ and Chad. 9 million for a #2 receiver is absurd and everyone knows that. If your going to lose an offensive weapon like TJ, it's best to keep a kicker who can at least bail you out at times.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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A lot of people can kick field goals...but not a lot can do it when you need it or when you have 11 guys bearing down on you and 40,000 ppl yelling, makes it different.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by senormysterioso View Post
Behind every kicker is about 200 guys on the street that can do the job pretty much just as well. Sorry, but I subscribe to the Bill Parcells theory of kickers are completely disposable and not football players.
That's absolutely not true. Jason Hanson, the best kicker in 2008, was 96% on FGs. Shaun Shuisam, the worst kicker in 2008, was 72% on FGs. That is a huge difference. Those "200 guys on the street" are going to be at that low mark or worse. Yeah if you're happy with a 70% kicker than they're a dime a dozen, but there is a limited number of good kickers.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket View Post
I respect that opinion, but strongly disagree here. Kickers have different degrees of skill. You pay the guy who has the most amount of skill. Most people don't realize how valuable good kickers are until they're gone.

Mike Brown was not going to pay both TJ and Chad. 9 million for a #2 receiver is absurd and everyone knows that. If your going to lose an offensive weapon like TJ, it's best to keep a kicker who can at least bail you out at times.
TJ's biggest problem was he got it into his head he was a #1 type guy, which he isn't. He is a prototypical 2 guy and is very good at that. Is he good enough to warrant 10 million for one year? No.
Its simple enough, we will not spend money on a guy who is getting old and a #2 receiver, while we have a young talented guy waiting to get his shot.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengals78 View Post
TJ's biggest problem was he got it into his head he was a #1 type guy, which he isn't. He is a prototypical 2 guy and is very good at that. Is he good enough to warrant 10 million for one year? No.
Its simple enough, we will not spend money on a guy who is getting old and a #2 receiver, while we have a young talented guy waiting to get his shot.
Oh, but he is. There are a number of places that he could go to and easily be the best WR on the team.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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^ Being the best on the team does NOT make him a #1 guy worthy of #1 WR pay.

Don't believe me? Ask Donovan McNabb.
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