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View Poll Results: Who was better in a 4-3
Chiefs 56 50.00%
Broncos 10 8.93%
Packers 43 38.39%
All will be successful 3 2.68%
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Old 02-21-2009, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Default Which new 3-4 should have stayed 4-3

Packers, Chiefs, or Broncos?
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Old 02-21-2009, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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Packers will be fine, Broncos will start off slow in the 3-4, but after a while they will be fine too. The Chiefs will blow in the 3-4.
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Chiefs are kinda made for Tampa 2 :(
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Denver's got anyone on the roster who's really going to be helped by the transition. I know they've got a pretty good undersized pass rusher (forget his name but I know he went to Lousiville) but I remember when he was in the draft the consensus was he couldn't become a linebacker. D.J. is getting moved to a new position for the third time in his career which won't help, and who's gonna be the nose tackle?

Strikes me as a move thats gonna require a complete roster transition, I don't see the benefit.
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Packers definitely have more suited personnel for the 3-4 than Denver or Kansas City. Pickett can play the 0-gap NT spot, they have 3 or 4 guys well equipped to play the 5 technique DE. Hawk and Barnett I think can play in a two gap system. Denver and Kansas City are a mess up front, no one fits that defense.
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Denvers defense isn't going to be great anytime soon no matter what scheme they play but they don't have any major players who are a terrible fit. Glen Dorsey just in no way will fit as a 5 technique and he's definitely not a NT, and the fact that the Chiefs took him 5 overall last year makes their decision extremely questionable. Green Bay will be fine
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Right now the Chiefs have Dorsey, Tank Tyler, and Turk McBride which right there should be at least semi-decent. At LB really all we have is DJ to play inside. There are questions as to whether Tamba could play outside, but personally I think he can. Curry is most likely going to be starting next to DJ next year. I might be biased, but I don't think the Chiefs are that far away. Also, we have 30+ in cap room to go out and sign a couple people like a Chris Canty, Igor Olshansky, Channing Crowder, Bart Scott, Marques Cooper, Roosevelt Colvin, etc...

I don't really see what Denver has to work with. They could get Raji in the 1st, but if he's gone who's gonna be at nose? Marcus Thomas can fill in at one DE spot, but who's going to be on the other side. I have a hard time seeing D.J. Williams inside, but if he does who's going to play next to him. Webster is probably too small. Outside Dumervil is in the same boat as Tamba Hali. I guess Jarvis Moss could play on the other side, but how much did he even play last year?
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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Green Bay was the better 4-3 but I also think they have the most personnel as of now for the switch. Time will tell
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Old 02-21-2009, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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At least the Broncos have some good potential 34 OLBs in Crowder, Moss, Dumerville. Ryan McBean and Marcus Thomas could be fits at end. They lack even a true 43 nose tackle so thats their biggest question mark probably. I don't see any inside 'back possibilities on their roster, really, but I guess DJ will be playing there.

If I were the Broncos I'd be praying for Raji and if hes available at 8 I really think they should make a trade with the Jags to keep him from going to the Packers.

-

The Packers have a great secondary, so they are in solid shape defensively already, but Hawk and Barnett make at least an average inside 'backer team and Kampman will still be rushing the passer a lot.

Pickett can be a fit at NT, don't know if he'll be great, but he could get the job done. They've got some depth there too with Cole and Jolly (is he still on the team?) Looking like Harrell might find a spot at DE in a 34 there. To me it looks like the Packers are missing an OLB and a DE from at least having a full set of pieces to work with.

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The Chiefs have a nice young secondary, but more of a tampa-2 one, at least in terms of the corners. It'll be interesting to see what kind of schemes they use to suit their team. I think that if they are running any variation of the 34 next season it'll involve a massive amount of zone blitzing and look a lot different than a standard 34.

As for pieces in the front seven, Donnie Edwards has a lot of 34 experience inside with the Chargers despite being really undersized. DJ looks like he'll move inside as well. Tank Tyler has the strength to play the nose, but might not have the bulk right now. That could be fixed I guess though. Dorsey doesn't look like a fit anywhere, but I doubt the Chiefs even use anything like a standard 34 and he will basically be playing a wide tackle spot rather than an end spot on the line. Ron Edwards also has some experience in a 34 from his time with the Ravens. McBride seems undersized for an end in that scheme, but a lot of people had him pegged there going into the draft. Alfonso Boone might also be able to play end in a 34. Babin and Johnston look like they could be decent fits for a 34 while I don't think that Hali has the agility to be a linebacker or the ability to play end in a 34.

The Chiefs are going to have huge depth issues if they want to use a 34 this season and as far as I'm concerned, they are making a HUGE mistake if they try to run it this season unless they load up on players that are tailor made for the scheme through both the draft and free agency. That'll be hard to do though with the other teams switching as well and the other 10 34 defenses in the league looking to fill some spots as well.

Its not as easy to make the switch now that almost half the league is running it and I think that of these three teams, the Chiefs should have stayed with a 43 defense.
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Old 02-21-2009, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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I vote for the broncos to be different. I honestly don't see how any of us can predict who will be better in a 3-4. Both the Chiefs and Broncos got a new coach, and neither of them really have any 3-4 personal (obviously each team has a couple Linebackers who can make the switch). So basically it comes down to who drafts better. Meanwhile the packers have a bit of the 3-4 defense already, it'll still be a complicated switch (remember, you don't just need 7 starters, you need 7 back ups too - people get injured all the time).
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Old 02-21-2009, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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I'm behind the Chiefs as a 3-4. They had no rush at all last year (unless they played the Chargers, I think we gave them half their sacks...) so now they're trying to manufacture one with the scheme. Understandable philosophy and hopefully a good draft can fire the engine up for them.

I don't know what the Broncos are really thinking though. Something similar to the Chiefs but I think the Broncos are going to have a tougher time making the switch.
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Old 02-21-2009, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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I don't think it's official that the chiefs are switching just yet to a 3-4. They have Pendergast and Gibbs on D. Pendergast ran a 4-3 in AZ. Just because Pioli has drafted in the past for the 3-4 doesn't mean they are automatcially going to switch to it. I could see a transition, grabbing mid round picks of hybrid DE's, taller DT's etc. But signs right not point to staying 4-3.
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Old 02-21-2009, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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I don't think it's official that the chiefs are switching just yet to a 3-4. They have Pendergast and Gibbs on D. Pendergast ran a 4-3 in AZ. Just because Pioli has drafted in the past for the 3-4 doesn't mean they are automatcially going to switch to it. I could see a transition, grabbing mid round picks of hybrid DE's, taller DT's etc. But signs right not point to staying 4-3.
Adam Schefter reported the Chiefs will be switching to the 3-4.

http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/02/18/what...chiefs-dorsey/
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Old 02-21-2009, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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The chiefs are really wasting the talent they have with the switch. Dorsey and Tyler are young and have potential as a pair of DT's, they'll be less effective as 3-4 ends. Tamba is a not enough of an athlete to be a linebacker, but he has had a good year at end when paired next to a good player. And what one of theie linebackers is going to be in a better position in a 3-4? If they had anyone able to blitz well they wouldn't have had such a weak pass rush last year.

I wouldn't be suprised if they scrap the transition in camp, or run similarly to Arizona last year where they did a fair bit of both.
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Old 02-21-2009, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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thats Schefter. Once they hire Romeo Crennel as DC or announce it or something then I will believe it. They could run a hyrbid or somethig next year. So its all specualtive at this point.
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Old 02-21-2009, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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The chiefs are really wasting the talent they have with the switch. Dorsey and Tyler are young and have potential as a pair of DT's, they'll be less effective as 3-4 ends. Tamba is a not enough of an athlete to be a linebacker, but he has had a good year at end when paired next to a good player. And what one of theie linebackers is going to be in a better position in a 3-4? If they had anyone able to blitz well they wouldn't have had such a weak pass rush last year.

I wouldn't be suprised if they scrap the transition in camp, or run similarly to Arizona last year where they did a fair bit of both.
Zona ran 4-3 80% of the time.
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Old 02-21-2009, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Zona ran 4-3 80% of the time.
That much? I thought it was closer to 70%. Either way I think KC will realize that the players they have and want to work with fit the 4-3 better.
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Old 02-21-2009, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Denver is the only team out of those three that should be experimenting with their D. The Chiefs and the Packers each have a lot of good young players invested in on the defensive side that I'm not sure fit in a 3-4. Chiefs: Dorsey, Johnson, Hali. Packers: Hawk, Kampmann, Harrell. It just seems like a potential waste to me.
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Old 02-21-2009, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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I think that the Broncos somewhat have the speed to do so, so they shouldn't have that big of a problem, if any at all.

The Packers are in a good position to improve it in the draft this year, because they should have the opportunity to draft a stud pass rusher or a stud nose tackle, so they should have a good start.

The Chiefs, if they draft Curry should have a good start, but I don't think that they have the right personnel other than that, and they would have to move Dorsey to the 3-4 end, which is either going to be a great move or a horrible move.

I think all teams should make a decent transition, but if I had to pick one to struggle, it would be the Chiefs.
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Old 02-21-2009, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Pendergast has no knowledge of the 3-4 i dont see why they even hired him
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Old 02-21-2009, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ho0k Em' View Post
Right now the Chiefs have Dorsey, Tank Tyler, and Turk McBride which right there should be at least semi-decent. At LB really all we have is DJ to play inside. There are questions as to whether Tamba could play outside, but personally I think he can. Curry is most likely going to be starting next to DJ next year. I might be biased, but I don't think the Chiefs are that far away. Also, we have 30+ in cap room to go out and sign a couple people like a Chris Canty, Igor Olshansky, Channing Crowder, Bart Scott, Marques Cooper, Roosevelt Colvin, etc...

I don't really see what Denver has to work with. They could get Raji in the 1st, but if he's gone who's gonna be at nose? Marcus Thomas can fill in at one DE spot, but who's going to be on the other side. I have a hard time seeing D.J. Williams inside, but if he does who's going to play next to him. Webster is probably too small. Outside Dumervil is in the same boat as Tamba Hali. I guess Jarvis Moss could play on the other side, but how much did he even play last year?
Glenn Dorsey is a 3 technique who will be out of position as long as he is asked to play 2 gaps in the 5 technique. Derrick Johnson is about as bad a fit at 3-4 ILB as you can have for a guy that big. He doesn't do well with blocks and will struggle with a guard not being covered up by a DT. Tyler can play NT but he's not a longterm answer, they still need a real NT. McBride I think can play the 5 technique, but it's still TBD if he's gonna be a starter in the NFL and succeed. Hali isn't a great fit at 3-4 OLB but I think he's versatile enough to play there. KC needs at least 2 more starting DL and 3 new LBs. That's all but 2 guys in their front seven that need to be overhauled, not including Dorsey who is a bad fit and Hali who isn't a perfect fit either. KC is much more fit for a cover 2 defense, and there is nothing farther away from a true 3-4 than a cover 2 or a tampa 2.
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Old 02-21-2009, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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All three have a ton of work to do IMO. I'm not sure any of them are any better suited then the other.
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Old 02-21-2009, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Glenn Dorsey is a 3 technique who will be out of position as long as he is asked to play 2 gaps in the 5 technique. Derrick Johnson is about as bad a fit at 3-4 ILB as you can have for a guy that big. He doesn't do well with blocks and will struggle with a guard not being covered up by a DT. Tyler can play NT but he's not a longterm answer, they still need a real NT. McBride I think can play the 5 technique, but it's still TBD if he's gonna be a starter in the NFL and succeed. Hali isn't a great fit at 3-4 OLB but I think he's versatile enough to play there. KC needs at least 2 more starting DL and 3 new LBs. That's all but 2 guys in their front seven that need to be overhauled, not including Dorsey who is a bad fit and Hali who isn't a perfect fit either. KC is much more fit for a cover 2 defense, and there is nothing farther away from a true 3-4 than a cover 2 or a tampa 2.
Warren Sapp(only comparison I can think of) was a 3 tech also, and albiet he's one of the best DT's of all time he fared alright in Oakland. Dorsey might not have the ideal height, and it might not be his best position, but there are plenty of 6'2/6'3 3-4 DE's in the league. What makes Derrick Johnson a bad fit at ILB. Shedding blocks might have been his biggest knock, but he has never had a problem with it. Tyler looks the part, and we won't know if he can hold it down until he actually plays. If we don't get a Canty or Olshansky this year in FA than I really wouldn't consider making the switch. So I look at like this if we get another DE(Canty,Olshansky), Curry, and another Rushbacker maybe two(If Hali doesn't work out) and we're good.
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by fenikz View Post
Pendergast has no knowledge of the 3-4 i dont see why they even hired him
At this point we don't know why either the Chiefs have still not come out and said who will be the DC some thing is up but who knows what I think they are still trying to get Romeo Crennel.

That being said I don't feel the Chiefs will just dive all in to the 3-4 it will be a slow transition IMO.
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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The Chiefs had all the tools to be an amazing tampa 2 defense. Huge mistake going to the 3-4.
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